So- Who here is against abortion??

[digonswine]

Personally, I can imagine being apposed to it. I think I understand why it is a big deal for many.

Please explain why, if you are opposed to it, why this is the case.

Full disclosure--I am not against it and have had an abortion with my loved one.

[guillaumeb]

1. One can be pro-choice politically, and anti-abortion as a personal choice.

I believe that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are also in that camp.

As a male, an abortion is not something that I could have. It is not something that my wife and I were in favor of. But I would not presume to tell another person what choice they should make. It must be up to each individual to decide.

[digonswine]

3. Good

Is there a moral judgement?

[guillaumeb]

6. If you and your partner felt it was the correct choice,

that is what matters.

My wife and I felt differently. I do not judge your decisions.

We are also anti-death penalty, and pacifists.

[digonswine]

16. That is nice to know

I usually see you in the religion group--I will keep this in mind when reading there.
That is not snark.
I am also against the DP-
I am not in to making the perfect he enemy of the good, after all.

[SonofDonald]

46. I am totally pro choice but

For myself I would much rather have the child, I am male but it is always the woman's choice, period.

When my ex-wife was pregnant with our second Daughter she asked if we should have it due to our then crumbling marriage.

I said I wanted the child and would raise her myself if need be, luckily we (She) carried to term and my Daughter was born.

But yes although those days are long gone for me to be a new father again I am still pro choice no matter what.

It's not up to me.

[digonswine]

52. Yup-

Your opinion is valid, but, as you said, it is the woman's choice. AMEN

[guillaumeb]

82. Not all theists are conservative, or literalists.

There is also a group titled Christian Liberals & Progressive People of Faith.

[Ohiogal]

2. I can understand

Why someone would be against it.

They are fully within their rights to believe so.

If they don't believe in it .... then don't have one.

No one is forcing women to have abortions.

I won't force my beliefs on you, and you don't force yours on me.

See how that works?

[digonswine]

7. Yeah

Thanks for no judgement.

I do see how that works.


I also see there is no need for condescension. I am sure you see how that works.

[jaysunb]

4. I am...

but I'm a man, so I wouldn't be having one or having an opinion about a woman's health decisions.

[digonswine]

9. I get that

Being a man does not preclude having an opinion-it does preclude thinking it has a great weight in the matter, though.

[digonswine]

17. Why are you against it?

[Snackshack]

5. Its a personal choice.

...and nobody else business beyond the woman and the father of the child (if he is even involved).

The “Pro-life” people I have known are some of the most disingenuous people I have ever met.

[digonswine]

19. I can only agree

[gopiscrap]

8. I'm not we have too many kids as it is

in fact if you're a republican I am all in favor of a retroactive abortion

[MLAA]

10. 😉

[digonswine]

11. I'm not-

a republican-I've been her forever.

There are many candidates for a retroactive abortion I can think of!

[gopiscrap]

14. same here

[MaryMagdaline]

12. I am against it as a starting point -

If it is more reasonable to have an abortion because of life of the mother, psychological health of the mother because of extreme youth, rape, incest, if the child may be born into abject poverty outside a country with safety net, certainty of disease of the child and other reasons, then I could be brought to conclude that abortion is the more reasonable choice. Less likely to conclude to abort as time goes on since I am not convinced that there is no pain on the part of the fetus. Also, my own biologically programmed empathy with anything resembling human form, which I believe is evolutionary. In other words, as President OBama says, let the woman weigh all factors, agonize over her decision and arrive at a decision she can live with. Who else can weigh the pros and cons and will suffer the consequences along with the fetus?

[digonswine]

18. Calling it a fetus is the first mistake--

It is an embryo until the 11th week of gestation.
There is no functioning nervous system, as we know it. Suffering is a human concept.
I suspect there is no real experience of stimuli until much later-even after birth(BTW-I am not condoning infanticide).
If we decide to limit abortion based upon subjective experience, we can push it up to uncomfortable parameters.

