Is Faith All That Matters? Really?

[MineralMan]

For some, it looks like everything is OK as long as someone has faith in some religious belief or another. Faith in whatever deity or list of deities. Faith in whatever institution, denomination or sect is pretty much the same as faith in any other, according to what some say.

I disagree, and strongly, with such sentiments. Even within Christianity, there are huge gaps between denominations. They're not all equally worthy of membership or respect. Not by a long shot. There are denominations that espouse racism, and other denominations that don't seem to see pervasive child sexual abuse as a major crisis. Then, there are denominations that are notable for their pacifism and tolerance. All are Christian. But all are not worthy of admiration or even tolerance.

Then, if you go outside of Christianity, you find faiths with an even broader spectrum of beliefs and behaviors.

It's ridiculous to lump all religious faiths and subsets of faiths together and claim that faith in whatever is somehow superior to a lack of faith. That's an argument that is ridiculous on its face.

Faith is no guarantee of anything. It is all about individual behavior. The racist SBC Christian is not the same as the Quaker. Not at all. Both might have faith, but they are different in the extreme when it comes to their relationship to society and others.

I don't mind people of faith having their faith. What I mind is how people behave. That is the only measure that matters to me.

[bitterross]

1. I agree with you. I think Faith is a poor substitute for well being.

I bring up the term "well being" because the Sam Harris book The Moral Landscape. In that book (and I'm generalizing) he proposed the important thing is are we contributing to the well being of other entities (not just humans) as a more moral way of looking at/judging things. Far more immediately knowable and do-able than betting on rewards in an afterlife we don't know exists.

I like that concept. "Am I contributing to the well being, or at least not harming the well being of others?"

Far more simple than any religious dogma. Certainly encompasses the ten commandments and most things we consider "morally appropriate."

[gtar100]

2. When some people say "you just gotta have faith"

they may as well be saying, "just hope for the best". Except that if it doesn't work out, using the latter at least doesn't imply a personal rebuke from the Almighty Creator.

[guillaumeb]

3. There is speech about faith,

and there are actions.


We know people by their actions.

[MineralMan]

4. Yes, indeed we do.

Gives one pause, doesn't it? Speech is action, guillaumeb.

[trotsky]

7. LMAO

So that kind of makes your other thread about faith completely pointless.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=291454

My gosh it's fun seeing you contradict yourself over and over.

[NRaleighLiberal]

5. The issue - so many hide behind faith as a carte blanche for any behavior...

such as 100 evangelical preachers deciding god wanted trump to be president because...faith



I confess (now there's a word) - I don't get it either.

[MineralMan]

6. A person's "faith" is uninformative about who that person is.

And yet, so many identify themselves by their faith. We can all see that to be meaningless in many cases.

When someone says to me, "I am a Christian," I still known nothing about how to expect that person to behave in any situation. The statement really means nothing. And yet, that person believes that he or she has told me something of importance. I can only shrug and wait to see what happens next.

[keithbvadu2]

8. "for any behavior..."

"for any behavior..."

Many of these 'faithful' believe that no matter how you cheat and treat your fellow man, all you have to do is confess your sins and get forgiveness.

Not too much emphasis on the repentance part.

Off you go to heaven, all forgiven.

Politicians and preachers have a ready-made statement: "God has forgiven me."

[trotsky]

9. Lots of people have pretty atrocious articles of faith.

They aren't "hiding behind" it at all - they are quite proud to tell you that their faith includes hating homosexuals, etc.

[MineralMan]

10. And yet, some expect us to respect their "faith."

Sorry, I won't play.

[NRaleighLiberal]

11. it is a journey. at 62, having grown up "in the church" - meaning I went as a child,

sang in the choir, all that stuff - since marriage, having our own kids, watching the world evolve (now that's a kind word for much of the mess we are witnessing), all I've done is move further and further way from organized (or disorganized) religion. And that has removed me further and further from those who use faith as the blank check to validate whichever behavior they choose.

Give me a nice kayak trip, my garden, my wife - tangible things - and the need to actually feel - empathize - be courageous and not hide behind a label or a belief - any day.

[MineralMan]

12. But, according to some, we are not to criticize faith.

Never mind what that faith is. We are not to criticize it, because it is faith. As usual, I won't play in that game.

If faith leads people to do vile things, then the faith is to blame, at least in part.

"Faith," itself, is meaningless. It is the nature of the faith that must be considered. "Faith," in itself, is neither morally correct, nor factually correct. Having "faith" means nothing unless the faith is worth having.

[NRaleighLiberal]

13. "faith" is the original teflon. I don't - won't - play either.