Langston on the Validity of Christian Conversions from Atheism

[EddieA]

August 30, 2018
by Jonathan MS Pearce

I recently posted the first in a series of articles concerning some research by Joseph Langston into conversions from atheism to Christianity. As he predicted, and as you can see from his writing here below, a kickback from atheists was on the cards.

I fully understand why atheists will push back on claims of atheist to Christian conversion. At the end of the day, we all think we come to any belief through rational reason. But we are psychological beings. Any belief is invariably arrived at with at least a combination of psychological determinants. When we, as atheists, proclaim the rational high ground and claim that we are correct (as anyone will obviously do), when someone leaves this position, then they cannot be doing it for rational reasons. Therefore, we, as atheists, claim they can’t have been “proper atheists” because, otherwise, they would still be believing in the atheistic proposition. A “proper atheist” simply cannot leave atheism properly. They must have some lesser or nefarious reasons for doing so. It is an example of cognitive dissonance, arguably.

Of course, the retorts to this would be that since atheism is clearly correct for X, Y and Z reasons, and if they can’t show that these propositions to be untrue, then they must be being irrational.

Joseph Langston was answering this comment from Kevin K:

So, they’ve searched the internet and have come up with 100-odd “I used to be an atheist” stories. Not to be harsh, but have they considered that many of those narratives come from Liars for Jesus™? The chicken-dinner circuit is chock-a-block full of “I used to be” Christian preachers.

Not saying that true conversions don’t happen … just that I’m doubtful that this type of research is informative in any way.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/tippling/2018/08/30/langston-on-the-validity-of-christian-conversions-from-atheism/

[Girard442]

1. From the article: "Most were not atheists in an intellectual sense, they were merely hedonists."

I am an atheist in the intellectual sense. I tried being a hedonist, but I discovered, much to my sorrow, that I wasn't very good at it.

[EddieA]

2. Practice makes perfect.

[Duppers]

14. hedonism is a good thing??

Trump is good at it.

Fans of Ayn Rand would agree.

[brooklynite]

12. I'm definitely a hedonist...

...but since I never was shown evidence that a god exists, I don't have to "become" an atheist to overcome my apparent sinful guilt.

[MineralMan]

15. In my lifetime, I've known quite a few atheists. None of them were

hedonists. Rather, they were all good thinkers and logical people, with a strong sense of responsibility for others.

Maybe the author of that article was meeting a poor sort of atheist. I don't know.

[Pope George Ringo II]

3. TL;DR version: A handful of people made a mistake, and some of them may even be honest.

“The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means a necessity of life.”

― George Bernard Shaw, Androcles and the Lion

[EddieA]

4. Few opinions are worthwhile when the effort to read has been abandoned.

"Those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything."

[Pope George Ringo II]

5. Always underfoot, aren't you?

Look, a handful of people made a mistake, and they waste words by the bushel meandering around to no purpose. There's some point to at least wondering about why these people screwed up, but that's not part of the article. Explain the mistake, don't just assure us that literally dozens (DOZENS!) of people made it.

Honestly, an argumentum ad populum at least relies on a "many" part, and you don't even have that. It's quite pathetic.

[Pope George Ringo II]

25. They're your claims of converted atheists. That means it's your burden to prove the numbers

Seriously. Your argumentum ad populum was pretty pathetic on its face, but you can't just wimp out and start demanding other people prove your nonsense is wrong if you won't even pretend to support it.

And just in case you're wondering, the rug resemblance is strong enough that this is where you're getting put on ignore. You're not really bringing anything to the table on any level.

[Rob H.]

34. I wish rug (if he *is* still here somewhere) knew how to quit us

At this point it’s just sad.

[MineralMan]

37. Actually, he is still here. He just blocked me from the

Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity group last night. I got a DU Mail notification of it. How interesting!

[Rob H.]

38. That *is* interesting

Weird that you got blocked not long after you started confronting a belligerent, condescending poster who made a beeline for this group practically as soon as he got here. Strange how that works. Hmm....

[MineralMan]

39. That's actually not weird at all.

In fact, it's all too common an occurrence. However, I have learned that rug is no longer a host in that group.

[Rob H.]

45. Good to know that he's no longer a host

Blocking other people and creating numerous sock puppets while being flagged should be grounds to take the flagging all the way to an outright ban, imo.

Edit: Just took a quick look and you’re not blocked any more, either.

[Rob H.]

35. I really like this quote

“A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.”

- Friedrich Nietzsche

[Pope George Ringo II]

36. A favorite as well.

Yet we still have lunatics claiming that their beliefs supersede reality.