[MaryMagdaline]

29. You are right - i have less problem with

Aborting an embryo. Once there is a fetus involved and any neuro activity, abortion disturbs me greatly. Not so greatly that I would not consider it in case of life of mother (woman has absolute right to save her own life), rape, incest, diseased fetus, horrible future life for mother or child ... all factors to be considered. I also think that evolution has created feelings of empathy among mammals, that empathy is necessary for our survival, that empathy in the case of fetus may be over-feeling in face of science of life, but knee-jerk empathy is what makes me human (mammal actually) and it is a strong force I cannot set aside. Consider as a child that I emotionally connected with plastic baby dolls ... my dog mothered her stuffed hedgehog ... I cannot set aside revulsion of feticide. Saving another life or eliminating pain of the human to be born are the only things that lessen the revulsion. Again ... not talking about an embryo.

[digonswine]

35. I think that knee-jerk feelings are subject to bad judgement-making

[MaryMagdaline]

38. Perhaps

But empathy and revulsion are not based on reason or logic. They can be justified but so can cruelty. They are always the starting point to begin any inquiry.

[digonswine]

51. These days, we do not base rational judgments on these feelings-

They are bad starting points. After all, these base intuitions are how some rationalize their distaste for existences other than what they know. A revulsion of gay sex makes some conclude that gay marriage is bad. The idea is to pass beyond our base natures and to use rational thought to make decisions for ourselves.
If left to my own, I would outlaw celery-consumption,cucumberphagy(made-up word), and a complete ban on honeydews.

[MaryMagdaline]

55. Do you feel revulsion for child labor?

Is that based on revulsion or did you actually have to study to find out children suffer when forced to work long hours in harsh conditions? My opposition started with empathy. I did learn about stunted growth, shortened life spans, but probably would never have studied labor history if I didn't first feel bad when I saw children working. It's a starting place. I read everything I can on fetal development to learn where on the continuum the fetus begins to feel. I even ask myself if reactive feeling is even the same as conscious feeling ... can we ever experience pain without being alert? In the old days, feticide was not a crime until the fetus quickened ... probably a crude way of determining it was "human." Roe vs Wade says the state has an interest at the point of viability. Roe vs Wade is actually a fairly conservative opinion ... allowing the state to get involved in a citizen's body just because the fetus is viable. Is it logic, empathy or misogynistic meddling? I have decided not to meddle except in my own life and except when I see pain ... poverty, hunger, disease ... outside of another's human realm, i.e. The body.

[Mariana]

43. Every pregnancy is potentially deadly to the mother.

Most of the time, it is impossible to predict what complications may arise during pregnancy and/or birth, or how severe the complications might be.

My own pet complication was gestational diabetes, detected about halfway through the pregnancy. It wasn't likely to kill me, but it certainly could have permanently damaged my body and my health.

[MaryMagdaline]

48. That's why it's up to the woman

Gestational diabetes is life-threatening. My niece-in-law had a huge spike in blood pressure. She had to deliver early just to survive. I probably would have aborted. She decided to hold out until 28 weeks for delivery and she survived. Baby survived. My nephew and his in-laws ready to drop from fear. Respect her decision but was horrified when her life was in the balance. That is why it was her decision. And yours.

[TomSlick]

13. OK, since you asked.

I have asked my co-religionists where in the Bible it says, "Thou shalt not commit abortion." I am pointed to scripture that says nothing of the sort. The best they can do is the commandment against murder, which presupposes that abortion is murder - a circular argument.

I can find in the Bible where it says not to eat shrimp, cut the curls on the side of the head, wear mixed material fabric, etc. A set of rules that detailed would surely say "Thou shalt not commit abortion" if that's what it meant.

Maybe I have a lawyer's view of things but with limited exceptions, "What the law does not prohibit, it permits."

So, someone help me. What is the scriptural basis for the position that abortion is sin?

[Comatose Sphagetti]

15. "What is the scriptural basis for the position that abortion is sin?" See below.

[TomSlick]

21. I'm sorry, see what below - below where?

[Comatose Sphagetti]

33. Bad joke on my part.

There was nothing in the text. That was the point... To my knowledge there is nothing in the bible about abortion. Sorry for the confusion.

