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MineralMan

(146,336 posts)
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 04:04 PM Nov 2018

When people discuss religion in general they sometimes speak of theism.

When things get down to brass tacks, though, religious beliefs are non-inclusive. Most religions take themselves to be the only correct religion. The other religions are wrong. It doesn't really matter which religion one follows. That one is the correct one. The others are in error.

And that goes right down to the denomination level. Denominations form after disputes with a parent denomination. There are protestant denominations that believe that Catholicism, for example, is not true Christianity. In fact, some think no branch of Christianity is correct except their own denomination.

And then, Islam, which worships the same basic deity, is either horrible or the only true religion, depending on whether you are Muslim or not a Muslim.

How does any of that make sense? Where is the logic? If an all-powerful, all-knowing deity cannot get its followers to agree, then one has to wonder about those attributes, I'd think. Instead we have warfare and longstanding hatreds. None of that makes any sense at all.

Still, all of the theistic religions think that atheists are wrong. In that, they have common ground. Atheists reciprocate.

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When people discuss religion in general they sometimes speak of theism. (Original Post) MineralMan Nov 2018 OP
That is exactly what I feel and have said to others. Doreen Nov 2018 #1
Well, some people believe that religions benefit humanity. MineralMan Nov 2018 #2
Religion wants to take credit for altruism thbobby Nov 2018 #5
Sure. Altruism is a natural. MineralMan Nov 2018 #7
Religion wants to take credit for anything that's positive Major Nikon Nov 2018 #16
I have never noticed any benefit. Doreen Nov 2018 #9
Some religious groups do beneficial things. MineralMan Nov 2018 #10
I do realize some groups do beneficial things but Doreen Nov 2018 #13
That's wonderful. Thank you and your mother. MineralMan Nov 2018 #14
If you want the bare truth about how politics and hate effect people Doreen Nov 2018 #15
It's actually a negative outcome Major Nikon Nov 2018 #17
Seems to be mostly Christians who call other Christians fake Major Nikon Nov 2018 #3
Hmm...monetizing atheism? Nah. MineralMan Nov 2018 #4
For one thing there's nothing of even perceived value atheism can offer Major Nikon Nov 2018 #6
That's true enough. MineralMan Nov 2018 #8
... Major Nikon Nov 2018 #11
LOL! And so true. MineralMan Nov 2018 #12

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
1. That is exactly what I feel and have said to others.
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 04:14 PM
Nov 2018

I come up each time with the grand conclusion that religion sucks!!

thbobby

(1,474 posts)
5. Religion wants to take credit for altruism
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 04:25 PM
Nov 2018

But there is a genetic explanation for altruism. The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins explains that when Survival of the Fittest is considered in reference to genes as well as individuals, altruism is selected for.

MineralMan

(146,336 posts)
7. Sure. Altruism is a natural.
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 04:32 PM
Nov 2018

Without it, humans would never have survived to overpopulate the planet. It's the underlying principle of reciprocity. I help you. You'll help me. We can survive that way. Early humans who didn't have that impulse did not survive to reproduce.

It could have evolved from the maternal instinct that most mammals and many other animals exhibit. We can't survive infancy and childhood without help. So, that instinct evolved out of the necessity to survive and reproduce.

Those organisms that had it survived to reproduce. Those without it did not.

Nothing to do with religion, which developed much later.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
16. Religion wants to take credit for anything that's positive
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 10:36 PM
Nov 2018

...while simultaneously denying responsibility for anything that's negative. Kinda funny how that works, but fortunately humor is a gift from Jesus.

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
9. I have never noticed any benefit.
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 04:41 PM
Nov 2018

I think that all of the people who claim to be helping others because of their religion would be the type of people who would help others even if they did not have a religion.

It is amazing that all of these religions are "supposed" to teach love and acceptance but that is the last thing they have.

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
13. I do realize some groups do beneficial things but
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 04:53 PM
Nov 2018

as I said the people who do those beneficial things are the type who would have done those things without religion. I know many people ( including myself ) who do not have any religion guiding them to help.

My mothers church feeds the homeless one Saturday a month and I help on that Saturday despite the fact I do not belong to the church. There are other groups that feed on the other Saturdays and they are not church groups. I also do other occasional volunteering with the other groups if they fall short and need help without religious bases for the help.

MineralMan

(146,336 posts)
14. That's wonderful. Thank you and your mother.
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 04:55 PM
Nov 2018

I agree that it's not the religion. It's the individual people.

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
15. If you want the bare truth about how politics and hate effect people
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 05:03 PM
Nov 2018

talk to the homeless. Yes, some of them may be scary but usually that is because for some stupid reason they can not get the mental health help that they need. Most of them are really nice people and you can learn a lot from them.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
17. It's actually a negative outcome
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 10:43 PM
Nov 2018

Organized religion skims right off the top by fleecing the flock. When one considers all the resources wasted in the effort which could go to actually helping people, you start to understand the charitable part is really more of a PR move intended to convince the weak minded to part with their resources. It's estimated the Mormon church only gives about 1-2% of it's multi-billion $ take to genuinely charitable causes and the RCC isn't far behind.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
3. Seems to be mostly Christians who call other Christians fake
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 04:23 PM
Nov 2018

What differentiates organized religion with atheism is the profit motive. Organized religion is a business that has no shortage of competition. The market strategy of that business generally relies on the denigration of the completion coupled with the conveniently unverifiable promise of reward and punishment.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
6. For one thing there's nothing of even perceived value atheism can offer
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 04:30 PM
Nov 2018

Even if there were it's hard to compete with a business model that collects money while offering nothing material in return.

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