[MineralMan]

6. I have no doubt that there are people who have said they were atheists,

but who later became Christians, or Muslims, or Buddhists. I have never met such a person, but it's a big world out there. I wouldn't question their conversion. Religion is a personal matter. I might wonder internally how that person though of atheism and what the word meant to him or her, but I'd certainly accept their conversion.

Each person decides what he or she is able to or wants to believe. It's not really any of my business. So if someone who claimed to be an atheist becomes religious, I would just accept that change in that person's thinking. Still, I've never met anyone who went in that direction, although I've met many previously religious people who have become atheists. I'm thinking the number of converted atheists is quite small, percentage-wise.

I think that about covers it.

[3Hotdogs]

7. I'm retired and looking for extra income. How much $$$$$$$ can i make if i become a Christian?

I don't want to make $$$. I want to make at least $$$$$$$.


I would appreciate any guidance you can offer.

[MineralMan]

8. Well, if you become a Christian, I'd suggest one of the fundamentalist

denominations. That way, you could become a minister without a lot of training and open your own church. If you can come up with some good sermons, passing the plate during services could generate some cash for you. If you look online, you'll find many sermons all written and available for you to use.

Since you'll only have to work a few hours a week, it's an ideal job for a retired guy.

[Pope George Ringo II]

9. The catholics do a more efficient job of conning people, though.

That whole thing where they build one church and then run a couple of dozen scams a week out of it is a really productive use of their dwindling resources, and they've honed their business model in a way the spin-offs really haven't. Also, they've got a heck of a retirement plan and they'll really go to bat for you if you ever have a problem with law enforcement.

Still, you'll never be your own boss there. And I'm not quite clear on if their priests are actually required to engage in pedophilia, or if it's simply encouraged.

[MineralMan]

10. Still, becoming a Catholic Priest requires long training.

For a retired person, it doesn't seem to me to be a great choice. No...I'd rent some empty storefront and open up a "Bible-Believing Church of the Savior." Things might start off slowly, but if you can preach the Word with zeal and speak the words people want to hear, they will come.

[Pope George Ringo II]

11. You might be right.

Catholics require all that training to at least try to keep all that insane nonsense straight. Look at some of the utter gibberish some of the less well-trained catholics will put out when trying to argue for their religion.

[Pope George Ringo II]

24. Ask Martin Luther. The scams are neither new, nor secret.

[Mariana]

13. It helps if you make yourself out to have been

an utterly horrible person pre-conversion. That's much more impressive than if you say you were a normal decent law-abiding person who just didn't believe in any gods, and had some experience that changed your mind.

It doesn't matter if your claims about your former life are true or if they make sense. So, tell 'em you were a drunken drug-addicted promiscuous homosexual devil-worshiping animal sacrificing god-hating liberal flag-burning devout evolutionist communist atheist before you became a Christian.

[Mariana]

27. ...

[MineralMan]

40. LOL!

[Mariana]

41. He's gone already? Oh well.

[MineralMan]

42. Gone in that incarnation, anyhow.

Reincarnation is possible, though, some believe.

[marylandblue]

29. It's more like ex-seminarians boasting of their pedophilia

[marylandblue]

31. He's already in jail

[marylandblue]

16. Prosperity Gospel works best

Invest in a nice suit and rent some space in a nice hall. Take out ads saying that the reknowned Honorable Right Reverend Dr. Hotdogs, PhD will be preaching The Word on Sunday. In your sermon, tell people God will bless you if you contribute to the church. Hand out a collection plate.

Use the money you collect to buy an even nicer suit. Wear the suit at the next Sunday service and explain that God has blessed you just in the past week. Tell them a story about Mrs. Smith who was feeling sick last week, but now feels better. And Mr. Jones who found Jesus, stopped gambling and won $1000 in the lottery to pay off his gambling debt. Hand out the collection plate.

Repeat ad libitum.

[MineralMan]

17. Excellent advice. If you keep doing this, your congregation

will even buy you an executive jet for flights to your "mission compound" on Aruba. Prosperity gospel preachers can become very prosperous, indeed.

[Lordquinton]

18. What are your thoughts on this article?

What is your reason for posting it?

It seems rather broad and just a discussion of the whole process of conversion. Really out of context, especially for someone new to the group.

[MineralMan]

43. I'm afraid the poster will be unable to answer.

Pity, that...

[Lordquinton]

44. Like most religious mysteries

We will just have to live with not knowing until the afterlife.

[MineralMan]

46. LOL!