[TomSlick]

37. No worries.

I was raised in a Baptist Church (I still contend there is no such thing as the Baptist Church). When they told a kid like me who always enjoyed reading that I ought to read the Bible, I did so - I've read the book from cover to cover several times (OK, I tend to skim Revelations and the lists of begats).

I don't accept the Old Testament as particularly authoritative for my personal morality. (Maybe my love of boiled shrimp and raw oysters clouds my judgment.) Nevertheless, I can find nothing - as in not anything - to support the position that the Bible condemns abortion.

If it ain't in the book, it ain't.

[digonswine]

22. I tend not to ask the scriptures for moral guidance-

I look to the common good. I bet you could find a prohibition of abortion in the bible if you try.
Looking toward scripture for the good thing is a scary proposition.
"What the law does not prohibit, it permits."--that also seems a bit lacking. That is a lot of not prohibiting and a lot of allowing.

[TomSlick]

25. Understood. I'm not asking about your source of moral guidance.

I'm prepared to assume that you have a perfectly functional moral compass.

My question is, for folks who claim the scripture IS their source of moral guidance, where in the book does it say anything about abortion?

[digonswine]

39. I don't know about that

I would just suggest that that book is not a good source of morality for these things. I'm sure the scripture can be massaged to a degree that abortion could be OK. After all, no one really takes true guidance from scripture.

[TomSlick]

42. That may be my point.

Fundamentalist Christians claim scripture as the source of morality. They also claim the scripture supports their view that abortion is sin - a violation of God's law.

They cannot, however, point to any scripture as the basis of a cogent argument.

Admitting my limitations, I am a lawyer and not a biblical scholar. If there is some real condemnation of abortion in the scripture, I wish someone would give me a citation.

[digonswine]

47. I don't get how that matters-

right is right-
I do not see how if there was a real condemnation of abortion in the scripture informs of us of right or wrong. It is irrelevant.
BTW-If they want scripture to support their claims, you can bet they will find it or find a way to find it. They seek and find. It's a pretty fluid document for(some of) them.

[Mariana]

45. You could find a prohibition of abortion in the Bible if you try.

Sure, if you "interpret" the text in such a way as to conclude that it means something completely different from what it actually says. A lot of people do that.

[TomSlick]

50. I've tried. Honestly, I have.

I am trained as a lawyer to be able to argue either side of a proposition. I simply cannot find any authority (absent torturing the authority beyond recognition) for the proposition that the scripture forbids abortion.

[Lotusflower70]

20. I'm not against it

I had one. I was 13 when I was raped. I am very thankful that I was able to have an abortion. I believe in the power of self-determination. I will fight till my dying breath for the right to choose. I know people who are against it. Some for religious reasons and some for so-called moral reasons. And you can be against it personally but you don't get to interfere with the individual choice. As a woman, I get sick and tired of men using the right to choose as a way to control and repress young girls and women. It's such blatant hypocrisy and disregard for the person impacted because so many cloak the arguments in shame and guilt for the women. I am against people telling others what to do with their own bodies and lives.

[digonswine]

27. AMEN-

We had to wade through protesters in the twin cities in 2003. I just listened to the Unladylike podcast about the variety of experiences when getting this procedure done. It is a good listen for anyone.

https://www.unladylike.co/episodes/01payforabortion

[Lotusflower70]

31. Hmmm

I will have to listen to it. I had my abortion in the Twin Cities. I had a priest tell me I was going to hell on my way in. I told him I was raped, I had already been to hell. It's sad that we have to fight and face so much grief for a decision that we have the right to make that will impact our own lives.

[OhNo-Really]

23. Wrong question.

No one likes abortion. No one!

It has to be an emotionally charged, sad option I am sure for all concerned.

The correct question is

How do you feel about a woman's right to choose legally available reproduction options?

or

Do you believe a woman's right to abortion was legally settled via the SCOTUS RULING?

[Voltaire2]

28. I like abortions. I like all safe and effective

medical procedures. I think they are really good and I am glad we have access to safe and effective medical procedures. All of them.

