Religion
Related: About this forumGood news: On college campuses, some evangelicals find room to reflect
From the article:
Study centers, however, want to cast off the perception that evangelicals are anti-intellectual or anti-science. Protestants, after all, established most of the universities known today as the Ivy League, and these centers want to restore respect for learning and scholarship......
At UVA, one of the most popular study center offerings is the Faith, Reason, and Science Group, which has been a long-standing partnership with the Virginia Atheists and Agnostics. Participants might reflect on a chapter from a book by evolutionary biologist and atheist Richard Dawkins one week, and by geneticist and evangelical Francis Collins the next.
To read more:
https://religionnews.com/2018/02/05/on-college-campuses-some-evangelicals-find-room-to-reflect/
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)In pursuit of dialogue and perhaps, one hopes, a recognition of what we have in common.
MineralMan
(146,329 posts)interaction with an atheist group. But, the center is for Christians. You can't get in unless you know the lock code. You've taken one sentence out of the article to pretend that it is a center for unbiased investigation. It's not. Did you read the entire article? I did.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)The goal isnt to shut down discussion by how right you are, she said. Its a conversation in which you love and care about one another in pursuit of truth.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Ironic, but true.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)which is made clear by the preceding paragraph. So, here it is in context:
Study center regulars dont agree on hot-button issues such as human sexuality, President Trumps politics or the evangelical label, but she said the leaders as well as the students active in the center are committed to respecting other peoples beliefs.
The goal isnt to shut down discussion by how right you are, she said. Its a conversation in which you love and care about one another in pursuit of truth.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)I don't understand why we can't share some of her values like: ..."appreciates the spirit of open inquiry mixed with warmth at the center" in the sentence before YOUR quote.
If this goes on, you might end up quoting - and reading! - the entire article!
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)and there might be some here, it seems that any imperfection is reason to reject the effort.
It seems that some very few here cannot admit that religion might be responsible for anything good.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)You seem to have missed the point about outreach and dialogue.
Or was it the "good news" caption that offended?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And you found a claim that I did not make. Very perceptive.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)That's the real problem. Now they are getting others to bend to their will about it. Thanks Republican Jesus!
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)because your conclusion is unsupported.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Much like that.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Just because he didn't walk away with the points you personally, subjectively felt were salient you assume he didn't read the piece? That's rude.
Jesus wouldn't approve.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)As is your avoidance of my points about outreach and dialogue. Interesting.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Regardless of what I read in the article, what I said is true. There is obvious disregard from evangelicals towards education and academia. Just look at the ark encounter, or like, a dozen easily found, often reiterated examples that you'd have to have a strong angle to attempt to deny.
So, what's your angle? "Not alll~ll evangelicals"? feel under attack when any branch of christianity is called out that you jump to defend the most preposterous examples?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)In my view, this outreach is excellent news.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Not one bit.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)For lots of people, that is exactly the case. Was for me too.
MineralMan
(146,329 posts)higher education. They believe that line is accurate. While it is for some people, of course, those people would have found their way to non-belief either way. And universities also have organizations for Christian students, too. It's inconvenient for religious hard-liners that education presents ideas to students. They don't like ideas.
My path to atheism occurred, in part, while I was in college, but college had nothing to do with it. Being anti-education won't keep young people in church. The ones who leave will leave, either way.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Well, some people.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)and wish to minimize both their numbers and importance.
Thanks for reaffirming what everyone already knows about you.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)For lots of people, that is exactly the case. Was for me too.
What was the impetus?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Voltaire2
(13,155 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Voltaire2
(13,155 posts)But one thing that certainly developed from the enlightenment is that universities gradually became secular institutions dedicated to advancing human knowledge rather than ossified institutions for preserving medieval academic traditions.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I understand, but history does not support this framing. Sorry.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Some of the most accomplished scientists in history were deeply faithful.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)that doesn't contradict what I said.
Additionally, the church made sure there were no other competing institutions for knowledge for a very long time. That should always be remembered.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Why, precisely, is this good news in your view?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Is dialogue and outreach bad news? If you believe that, feel free to defend that position.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)You made the positive claim. It is incumbent upon you to back it up. Do your due diligence or stop whining. Either would be preferrable.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And almost in chorus, some few prefer to attack good news.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Repeating that claim is not "support".
Yes, many people register their distaste for your posts. The only common denominator is you.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)In my reading here, each time anyone posts anything that presents religion in a positive light, a certain few can be counted on to weigh in and attack the post and/or the poster. It happens constantly.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)It's easier to think something inherently wrong with us than it is to seriously examine what you say and how you say it.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Just observation of what is obvious to many.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I fail to understand the need.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Perhaps desirable is a better descriptive term.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Do people need colleges to validate their faith? Is that what this is?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)My point. And part of the point of the article.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Your article couches this as a hedge that these people won't lose their religion. Or rather, that they fear doing so.
