What sorts of things might replace religion?

[GliderGuider]

What qualities of religion do you feel are important, and what do you think might adequately replace the role religion currently has at a personal and social level?

[Warren Stupidity]

1. what is it that religion provides that you think needs to be preserved?

[GliderGuider]

6. A sense of deep emotional connection to something much greater than the self?

A sense of transcendence? A sense of place and meaning in an enormous universe?

Those are what I see as the important things religion brings to the table. It's possible to have them all without a belief in a objectified, patriarchal god, or the oppressive structures that usually accrete around it, of course.

On the other hand, structure in the context of transcendence seems to be very important to humans at some level too, or it wouldn't have appeared as one of our earliest social inventions.

Have we evolved beyond such emotional needs? If not, what else might fill them, in your opinion?

[Warren Stupidity]

7. I think religion exploits those needs.

"It's possible to have them all without a belief in a objectified, patriarchal god, or the oppressive structures that usually accrete around it, of course."

So religion is not required, and thus does not provide those things, instead religion is associated with those things in an accidental rather than a substantial way.

[GliderGuider]

8. So if the needs are legitimate

but the cost of filling them through current Western religions is too high, what else might fill them?

[Warren Stupidity]

20. Again religion doesn't provide it exploits.

What I am saying is that people freed from the authoritarian paternalistic irrational framework of organized religion will discover their own paths to living a good life. The answer is "nothing". The answer is "everything".

[ManyShadesOf]

29. E: All of the above

Great discussion. But there's the assumption that everyone believes in the same form of God. Or that God even has a form. No. And not all religions are described here. So are we talking about religion or paternalistic Christianity?

[ladjf]

18. I didn't understand the original post to be asking what about religion

would need to be replaced . Rather, what type of behavior might replace religious behavior? My guess was that objective thinking might become the main mode of acquiring wisdom and creating a world view based on reality rather than fantasy.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. I disagree.

What qualities of religion do you feel are important, and what do you think might adequately replace the role religion currently has at a personal and social level?

I think this second question implies that religion provides something important that would need to be replaced should religion go away.

As I stated above I disagree with this assertion. I think religion exploits rather than provides, and is not essential to our lives. In fact as religion is almost invariably associated with authoritarian paternalistic irrational world views, what it brings to society is in my view entirely negative.

[cbayer]

21. While that may be true for you, could you consider that it is not true for everyone?

[Warren Stupidity]

24. I've seen kids convinced they couldn't ride without training wheels.

Didn't make it true, but they sure thought it was.

[cbayer]

25. I'm not sure that answers my questions.

If you see religion as only a crutch, I can see how you reach that conclusion.

OTOH, religion has been a tool for many - art, music, architecture, a way to survive in desperate separations, a source of strength.

While I have no doubt all of those things can be gotten by some without any religious input at all, I'm not sure that applies to all.

[ladjf]

27. I missed the second part of the question. nt

[ManyShadesOf]

30. It provides ritual, symbols, stories,

ways for people to approach the unknown

[daaron]

2. This sort of thing -->

[daaron]

34. Not cute enough for you?

Replace religion with THIS:

[Iggo]

3. Reason.

[BiggJawn]

4. Alcoholism and Shizophrenia

Well, why not? I've known many drunks who replaced alcohol with Jeebus as their drug of choice.

[WingDinger]

5. Masses of opiates? Or is that opiates for the masses.

[cbayer]

9. I'm not sure there is much that can replace religion on an individual basis,

but there are things that could replace some aspects on an institutional level.

There are some functions performed by religious groups and organizations that should be the purview of the government, but aren't adequately performed by them. Services for the homeless, mentally ill, chemically dependent come to mind. And then there are social justice movements in which religious groups often play a part. There are, of course, secular groups that do this as well.

Statistics show that many are leaving the churches of their childhood but not necessarily their religion. The more important question, imo, is whether they will seek out alternative organizations and what will these organizations look like.

[skepticscott]

11. So how do you reconcile this statement

with the obvious fact that many individuals HAVE given up religion, and HAVE found things to replace it that allow them to live meaningful, fulfilling, productive lives?

I expect you'll refuse to answer in any substantial way, if at all, but your point of view, frankly, is condescending and insulting.

[laconicsax]

44. I think she has you on ignore.

You probably asked too many "gotcha" questions like "what do you mean?" and "what do you think about this?"

[GliderGuider]

12. I think in general you're right, but

I see society being stuffed with secular organizations that can fill social needs - religious organizations are much less important in this area than they used to be, though as secular society becomes more closed-off and mean-spirited that role may return.

There are ways that individuals can fill the emotional needs I talked about above, but they tend to be obscured in a society that thinks of this issue primarily in mainstream religious terms. There is little guidance in the West on how to find transcendence and that sense of connection to the ineffable outside of religion. When people try to do it, they tend to fall into religion-like structures like New Age.

There are options, though. Various Buddhist sanghas can give one a "community of mutually supportive seekers", and if it's a version of engaged Buddhism there is a strong social/ecological outreach component as well.

On the personal level it takes a willingness to live outside the box, but it can be found. I'm a fan of various meditative non-dualist approaches, especially jnana yoga and Advaita, because they're quite accessible to a recovering positivist like me.