[digonswine]

30. Wrong

Abortion is a necessity.
Not all women see at as a sad time-or an unfortunate necessity. I'm a dude, and even I get this. Stop infantilizing women, or, at least, making them feel bad for a necessary decision.
Yes--I like abortion. Don't try to make people feel bad for being able to choose, please.

[Mariana]

49. Speak for yourself, please.

Please don't presume to tell women who've had abortions, or who are considering having one, how they're supposed to feel about it.

[democrattotheend]

110. Agreed

I know women who had abortions and did not find them traumatic or have any regrets.

I had to have a D&C yesterday, which is the same procedure as an abortion, except in my case it was because the baby* had already stopped growing. It was traumatic for me only because this was a wanted pregnancy and I was and still am heartbroken that it wasn't viable. I don't think it would have been nearly as traumatic if I had used the procedure to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, although that would probably depend on the reason for the termination. The procedure itself was not terrible at all, and while I was in a lot of pain for about 20 minutes right afterwards, today I feel fine physically, even though I am still a mess emotionally.

* I hope people are not offended by me calling him a baby. Legally, I don't believe life begins at conception or that a fetus has any rights independent of the mother as long as he or she is still attached to the mother, but somehow calling my own potential son a fetus just doesn't feel right to me.

[Mariana]

111. I'm so sorry for your loss.

A wanted pregnancy and an unwanted pregnancy are completely different situations, so of course a woman doesn't feel the same way about them. We certainly don't need someone (probably a man) telling us we should feel bad about having an induced abortion, according to his notion that abortion is A Bad Thing.

It sounds like your physical recovery is going well. That is good. Take care of yourself.

[democrattotheend]

112. Thank you

Physically I am fine, thankfully. Emotionally I'm still struggling and probably will for a while. I feel very fortunate to have a supportive husband and family, and to work at a firm where everyone has been very understanding and gone out of their way to be supportive. I'm trying to focus on the positives but it's hard to do so soon after.

Going through this experience has made the abortion issue more personal for me, but it hasn't changed my views at all, except I guess that I didn't want to use the word fetus to refer to the son I would have had. I still find the idea of forcing a woman to continue a pregnancy against her will barbaric and inhumane. If Roe v. Wade is overturned, I hope abortion rights groups relitigate the issue and challenge abortion bans as not only violative of the 4th amendment search provision, but also as a literal seizure of a woman's body in violation of the 4th amendment, as well as being in violation of the 1st and 13th amendments.

[Voltaire2]

26. I am pro abortion.

[Upthevibe]

34. Excellent post....IMHO some

people are Republicans for this reason only. Please don't flame me, it's just that I have at least two childhood friends who I KNOW would vote Dem. if not for this issue. Personally, I've had two and don't feel any guilt at all. However, I can definitely see why people have the strong feelings they have. On the other hand, I get confused and it pisses me off that people are anti-choice/abortion but pro-death penalty. And, these same people complain about children's health-care....WTF????

[kacekwl]

32. Kind of a stupid question. I'm against abortion as I

believe most people are not FOR abortion . As I am a male that will not be a choice I ever have to make. People get an abortion for a multitude of reasons and should be a personal choice . IMOP very few women are for abortion it is an option that should be available.

[digonswine]

41. Wrong

Some people, like me and many others, see it as a responsible choice and not a necessary evil.
This attitude is just one more reason reason women should feel ashamed of themselves.

[kacekwl]

71. Are you responding to my post because nowhere

did I imply a necessary evil.

[AtheistCrusader]

75. Actually, you did cast shade on it.

It's nice that you want it to remain legally available, at least I guess.

[Mariana]

78. Then why are you against abortion? nt.

[NCDem777]

36. I'm against abortion as a way to avoid down's syndrome

or any other disabilities save for those that will lead to imminent death right out of the gate.

[Voltaire2]

40. So you would prohibit those abortions?

[NCDem777]

54. I don't think I'd go as far as prohibit per se

But I do think parents should get a more informed view of the story. When many of these parents hear that they're about to have a child with Down Syndrome, they automatically think the absolute worst. Largely due to our media which portrays disability of any kind as a fate worse than death. It doesn't help that our medical establishment basically favors abortion to prevent Down Syndrome.