Again I ask why does that matter?
Mariana
(14,860 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Mariana
(14,860 posts)at the Center for Christian Studies.
Center for Christian Studies
We seek to promote Christian formation through the communication of biblical truth, for the good of the University community, with hospitality and care, and in unity with other Grounds ministries.
What the hell is "Christian formation"?
https://www.studycenter.net/
Listed under Small Groups, presumably because it's a small group:
Faith, Reason, and Science
The Faith, Reason, and Science group is for discussing questions about epistemology, the philosophy of science and the relationship of science and the Christian faith.
https://www.studycenter.net/small-groups
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)So examples like this should be seen as good news. Not perfect news, but good news.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)rather than take the word of a writer who may be highly biased. It appears that some of the content of this piece isn't entirely accurate.
For example, she calls the Faith, Reason and Science Group "one of the most popular", yet the website lists it under Small Groups. I see no mention of any "alliances" or discussions with non-Christians anywhere on the site - although it may be that "Christian formation" means the formation of new Christians via recruitment, which would of course require some kind of communication. Do you see any evidence of dialog with non-Christians on the site?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Small groups may be a general term. There are many such groups at DU. I would not expect details or transcripts of every meeting that takes place between every group.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)Most likely, though, the Center is exactly what its own website makes it appear to be: A place for Christians to go where they can exclude non-Christians.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)that might make one wonder why.
But your reframing here literally requires you to reject what was written in favor of a scenario that you imagine might be correct.
Amazing exercise in framing.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)Have you read any of it? Have you found any examples of inclusion of non-Christians there?
Since the site is there for everyone to see, and it was published by the organization itself, why should I take the word of some writer I've never heard of or read before? This may shock you, but I don't believe things just because some stranger wrote them. I look for evidence that claims are true. I looked for corroboration for that one pitiful sentence you're so excited about, that vaguely hints at some kind of dialog, and I found none. Indeed, I found much evidence that the Center exists for the purpose of excluding non-Christians.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)MineralMan
(146,329 posts)in the post you replied to.
There's no indication on the page for that organization that they seek dialog with non-Christians. Therefore, I doubt that such dialog takes place. If anyone tried, they'd get the usual circular logic applied to science by science deniers. We're all familiar with that, and are used to it.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)If you read the article, you could see the outreach demonstrated.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)The website is there, and it says what it says. Have you read any of it? Have you found any examples of inclusion of non-Christians there?
These are simple questions, Gil. answerable by a Yes or a No. An honest person wouldn't have any difficulty answering either one.
MineralMan
(146,329 posts)That can be a sign of many different things, I think.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And, as I mentioned to the questioner, the answer was in the excerpt and the article. An article that you said you read.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)Maybe it's a secret commandment, only found in The Gospel According to St. Guilliaume.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)and actually in the excerpt. I assumed that you read it, but on the assumption that you might no have read it, here it is again:
You can reject this, based on your feelings, if you wish, or you can accept it.
Voltaire2
(13,155 posts)Study centers, however, want to cast off the perception that evangelicals are anti-intellectual or anti-science. Protestants, after all, established most of the universities known today as the Ivy League, and these centers want to restore respect for learning and scholarship....
All evangelicals are Protestants, not all Protestants are evangelicals.
The anti-intellectual anti-science tendency in evangelicals is very strong.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)or are there exceptions?
And if there are exceptions, or those open to the concept, is it better ti ignore them or to reach out?
And is it better for the faith group at UVA to dialogue with the atheist group, or to ignore them?
In your universe, is the perfect always the enemy of the good?
Voltaire2
(13,155 posts)I said it is very strong.
82% of evangelicals either reject Theory if Evolution entirely or believe it is guided by their imaginary sky being. They rank at the bottom in this pew survey
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/10/darwin-day
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)about openness to dialogue, and the perfect being the enemy of the good, what of them?
Voltaire2
(13,155 posts)You once again engaged in a straw man attack. I refuted your bullshit and backed up my actual assertion with evidence. Your article is full of dodgy shit, as I and others have pointed out. Evangelicals are, in the vast majority, anti-science anti-intellectual rightwing authoritarians.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I understand why you must respond in this manner.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)It's insanity. Really. It's a good thing I enjoy seeing you humiliate yourself over and over again, or I'd just put you on ignore and be done with it.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)You can't even see people you disagree with as individuals. No, they're a "choir" in "harmony."
I address my arguments to YOU as a believer. I reply to YOUR questions and YOUR points.
You refuse to grant me, or anyone else who disagrees with you, the same respect.
No wonder you have such a tough time here. Pity you refuse to see it.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I used the word "we" to emphasize something.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Because you can't just admit error or apologize, you have to make it seem like it's a problem for everyone.
Again, illustrating why so many have a problem with you.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Thank you for that.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Perfectly.