Religion
Related: About this forumWhat would the world look like with no religion or no belief in any gods?
No crusades were ever fought, no inquisition, no ten commandments, and no churches or mosques. MLK would not have been a reverend.
What do you think?
sinkingfeeling
(51,461 posts)more peaceful. The people would respect nature and the environment and all forms of life would have value (no, go and dominate the earth). I think education would be held in higher esteem and people would be free to think clearly and logically, without that authoritarian god making all their moral decisions for them.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)and living by logic and learning
and of course at peace.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)I think we are somewhat hard wired to create myths when we can't otherwise explain what is going on around us, but it's nice to think about the possibility.
SoutherDem
(2,307 posts)I do wonder if he would have marched in the streets without religion, not because his religion gave him the strength but because without religion we may not have needed to.
Religion was used to support slavery and to support separation of races, just as it has to defend women being less than men and homosexuality as a choice and a sin.
humblebum
(5,881 posts)And it wasn't really all that great, because the problem wasn't religion, nor belief in gods. The problem was people.
It's been tried before.
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)Greed, stupidity, aggression, jealousy and a host of other unpleasant things--as well as the good stuff like empathy, selflessness, etc. Which is to say: as an Atheist, I'm not going to fool myself into believing that erasing religion would magically make us better beings, any more than I'm going to believe having religion magically makes us better beings. The evidence is really against either being true.
We would, however, be very different creatures if we examine exactly how to unilaterally get rid of any belief in gods or religion. Because, as any wise atheist will tell you, what causes people to believe in such is not so easy to get rid of without getting rid of other things useful for human survival and evolution. For example: Superstition. Our tendency to make the post-hoc-ergo-proper-hoc mistake. We pray for rain, it rains, ergo our prayer caused the rain (and by extension, something listened to the prayer and gave us the rain). Getting rid of this would seem to be a good thing, but what about this: we stick our hand in a fire, it burns, therefore fire burns and we shouldn't stick our hand in it. Can we get rid of the superstitious post-hoc reasoning without getting rid of the logical post-hoc reasoning? I'm not so sure--and we kinda need the logical one for survival.
All animals have this, by the way. Your dog won't stick his paw in the fire either. The big difference between animals and humans with post-hoc reasoning is that we take it to ridiculous lengths. So...get rid of the part of our brains that takes it to ridiculous lengths? That gets rid of our ability to come up with scientific theories--which we may prove right or wrong later, but we need to have that wild post-hoc imagining in order to come up with them at all. So, might not be a good thing to get rid of it.
And how about our need to anthropomorphize. This is part of why we create gods: that tree bark looks like a human face; so that tree must be something human like as well as tree-like, so it can understand us if we talk to it. It might communicate our wishes to the other trees...etc. Why is this a good thing? Well, if we couldn't recognize human elements in animals we wouldn't be kind to them (even if--yet again--this often leads to big mistakes like thinking the bear isn't going to eat us). Our desire to travel to other planets is based, in part, on our belief that another "us" is on them. On seeing a man in the moon.
And, I'm afraid that if we weren't able to create religions or gods we'd also have a real problem when it came to art and literature. No Superman. Because you see, when it gets right down to it, all gods are superhero stories. Stories of beings who have amazing adventures, do amazing things that we want to do, but can't, and who can protect and save us from the scary world. It may not be a good thing for us to imagine such when it comes to organized religion, but I'd really hate to do without Saturday morning cartoons. The part of our imagination leads to gods also leads to other nifty, entertaining and, frankly, enlightening stuff.
Putting it another way, while it's possible for individuals (atheists) to have all this and *not* believe in gods or religion, it's very difficult for humankind as a species to have all this and not create gods or religion. We'd have to be other than what we are to erase religion/gods from the collective human psyche. The only other scenario is getting everyone to keep all this, but to all think like atheists. Which puts us back at sentence #1: you don't get rid of the greed, jealousy, pettiness, aggression, or, alas, stupidity. So, I'm not sure our history would have been that much different. We'd just have been more honest. Instead of saying, "We're going to war to protect god's city from the infidel!" we'd say, "They've got gold, spices, and other good stuff, and we want that." And when we tortured and burned people we wouldn't say "We're saving their souls!" we'd say, "We enjoy watching people tortured and burned to death."
Getting rid of gods and religion doesn't get rid of human nature, just the excuses we use for doing what our human nature wants to do.
raccoon
(31,111 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)sinkingfeeling
(51,461 posts)I am not convinced that human nature consists of greed, stupidity, aggression, jealousy, and superstition. I think that greed, aggression, jealousy, etc. are learned behaviors and are not innate in humans.
Most of the christian god is based on the idea that man is evil (sinful) and must be 'saved'. One of the reasons I cannot accept that religion.
demosincebirth
(12,541 posts)and envy. And all the other "good" things we do and feel.
sinkingfeeling
(51,461 posts)demosincebirth
(12,541 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)No wars, no conflict, no assholes. I mean, just look how well organizations and communities who don't embrace religion or gods work. We have a group here that is a shining example of the beauty and love that just explodes when there is no god.
Everything would be just perfect!!
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Of religiousity.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)eqfan592
(5,963 posts)More like a shining example of PURE UNFILTERED AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!1!!!!1!!!!!one!!!!1!!
Response to eqfan592 (Reply #10)
cbayer This message was self-deleted by its author.
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)But then you really went low. Kinda taken aback right now to be honest.
Response to eqfan592 (Reply #12)
cbayer This message was self-deleted by its author.
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)My statement does reflect on innocent bystanders and that is wrong of me.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)your biases are on display. Sorry, I've never really had a problem with you, and still don't, but you should not continue as a host here.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)about another group or other members?
Not sure all hosts can make that claim.
Sorry, I am angry right now about something that has nothing to do with you. I will back down.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)As this forum is explicitly for theists and non-theists, your continuing here as host is, in my opinion, wrong.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I do, on the other hand, have strong feelings about a group and how it is being run. I also have some strong negative feelings about some individuals. However, if you knew me, you would know that that makes me even more circumspect about how I manage any authority I may have in this group.
It is not in my job description to be neutral or withhold my personal feelings when posting as an individual member, however.
I apologize for making a statement that could be construed as reflecting negatively on innocent bystanders, including you. I will delete it.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)CrispyQ
(36,478 posts)As a collective, the human species is about two years old right now. Will we survive into our three's? Who knows, but we have some hard, hard lessons ahead, regardless.
demosincebirth
(12,541 posts)deities. Religion, good or bad, helped form the civilization we have today...whether you like it or not.
mr blur
(7,753 posts)demosincebirth
(12,541 posts)sinkingfeeling
(51,461 posts)that folks in the 'Religion' group don't want to disscuss it. They seem only to want everyone who does not share their dogma to go away. After all, we're from a 'cesspool' and the 'ugliest place' on DU.
rug
(82,333 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Was there one?
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)laconicsax
(14,860 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)laconicsax
(14,860 posts)Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Damn them all to hell.