It is a little disturbing to me that nearly 100% of babies with Down Syndrome are aborted for no other reason than them having Down Syndrome. If we changed Down Syndrome (or any other disability) with any other characteristic, the word "genocide" would start getting thrown around. U.N. investigations, probably some Hague inquiries etc.

And when I say "get more informed" I don't mean the standard "show people a bunch of blood and gore to scare them away from the clinic" nonsense. None of that Operation Rescue shit. Just some balanced literature about disability. Maybe suggesting that parents spending some time with people who have Down Syndrome, to show that people who have the disease can live happy lives.

[Mariana]

61. Women who choose abortion are not committing "genocide"

just because you don't approve of their reasons for doing so.

You're using the word genocide incorrectly, as well. People with Down's Syndrome do not comprise an ethnic group, a racial group, or a religious group. Even if they did, you'd have to demonstrate an intention to eliminate the group, when what is actually happening is that individual women are deciding independently to terminate their pregnancies.

Here is the definition of genocide according to the United Nations, since you brought that up:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

http://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.html

[Voltaire2]

65. Within the next few years tech like CRISPR

will enable precise genetic modification and make the technology practical and available. Quite a few genetic abnormalities could then be eliminated.

Would you view the elimination of Down’s syndrome through genetic modification as a “genocide”?

[democrattotheend]

109. Having just gone through a Down Syndrome-related miscarriage, I understand where you are coming from

On Tuesday, at 12 weeks pregnant, we got the shocking news that the baby* had stopped growing around 8 weeks, shortly after the last ultrasound showing everything was fine. A few minutes later, the doctor, who was otherwise wonderfully compassionate, came in with my NIPT results and said that he "would have told me to terminate this pregnancy anyway" because my NIPT showed that he had a very high risk of Down Syndrome. I honestly don't know what decision I would have made if I had to make a decision, but I was a little shocked by what the doctor said, although I am guessing he said it that way because the baby was already dead and he wanted to make me feel better. I would like to believe that if I had had a decision to make, he would not have been so pushy. I have been surprised by how many people, including doctors and nurses I've dealt with in the past few days and members of my own family, have assumed that I would have chosen abortion and told me I was lucky not to have to decide. In some sense I am relieved not to have had to make such a tough decision, but it bothers me that some people have treated the decision as a foregone conclusion. If I had to make the decision, I would have wanted more information, including from Down Syndrome parents, although I probably would have sought out such parents on my own, as I would have found it most helpful to speak to parents who are pro-choice like I am but personally made the decision to continue their pregnancy. IMO, pro-choice means pro-choice, not pushing one decision or another in these situations.

[digonswine]

44. Yup-Down's is just another one of of god's great gifts to humanity-

most people in this world that know a fetus has down's DO abort.
This is not to say that those who don't are bad-but most choose to not have that consequence of fertilization.
It is a bit offensive to force people to do that.
But as long as you feel better about it and don't have to deal with it.
And if you have have a down's child--FINE-but you don't get to choose for others, thankfully.

[AtheistCrusader]

76. I wouldn't hesitate for a nanosecond to abort in that condition.

Easy enough to try again.

[Freddie]

81. Me neither

An acquaintance knowingly had a baby with Downs, her third child. Now her other 2 kids' childhood will never be the same, all of their parents' attention and resources will be devoted to their little brother. And it's not fair to them when the parents are gone.
Only YOU know if you can parent a special needs child if you have a choice about it.

[democrattotheend]

107. That's what I would have said a few years ago as well

But after very recently having the experience of finding out that the baby-to-be I thought I had been growing for 12 weeks had died in utero around 8 weeks, and then finding out a few minutes later from the NIPT that he had a very high risk of Down Syndrome, I'm honestly not sure what I would have decided if I had been given the choice. A lot of people have said that I was lucky I didn't have to decide, and in some sense they are right, but it is still bothering me that I don't know what decision I would have made.

