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MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 11:22 AM Feb 2018

I know many progressive and thoughtful Christians.

Many of my friends are such people. All are people with strong intellects who apply critical thinking and logic to their decision making. I am also acquainted with a number of right-wing, fundamentalist Christians who are completely incapable of using reason to form opinions about much of anything. Both groups are self-described Christians, who adhere to the doctrines and beliefs of that religion, in one way or another. Beyond that, they are not alike at all.

I have no brief with Christians, per se. Each such person finds his or her own comfort zone with regard to religious belief or non-belief. I have huge problems with the second group of Christians I mentioned above. Not because they are Christians, but because they appear not to think clearly about much of anything. They try my patience.

I also have friends and acquaintances who are either atheists or who have no affiliation with any religious organizations or particular beliefs about religion. Most of them are progressives politically, but that may have to do with my preference for associating with progressive people. I assume there are non-believers or non-religious people who are also knee-jerk right-wingers. I just don't know many of those.

As everyone here knows, I'm an atheist. I find religious beliefs interesting, and have studied, broadly, the religions of the world for decades, out of that interest. I enjoy discussions about religious beliefs, so I come to the Religion Group, because that is its purpose. I've been joining in religious discussions online since the mid 1980s, on various forums. In doing so, I have observed that the same arguments, misunderstandings and cast of characters exist and have existed on all of them.

The discussions are always similar in nature, and the people involved in those discussions always have the same groups of people involved in them. The Religion Group on DU is almost identical in that way with the Religion Forum on CompuServe back in the 80s. If I didn't know better, I'd think the same people were on both groups. The discussions and arguments are identical. The cast of characters participating are functionally identical as well. That cast includes the full gamut of personalities, intellectual capabilities, and temperaments.

I'm a veteran of such discussions. I find them interesting, frustrating, and alternatively hilarious and anger-inducing at times. This Religion Group has nothing about it that makes it unique in any way. It's just another online Religion Forum. As such, it's a place I plan to continue to frequent. I like such forums. Sometimes I find them fascinating and full of thoughtful discussions. Other times, they are fractious, annoying, and full of senseless disputes.

So such forums go. The gang's all here on the DU Religion Group. Let the melee continue.

8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I know many progressive and thoughtful Christians. (Original Post) MineralMan Feb 2018 OP
Progressive and thoughtful? I expected when I opened this post, I would read: "Just kidding" rainin Feb 2018 #1
You're meeting the wrong people. Try visiting an ELCA Lutheran church MineralMan Feb 2018 #2
You are right. I should do that. rainin Feb 2018 #3
I understand. It's good, I think, to broaden your MineralMan Feb 2018 #4
Many Christians simply will not condemn a brother or sister of the faith. Mariana Feb 2018 #5
That's true, of course. MineralMan Feb 2018 #6
I wish they would, too. Mariana Feb 2018 #7
I assume I know some. Iggo Feb 2018 #8

rainin

(3,011 posts)
1. Progressive and thoughtful? I expected when I opened this post, I would read: "Just kidding"
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 11:39 AM
Feb 2018

I am waiting to meet a Christian who even remotely aligns with the teachings of Christ. The leaders are corrupt, and the Christians I know are the most hateful people I've ever met.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
2. You're meeting the wrong people. Try visiting an ELCA Lutheran church
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 11:43 AM
Feb 2018

or any of the many other churches who have welcomed immigrants, LGBTQ people and people of all colors into their fold. You'll find them full of smart, liberal people. If you only see right-wing, fundamentalist, evangelical Christians, you are not getting the full view.

On the other hand, I wish my liberal Christian acquaintances would be more outspoken about the awful things being said and done by other Christians. I wish they would make themselves better known as voices from Christianity. That's a failing, I think, that is encouraged by their beliefs.

rainin

(3,011 posts)
3. You are right. I should do that.
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 11:58 AM
Feb 2018

I come from a fundamentalist Christian family with and elderly church-going mom in my care. Her cult-like devotion to Fox News has made me an angry person right now. I see first hand, up close, how hateful right wing Christians are and it tears me up.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
4. I understand. It's good, I think, to broaden your
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 12:00 PM
Feb 2018

exposure to a wide range of Christian attitudes if you are a Christian. It's a mistake to lump all Christians into one category. Good luck in your search. When you find a progressive church, consider taking your mother with you to a few services. Who knows?

Mariana

(14,861 posts)
5. Many Christians simply will not condemn a brother or sister of the faith.
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 01:01 PM
Feb 2018

Any Christian, no matter how disgusting as a human being that Christian may be, is thought to be "better" than any non-Christian. Other Christians almost always receive the benefit of the doubt, hateful words and behavior are ignored, and any criticism of an individual Christian by "outsiders" will be taken as an an attack on all Christians. This leads to some very strange occurrences, like a Christian poster encouraging people on a Democratic board to visit and read a right-wing hate site, and then crying persecution of Christians when the obvious was pointed out to him. I don't believe that poster agrees with the hateful content on the site, but rather that he overlooked it because the proprietor of the site is a Christian.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
6. That's true, of course.
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 01:05 PM
Feb 2018

I'm saying that I wish they would. I'm not a Christian. I have no compunction about condemning people who promote bad actions.

I wish progressive Christians would speak out more clearly about Christians who do violent, hateful things. Certainly no Christian should encourage others to read hateful things, simply because they were written by a Christian. That's just painfully stupid.

Mariana

(14,861 posts)
7. I wish they would, too.
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 01:58 PM
Feb 2018

I think the best we can expect is more of the No True Scotsman argument that we see so frequently. That's a very convenient way to avoid feeling disloyal for criticizing fellow Christians. Simply declare they aren't Christians at all.

Iggo

(47,578 posts)
8. I assume I know some.
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 03:14 PM
Feb 2018

The sheer number of xians in this country makes it likely to the point of certain.

But the ones who I know for a fact are Christian are stupid, racist, woman-hating, gay-hating assholes.

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