[cbayer]

13. I would be glad to see both secular and purely governmental agencies

take over some of the social functions that religious organizations often provide.

I agree with you and have taken what I want or need from various religions at various points in my life.

Interesting statistics from prisons I read recently show that religion plays a significant role in social groups within those facilities. What do you make of that?

[GliderGuider]

15. To that I would say

Religion is the closest thing they are being offered to what they really need. I have a suspicion that meditation classes and satsangs would be equally if not more effective. There are two problems. First, nobody in a prison administration or government knows what a 'satsang" is and why it might be useful. Second, the prison system runs on judgement, which religions support to a hell-fire "T". Non-judgmental forms of spirituality need not apply. Not yet, anyway.

Some experiments with meditation and Buddhist teachings in prisons have been quite successful, I've heard.

[cbayer]

28. There's also the humbling feeling that people get when

they believe there is something greater than themselves.

[ManyShadesOf]

31. Many are being forced out of their churches

by a rise of Fundamentalist Christians taking over Protestant churches booting out longtimers. See ya!!

[demosincebirth]

10. Starring at the moon.

[AndyTiedye]

35. Dancing Under the Stars

[dimbear]

14. Not Siri herself, but her descendants.

The omniscient advisor.

[GliderGuider]

16. Sort of a GoogleGod?

Hmmm...

[ladjf]

17. The first and best thing would be the return of natural objective thinking. nt

[GliderGuider]

32. Human beings aren't terribly good at that.

One of my favourite quotes is that humans are not rational creatures, we're rationalizing creatures. We make most decisions based on unconscious, emotionally charged scripts and then dress the decisions up after the fact with rational-sounding justifications.

Religion addresses our emotional triggers (or exploits them in WarrenStupidity's terms) in ways that tend to be ignored by rational paradigms like science. The only other social structure that works in a way similar to religion in this regard is politics. And politics, like religion, is about the human herding instinct - groupthink and conformity - coupled with a deference to hierarchy and authority.

[ladjf]

36. I agree with your assertions. But, the question was, what would likely

replace religion. My answer is "a return to objective thinking". That is
the natural mode of survival thinking used by all animals except humans.

Our talent for abstract thinking has led us to believe fantastic things about our Universe and ourselves that are dangerously removed from reality.

[GliderGuider]

38. OK, that clarifies it a bit.

So are you saying we'll find some way to shut off our capability for abstract thought? That seems less somewhat likely than everyone taking up meditation.

[ladjf]

39. No, I definitely didn't mean to stop thinking abstractly. I meant, that

in the absence of a lifetime of being told fairy tales as the truth, the human brain would allow people to develop real wisdom, based on objective observation. But still, it would be a challenge to keep your
egos in check.

We need to be glad we are alive, realize our fortunate gift, protect our
ecosystem for our own best interest, realize the destructiveness of
out of control greed and begin to notice how life can be, including the loving connections with all life.

About 20,000 years of that kind of thinking and this Earth would be
a wonderful place to live rather than eking out an existence while
the successful hoarders and/or inheritors squander any and everything with reckless abandon.

The wrong people are running the World and religious thinking is making that possible by training people to believe in superstitious
notions.

[Angry Dragon]

22. intelligent reasoning

[ladjf]

37. Yes, like the other animals do in order to survive and in some cases,

enjoy living.

[longship]

23. Drinking Skeptically?

[rrneck]

26. I'm having trouble thinking of something that couldn't do it.

People seem to spontaneously seek some sort of transcendence in everything they do. What can't be turned into a religion? All you need is a good "eternity narrative" to wrap around something at least a few people like or fear and you're off and running.

Replacing existing religions has more to do with marketing, economics, and political power than transcendence.

[GliderGuider]

33. The similarities between religion, politics and marketing in general are striking.

That's probably why there's such a close coupling between religion and faith-based politics of the more authoritarian sort.

[ladjf]

40. It all boils down to whether ones "World view" is created by objective

observation or subject belief in fairy tales,myths and superstition.
The later is a recipe for early extinction. We are headed down that path as fast as the 1% can push us. (and themselves , as well).
(Religion is one of their tools.)

[rrneck]

41. Speaking of tools...

So are about 90% of the consumer goods we buy. And they are the fruits of objective reality through technology, not religion.

[ladjf]

42. Consumer goods themselves are not neccessarily a bad influence on

the human race. However, like with anything else, over consumption leads to serious problems. The basic formula is that sum of ones consumption should not exceed the sum of their production.

[rrneck]

43. True that,

and I think it holds true for emotions as well.

That's one of the primary functions of religion - group cohesion. It prompts people to sacrifice for the group. There was a time when one's membership in a group might require them to give their life in its defense. How many people do you think would die for their country today, much less for their religion? And as far as I'm concerned, there is no difference between devotion to a sports team and a religion.

We have created so many outlets for our emotional attachments we don't know what to make of them. The greatest threat to our culture is probably anomie, not religion or its lack of it. Our emotions are no longer used to help us survive, they're just entertainment - another result of our embarrassment of riches.