P.S. Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I found this post after searching this site for "Down Syndrome" because my husband (who ironically, is more politically conservative on most things than I am) seemed to think that only very religious, usually anti-choice people either decline prenatal testing or opt not to terminate pregnancies with Down Syndrome, so I was curious to know where people who share my political leanings stand on it. FWIW, I 1000% believe in the right to terminate a pregnancy, but I am honestly not sure what choice I would have made if I had had a choice to make.

[Motley13]

53. It is the woman's body, it is her choice. Birth control should be availabe

so it doesn't happen in the first place

[digonswine]

87. AMEN--

but don't you know? If we make birth control options available to youngsters, they might, MIGHT just be impelled to have sex!

I think it's funny to think that people think that they are not going to do it otherwise!

[Lint Head]

56. I am not "for" abortion but do not judge nor am I willing to prevent

a woman from getting one. I would not get one. But hey. I'm a guy.

[digonswine]

88. I agree-

I do not think the dude having input is silly. Just not much. Yeah--don't get one--I know you would carry it to term if you could!! You're a born trouper, I'm sure.

I do wonder about those that "would not get one." --like you.

How do you know this?

After all--you will NEVER EVER KNOW?

[summer_in_TX]

57. While believing all life is sacred, I support the right to an abortion.

I didn't become a Christian until in my late thirties and it was the last thing i expected to be, given my upbringing (staunchly agnostic and antiChristian). In the 29 years since coming to faith, I've read the bible and participated in several bible studies (including one 34-week one that covered both the Old and New Testament to begin to understand God's nature. In that time, I've found God to be completely non-coercive (and not at all like the misrepresentation spouted by American Taliban types).

As Christians, since we are supposed to live as Christ would to the best of our ability, I've concluded that it's fully consistent with God's nature to support abortion rights.

Women (and girls) choose abortions for many complex reasons, including being in a toxic or addicted relationship where love would be in short supply and family violence an issue; discover the child has severe birth defects; or the pregnancy was the result of incest or rape. The God who is love understands, empathizes, and would never force someone to carry the child to term. God respects free will.

To me, a fetus or embryo is a child at a preborn stage of life, and is of sacred worth. But God, the creator of all life, can be entrusted with the eternal life of that child whether brought to term or aborted. And God can be entrusted with our choices, to bring good out of difficult circumstances.

When I was not a Christian, I could imagine having an abortion. Now I cannot imagine choosing to do so, no matter how difficult my circumstances, because my commitment is to live as I believe God would call me to do. But I have my own soul to tend. I cannot - and must not - try to do that for another. It wouldn't be the loving thing to do, and I choose to try to emulate the God who loves me and them by loving others to the best of my ability (and God's help). Not that I can always succeed, but I can be willing to be made willing. Trump is a pretty big stumbling block.

Nor would I judge their choice if they chose to abort. They are created and dearly loved by God, whether they know it yet or not.

[summer_in_TX]

58. It's a painful choice for many.

My husband's first serious girlfriend his first semester in college got pregnant. Twins. At that time, abortion was illegal in many states. She chose to travel to one where it was legal.

I didn't meet my husband until a few years later, but I saw the pain and grief he felt for the twins who never got the chance to live. And for what that did to destroy the relationship with his first love. Making it worse were his own feelings of relief that he wouldn't suddenly become a father / husband / working man at just-turned 18. It took him many years to forgive himself and to come to a place of peace. He had many, many nights of overwhelming sadness before that happened.

Given the level of pain I saw him dealing with, I made darn sure that I was careful about contraceptives so that I didn't add to it.

Thank God, he experienced forgiveness and unconditional love and was able to let it go.

[Voltaire2]

64. Odd. She chose to have an abortion and

you go on to describe his pain over that choice. No information at all about how she felt about it.

[yallerdawg]

66. Odd?

"Summer in Texas" is describing her future husband's feelings regarding an event with an ex-girlfriend several years back.

Why would she have any perspective on the ex-girlfriend's feelings other than what her husband expressed?

As bad or as indifferently or as silently as former relationships may have ended over the years, I don't recall hearing about any woman ever expressing how elated and ecstatic they were to terminate the unwanted pregnancy.

Seen a lot of shit and nastiness between bad couples AFTER the birth, for many, many years.

