Thread for Discussion of Respectful and Disrespectful Dialog in Religion Group

[MineralMan]

Please hold that discussion in this thread, rather than trying to introduce it in other threads that have no conflicts in them.

Thanks. Now, I'll turn this over to whoever wants to argue about that.

[cilla4progress]

1. I find it so interesting, MM,

and please correct me if I’m wrong or misremembering, but I thought you said you had no theology, or words to that effect.

Yet, you are clearly deeply interested in discussing religious issues.

[MineralMan]

2. I do not have any theology or religious beliefs, personally.

However, religion is a powerful force in human societies. As a member of one such society, I find it important to learn about the religions that are powerful in it. So, I have been studying and discussion the most prominent religious organizations in the United States and elsewhere in the world since I was a young lad.

I am a student of human culture and society. It's partly just curiosity, but also is defensive in nature. We, as human beings, have often been involved in deadly conflicts having to do with religious beliefs. I think it's important to understand what is going on around me.

So, that's my explanation of my interest in religions and people who practice them.

[cilla4progress]

6. Well, we definitely

Have this in common!

Almost an anthropological interest...

[d_r]

3. Whats up with that

[Lordquinton]

4. First of all how dare you

[MineralMan]

5. I dare greatly. It is my nature.

A little risky, withal, but nothing ventured...

[trotsky]

7. I feel one impediment to respectful dialog is the insistence by some religious people...

that atheism requires "faith" or is a "belief" or "belief system" of its own.

Theism is the belief that at least one god exists.

Atheism is not having that belief.

Pretty simple, I feel.

[ExciteBike66]

8. Perhaps the problem is partly on the dictionary definition of "atheism"

At least according to MW, atheism can either be

1.) a disbelief, or
2.) a lack of belief

You and I agree on the "lack of belief" definition, while others may focus on the "disbelief" part (which might be taken to mean an active belief that there is no god).


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism

[Lordquinton]

12. Most popular definitions are written by theists

a common problem for minority groups, they have to work hard to define themselves, which is why it's such a hot topic here with particular theists insisting on their definition, while remaining will fully ignorant despite being given the information repeatedly.

[trotsky]

13. Yeah that's always fun.

That is historically how the religious have referred to atheists - active disbelievers, deniers of god, etc. Dictionaries of course reflect those uses of the word, even though they reflect the biases and prejudices of another time.

[Mariana]

21. It would be dishonest to call disbelief a belief.

Dishonesty is not honesty, and disbelief is not belief.

[ExciteBike66]

25. I agree, but in this case the dictionary is kind of to blame.

#notalldictionaries?

Edit: I should have said "partly to blame".

[AtheistCrusader]

10. There is no faster way to piss someone off, than to explain to them what they believe.

(Especially when you're wrong)

[guillaumeb]

9. What are the barriers to respectful dialogue?

Speaking of things common to all sides.

Is it simply the tone of the dialogue?

[MineralMan]

11. I just started the thread. I'm not really going to participate in it.

Not materially, anyhow. You appeared to want such a thread, so I started one for you. Have at it.

[guillaumeb]

16. You already have.

[MineralMan]

18. Not materially. I have answered questions addressed to me.

I'm not discussing the topic of this thread, nor am I continuing beyond an answer.

[trotsky]

14. I identified one above.

How about you identify one?

[guillaumeb]

17. I did in #9.

[trotsky]

19. You stated a question.

You didn't identify one.

Are you claiming that "tone" is a problem? Then make that claim.

[guillaumeb]

26. A rhetorical question.

[trotsky]

27. Oh of course.

It's rhetorical when you don't want to answer it.

Everyone sees through you, gil.

[Mariana]

22. You asked questions in #9, Gil.

You didn't identify anything. You made no statement of any kind. You asked questions.

This kind of casual dishonesty is very disrespectful. It is certainly a barrier to respectful dialog.

Edited for clarity.

[trotsky]

28. I became convinced long ago that he just doesn't care.

His goal clearly is not respectful dialog. It's to prevent a point of view from being heard.

[Lordquinton]

15. You already had that thread, still active I think

Did you not get a satisfactory answer?

[Iggo]

20. .

Good luck.

[PragmaticDem]

23. It is a contentious topic and sometimes cooler heads do not prevail.

I know I fall short and could be a hypocrite.

[Cartoonist]

24. No respect

I have no respect for religion. I have no respect for any organization that oppresses people, subjugates women, and spreads hate towards others.

It is very hard for me to bite my tongue when someone who does support such an organization comes here and tells us how wonderful religion is.

Can I maintain a respectful dialogue? I've had a few posts hidden.

[guillaumeb]

29. A very one-sided view indeed.

But I believe such views should never be hidden. I would rather read all points of view and respond if I feel the inclination.