There Are Many, Many Progressive Christians

[MineralMan]

I know a bunch of them, myself. Individually, as a group, and as members of progressive churches, they have worked hard to promote tolerance, fight bigotry, and support progressive candidates and legislation. They are my friends because of that. They profess Christianity, but welcome me into their close circles, despite my atheism. We sometimes discuss religion, but never fight about it.

On the other hand, there are also many, many people who claim Christianity as their religion who are the exact opposite of those friends of mine. Some promote bigotry and racism, attack LGBTQ people, and generally oppose all progressive ideas. Such people are not my friends. In fact, I try to minimize their influence as much as is possible. I do not discuss religion with them, however.

Both groups claim to be Christians. I accept their declarations of faith. Both groups can point to scripture that supports their viewpoints, because the Bible is a very big book that contains all sorts of passages that can be used for almost any purpose. I accept their identification as Christians, because it is not my role, as an atheist, to dismiss their identification.

What I understand, based on my knowledge of those two groups of people, is that declarations of religious belief or faith have little or nothing to do with the underlying philosophies of people. If two so different groups both identify with Christianity, then so be it. It only goes to show that I cannot make any general statements regarding Christianity and people's ethical or moral behavior.

I cannot assume, then, that someone who tells me he or she is a Christian is either a progressive person or a bigoted person. Their Christianity does not give me any information in that regard. I can only determine that by observing people, listening to what they say, and paying attention to their actions. Then, and only then, can I say what sort of person an individual is.

Religious affiliation does not identify a person. It only identifies what religion in general they claim to follow. It is meaningless in predicting how a person will behave or what that person believes about moral and ethical questions. Telling me that you are a Christian is a meaningless statement, really, of what you are. I'll just wait and see who you are.

[yallerdawg]

1. Bravo!!!

[MineralMan]

2. I have never said anything other than that.

I was prompted to write this after reading a claim that there are no Right-Wing Christian hate sites. There are, indeed, such websites.

While I thank you for your applause, it's unnecessary, really. I'm just restating something I've said before many times.

[yallerdawg]

3. Well, you know what?

On this OP I agree with you 100%, so we'll leave it at that!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. In my experience, when someone claims to be a "Christian"

using that particular term, they tend to be of the conservative/fundamentalist persuasion. I don't want to paint with too broad a brush here, but those of that ilk seem to like to claim the term "Christian" for themselves as an expression of a superior, I'm-going-to-heaven-and-you're-not attitude. The liberal Christians I know (and I know a lot of them) tend to identify themselves by denomination, e.g., Lutheran, Episcopalian, etc. Even that identification is meaningless in terms of whether or not that person is good or moral or ethical, since some liberals are assholes, too.

The reason there are so many different versions of Christians is that the underlying documentation (the New Testament primarily, in its many and varied translations) is susceptible of so many interpretations. There are downright contradictory interpretations of many passages in both the Old and New Testaments, and people can pick and choose the ones that align with and reinforce their personal beliefs and biases. Often it seems people claim God wants them to do the things that they themselves wanted to do in the first place.

I don't agree that a person's religion is completely irrelevant to that person's underlying personal philosophy; I would argue that if a person identifies him/herself as a fundamentalist Christian we can reasonably infer certain things about that person, among them that he/she may have authoritarian follower tendencies. Not all authoritarian followers are bad people, of course; but they will probably be inclined toward conservative politics and may be more amenable to an unthinking acceptance of a strong leader's commands. The fact that evangelical/fundamentalist Christians overwhelmingly voted for Trump (and even Roy Moore) does tell you something about their underlying philosophies. The mere identification of someone as generally Christian (or Jewish or Muslim or atheist or anything else) might not tell you much, but the subspecies identification, as it were, definitely does.

[MineralMan]

5. I'm using the term, Christian, in a general sense.

My usage is the kind of thing that would be on a form where you can indicate your general religious affiliation.

[guillaumeb]

9. I am a Christian.

That statement alone identifies my faith, but nothing else.

[Iggo]

6. Possibly.

But it's pretty much never the ones who feel the need to tell me, "I'm a Christian."

[Voltaire2]

8. Yup.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. Exactly. Many of the people I've met who announced "I'm a Christian"

seemed to be sort of bragging - like "I'm more moral and decent than you because I've got Jesus and you don't." It all depends on context, of course.

[Iggo]

11. Context dependent, for sure.

[Pendrench]

7. Very well said.