[digonswine]

89. I am sorry for that pain--

the fact is--most people never get the chance to live--

I am a science teacher and my wife and I had an abortion.

I can't pretend that I don't think about that implanted ball of cells--and, YES-that is what it is at that point--I do wonder about it. I do.

But I and we do not regret the decision AT ALL. Not one bit. I love that we get to decide to have or not have kids. I LOVE that we get to choose that this is a priority. I appreciate that we don't get thrust into a situation we can't handle.

We CHOSE to not have kids and we are constantly ragged on about it.

We don't need unconditional love from some god nor do we need to let it go. There was nothing to let go. This shit only serves to make people feel bad for their decisions. Please stop this.

[yallerdawg]

59. It is a woman's individual right to choose to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

The State should never have the authority to impose 'reproductive slavery' on any woman, of any age, for any reason.

Personal morals, values and beliefs may inform this decision by a woman. That is her choice, too.

Men should be 100% supportive regardless of her decision. Yes, including keeping it!

[gibraltar72]

60. To me this question is bass ackward

Is anyone Pro abortion? I don't know of anyone cheering for abortion. I believe in babys being in a safe loving home. If the carrier doesn't think thats possible I want her or him when we get there to have the merciful option. there are many reasons why that is important besides health of the mother. I don't see any justificatio for anyone not involved personally to have any input. I am death on the phony counseling centers that have an agenda. that crap doesn't change the underlying situation.

[Voltaire2]

63. To me the presumption that nobody is

pro abortion is evidence that the right wing framing of the abortion debate has been assimilated by the Democratic Party.

I am pro abortion. It is a safe and effective medical procedure. There is nothing “sad” “tragic” “unfortunate” or whatever other negative adjective one chooses to apply to it. Women who have abortions have not made bad decisions in life.

[digonswine]

86. Sorry for the late response--too busy!!

A couple of things--

since I asked the question, a few things have happened at my school(I am a teacher)

1. A 9th grade student is going to have an abortion-the mother of the patient called in her absence---the other kids know---the shame has begun--the school counselor has been asked to intervene by a few here---she has no call or reason to do so unless it affects things here(it does not)--people at the school(some adults) seem to think it should be prevented----a legal and parent-sanctioned medical procedure bythefuckingway--it seems that some want to increase the shame by involving more people in their "concern"-which it is most certainly not(their concern).

These assholes have power.

If I came out in a full-throated fashion and expressed support to this unfortunate young lady-I do not know what the reaction of the community would be.

I am a teacher surrounded by the same.

When I heard she was having an abortion, my immediate feeling was of relief--not the desire to shame the girl.

BTW--the counselors' roles in advocating for pregnant teens is up in the air. Anyone that expresses the options are taking risks.

So, yes,--I am pro-abortion in many cases.

BTW--I DO realize that we mainly agree here!!

[uriel1972]

62. It is the woman's choice end of story...

You can oppose or agree all you like but it is the woman involved's choice and hers alone.
On further thought if you oppose abortion and oppose safe and effective access to abortion you may not belong here.

[MineralMan]

67. I think it's not for anyone to decide who is not the

pregnant woman. It's none of anyone else's business in any way. The entire controversy is a cosmic waste of time.

If someone is pregnant, that person is the only one to make a decision, either way. Everyone else should simply butt out.

[Mariana]

68. I'm gathering from many of the responses in this thread

that women should be able to have an abortion, but abortion is A Bad Thing and women who make that choice should feel awful about it.

[MineralMan]

69. Some apparently think so. I maintain that it is none of anyone's concern

except for the person who must make the decision. It should simply not be up for discussion, in my opinion.

[Voltaire2]

70. Never fails. Every discussion on abortion several people claim "nobody is pro-abortion".

And the majority of posters repeat some variation on how it is an "unfortunate" choice.

It drives me nuts.

[uriel1972]

73. Abortion is not a "Bad Thing"...

No more than removing an appendix, or a tooth, or even using antibiotics.

It has risks and is should have informed consent involved in their somewhere, but there is no reason for someone to feel that they are "GUILTY" of something or a "BAD PERSON".

