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MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:18 PM Feb 2018

No Religious Belief Is Required to Understand Reciprocity

as the primary principle of an ethical compass.

It's a simple logical concept:

If you can identify a good action, based on your own response to it, then acting in that way is probably a good thing to do.

Conversely, if your response to an action by others is negative, then taking such actions is probably a bad thing to do.

Every religion contains a prescription to use reciprocity to make decisions on actions. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is a common expression, as is the converse "Do not do to others what you would not want done to you."

There is a reason such statements are common to all religious doctrine. That reason is that the concept of reciprocity is so simple to understand that it is part of basic ethics in all human societies.

Pretty much all behavioral rules that have to do with how we treat others derive from that simple reciprocity statement:

Don't kill people. Nobody wants to be killed, so killing is bad.
Don't steal. Nobody wants someone to steal their junk, so stealing is obviously bad.
Don't commit adultery. Almost everyone dislikes having someone else having sex with their own partner.
Don't lie. If someone tells a lie about you, you don't like it, so don't lie about other people.

And so on. Religion is not required to understand any of that. The fact that such rules are encoded in religious scriptures does not mean that they originated in those scriptures. In fact, reciprocity is so easy to understand that it forms the ethical basis of almost all human interactions.

If someone follows a religion based on its presentation of rules based on reciprocity, they should understand that reciprocity is a universal principle that is common to all human cultures and societies. It's so simple that it is the easiest principle to understand of all.

How does that feel to you? If you don't like it, don't do it to others.

9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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No Religious Belief Is Required to Understand Reciprocity (Original Post) MineralMan Feb 2018 OP
"Don't lie. If someone tells a lie about you, that's not good, so don't lie about other people." trotsky Feb 2018 #1
but they have a Get Out of Jail free card Angry Dragon Feb 2018 #2
Well, like all ethical principles, not everyone follows them. MineralMan Feb 2018 #3
All of the major religions have some variant of the Golden Rule The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #4
Yes, they do, as I said above. MineralMan Feb 2018 #5
And which major religion allows you to rape, pillage, murder, etc.. Fix The Stupid Feb 2018 #6
See, I can't account for that at all. MineralMan Feb 2018 #7
Yep... Fix The Stupid Feb 2018 #8
This one also basically requires your god to be a complete idiot. Pope George Ringo II Feb 2018 #9

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
1. "Don't lie. If someone tells a lie about you, that's not good, so don't lie about other people."
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:20 PM
Feb 2018

Pity there are Christians right here on DU who don't understand that one.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
3. Well, like all ethical principles, not everyone follows them.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:24 PM
Feb 2018

They're the standards for ethical behavior, but living up to standards can be a difficult thing.

Part of the problem is that some people feel good while doing bad things. They forget that they feel bad when someone does the same to them. Following one's own ethical compass requires thoughtful consideration of actions before taking them. Some call that mindfulness. Others apparently call it bullshit.

That's the most difficult part of maintaining an ethical compass.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,903 posts)
4. All of the major religions have some variant of the Golden Rule
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:26 PM
Feb 2018

as an essential tenet of their faith. Apparently it was recognized long ago that treating others as you would wish to be treated is so essential to a civilized society that it was determined to be God's command. Whether or not it was God's idea, it seems to be honored more in the breach than in the observance.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
5. Yes, they do, as I said above.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:28 PM
Feb 2018

Simple logic generates the concept of reciprocity, so it's universally recognized, despite not being universally practiced.

We're only human, I guess.

Fix The Stupid

(949 posts)
6. And which major religion allows you to rape, pillage, murder, etc..
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:56 PM
Feb 2018

Etc. for your entire life...but on your deathbed you can 'ask for forgiveness' and, according to said religion, you are 'saved' and will be accepted in 'heaven', clean and pure?

5 seconds before hitler pulled the trigger, he could have said "sorry - i accept you now jesus" and all is forgiven?

That doesn't sound like reciprocity to me...sounds like 'having your cake and eating it too'...

Only religion can give you this ridiculous scenario above.

"If someone follows a religion based on its presentation of rules based on reciprocity, they should understand that reciprocity is a universal principle that is common to all human cultures and societies. It's so simple that it is the easiest principle to understand of all. "

Sums it up pretty nice actually. Hard to believe people don't understand this - but then, we have people walking around thinking their god is talking to them...



MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
7. See, I can't account for that at all.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 01:00 PM
Feb 2018

I'm not a Christian. I don't follow any religion, actually. I'm an atheist. I follow my own ethical compass, which includes the concept of reciprocity as a primary tenet.

I'm certain that I do not follow it perfectly. I try to follow it faithfully, though. When I fail, I try to make amends.

I cannot explain the conflict between people and the beliefs they claim to adhere to but do not. I can certainly observe it, though.

Fix The Stupid

(949 posts)
8. Yep...
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 01:42 PM
Feb 2018

"I cannot explain the conflict between people and the beliefs they claim to adhere to but do not. I can certainly observe it, though."

That should be on a t-shirt

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
9. This one also basically requires your god to be a complete idiot.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:45 PM
Feb 2018

Not that this is necessarily incompatible with religious doctrine, but that's hardly flattering.

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