[AtheistCrusader]

77. Yep. Right here on DU.

Disappointing, isn't it?

[guillaumeb]

83. Apparently we are reading different threads.

What I am reading speaks of personal choices, and respecting the personal choices of others. Perhaps I missed these many responses of which you speak.

[Mariana]

84. I'm not terribly surprised you missed them, Gil.

The other posters who responded to me didn't have any difficulty seeing them. This affliction appears to be yours alone. Pity. I don't think there's any cure for intentional blindness.

[guillaumeb]

85. I am not terribly surprised that you found them.

People can generally find what they are certain is there.

[Act_of_Reparation]

94. Mansplaining and Christianplaining in the same post.

Keep those privilege bases covered, mon ami. You know better than those uppity womenfolk and their atheist lapdogs, amirite?

[guillaumeb]

95. Jargon and slogan as a substitute for actual dialogue?

I understand.

[Act_of_Reparation]

96. How can anyone dialogue with you when you dismiss them at every turn?

No, you really don't understand. That's the problem. That's been the problem. And that will continue to be the problem.

[guillaumeb]

97. Instead of insults and verbal avoidance,

try actual discussion. When every positive post about theism is met with the same few people who are determined to criticize everything, dialogue is unlikely.

[Act_of_Reparation]

98. You couldn't have posted anything more illustrative of your non-understanding.

So much martyrdom. So little self-awareness.

[guillaumeb]

99. Look in a mirror.

And repeat what you just wrote.

[Act_of_Reparation]

100. You wound me.

[guillaumeb]

101. I feel your pain.

[Act_of_Reparation]

102. I sincerely doubt it.

[guillaumeb]

103. I feel your doubt.

[Mariana]

104. Gil understands what his massive fan club want to see here.

That's the important thing.

[digonswine]

90. Yup

It is fine to abort, as long as you fully realize your moral and ethical failings!

[Iggo]

72. Never needed one. Don't imagine I ever will. (n/t)

[digonswine]

91. Nice for you.

[Iggo]

74. ...but if I ever do need one, I'll get one whether it's legal or not. (n/t)

Last edited Mon Feb 5, 2018, 11:48 AM - Edit history (1)

[digonswine]

92. Oops-just saw the follow-up!!!

[Iggo]

93. Yeah, when I re-read it, I thought basically the same thing you did.

So I did a follow-up to clarify.

[napi21]

79. I think the GOVERNMENT shouldn't have any say in abortion at all!

I'm a Catholic and personally wouldn't ever have an abortion, but it's none of my business what another woman decides to do.

Hoe the hell did the gov't get involved in this issue anyway? I remember when the SCOTUS announced their decision on Roe. There was a lot of mumbling at work but nothing severe. I was young and although I always voted, I didn't pay much attention to day to day politics.

[Farmer-Rick]

80. Abortion is just another medical procedure

I don't see it as moral or immoral. The controversy only comes in because we think we have soul or are somehow special from the animals in our world.

The morality is simply based on an unproven sense of human superiority. Somehow the fetus's failure to develop into a human baby is bad. But when animals lose their fetuses, I've had it happen with my sheep and cats, the animal goes back to it's life and tries again when circumstances are better. I've actually had vets perform removal of fetuses in sick animals. Somehow when embryos or fetuses are lost by other animals, it's all A OK. But don't let that human animal quit developing their fetuses. It makes no sense.

But I'm a man and I'm careful. So, it's easy for me to step back and see it as just a procedure involving the end of the development of a fetus or embryo.

[CrispyQ]

105. The most important decision a woman can make, isn't yours.

That should be the standard democratic response. I hate it when dem politicians tell the public that they are personally against abortion. It reeks of judgmentalism. "I support your right to do it, but I would never do it." Walk a mile in her shoes & then tell me you wouldn't do it. (You being generic, not the personal you.)

[digonswine]

106. Yes, agreed-it also reeks of cowardice-

If you support choice-just support it. Not with a wink and nod to the other side for votes.(again-not YOU you).

[democrattotheend]

108. Define "against abortion"

Do you mean who here believes abortion should be illegal, or who here is personally opposed to abortion?