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MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 01:31 PM Jan 2018

I wish we could have more active members of this group who

have other than Christian religious beliefs or non-belief. We appear to have primarily Christians and atheists as active participants. While that is interesting, to be sure, we're missing a number of other perspectives on religious belief. So, if you're reading this and are neither a Christian nor a non-believer, please feel free to chime in with your thoughts on your own religious beliefs.

This is the Religion Group, and is open to all DUers, regardless of their positions on religion. It does not favor any particular belief or non-belief. We would benefit from additional perspectives, I'm certain.



67 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I wish we could have more active members of this group who (Original Post) MineralMan Jan 2018 OP
I believe in aliens, they are coming and soon. Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #1
I fear that I am without any Xbox or other similar devices. MineralMan Jan 2018 #2
I worship at the device by screaming at Microsoft for never having the server working Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #5
Well, I can see how driving that way would be far safer MineralMan Jan 2018 #8
Catholic AND born-again? trotsky Jan 2018 #3
Loooong story, believe it or not my born again experience happened Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #4
Addiction is a monster, absolutely. trotsky Jan 2018 #6
Recovering Catholic, now Unitarian. redstatebluegirl Jan 2018 #7
Unitarian Universalist? MineralMan Jan 2018 #10
Yes, I normally say UU but some don't know what that is. redstatebluegirl Jan 2018 #11
OK. Thanks. That helps me to understand your search. MineralMan Jan 2018 #13
I am also UU cilla4progress Jan 2018 #16
Very inclusive, indeed. MineralMan Jan 2018 #22
Confusing cilla4progress Jan 2018 #27
There are several types of Unitarianism. MineralMan Jan 2018 #28
Yes, cilla4progress Jan 2018 #30
There is also Christian Unitarianism, which is a non-trinitarian Christian MineralMan Jan 2018 #32
Ahh - cilla4progress Jan 2018 #45
I am agnostic more than atheist thbobby Jan 2018 #9
That seems to be a common issue. MineralMan Jan 2018 #12
Trying to be esoteric (difficult for me) thbobby Jan 2018 #17
Well, I see all of that stuff as simply how the universe is. MineralMan Jan 2018 #18
I agree with you thbobby Jan 2018 #21
I think it's possible for anyone to understand the universe on some level. MineralMan Jan 2018 #23
Pagan cilla4progress Jan 2018 #14
Thank you. I hope you'll join some of the discussions with your MineralMan Jan 2018 #15
Thanks, cilla4progress Jan 2018 #19
OK. I can understand that point of view, for sure. MineralMan Jan 2018 #20
I would love to have cilla4progress Jan 2018 #29
While it may seem so, that's probably because my ethical compass MineralMan Jan 2018 #31
I often say that my religion is cilla4progress Jan 2018 #46
Well, we are all affected, anyhow. MineralMan Jan 2018 #47
Defensive cilla4progress Jan 2018 #50
There are religous people who wish others ill, and MineralMan Jan 2018 #52
Because of my benign religious background cilla4progress Jan 2018 #57
Well, there is the fight against LGBTQ rights by MineralMan Jan 2018 #59
Ok, cilla4progress Jan 2018 #60
I would agree. PragmaticDem Jan 2018 #24
We would likely learn all the things religions have in common MineralMan Jan 2018 #54
I am a former christian who converted to Judaism Gothmog Jan 2018 #25
It appears that you have gone back in time. MineralMan Jan 2018 #26
I was agnostic, became Christian, studied Judaism with an eye to convert, and am now Pagan. Still Blue in PDX Jan 2018 #62
We would also benefit from respectful dialogue. eom guillaumeb Jan 2018 #33
Where does any disrespectful dialog appear in this thread? MineralMan Jan 2018 #34
Speaking of the religion group as a whole. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #35
This thread has a theme. If you want to talk about something else, MineralMan Jan 2018 #36
Are there rules for each thread? guillaumeb Jan 2018 #38
See this link for your preferred topic. MineralMan Jan 2018 #41
My comment stands. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #43
.. MineralMan Jan 2018 #44
And that starts with not defining other's beliefs (or lack thereof). trotsky Jan 2018 #37
Sorry, I have been asked to stay on topic. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #40
Here's a thread all pre-made for that argument. MineralMan Jan 2018 #42
Perfect! trotsky Jan 2018 #51
My pleasure. MineralMan Jan 2018 #53
I have created a new thread for the topic you introduced. MineralMan Jan 2018 #39
Royal 'we' again, huh? AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #61
Another misunderstanding? guillaumeb Jan 2018 #64
Unlikely. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #67
Raised loosely Episcopalian Lordquinton Jan 2018 #48
Thank you for that insight. MineralMan Jan 2018 #49
Growing up Methodist, drafted into baptism, preached born again... pbmus Jan 2018 #55
We're the same age. It takes a long time to learn everything. MineralMan Jan 2018 #56
Another UU here. 3catwoman3 Jan 2018 #58
Jew edhopper Jan 2018 #63
and again you forget about the agnostics Angry Dragon Jan 2018 #65
No, but I sure wish you'd MineralMan Jan 2018 #66

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
1. I believe in aliens, they are coming and soon.
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 01:33 PM
Jan 2018

I believe my Xbox connection "disconnected from server" pisses me off to no end since it says that 95% of the time

Oops, sorry, that isnt what you wanted to talk about.


BTW, I am former born again xtian, catholic school 12 years, etc.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
5. I worship at the device by screaming at Microsoft for never having the server working
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 01:41 PM
Jan 2018

I didnt do games until of all things one day I was watching Matthew Perry interviewed, probably 10 or so years ago, and he admitted he was a video game junkie.

I proceeded to find a racing game and a wheel/pedals/stand and that is what I do, hours at a time.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
8. Well, I can see how driving that way would be far safer
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 01:44 PM
Jan 2018

than actually venturing out on the roadways. That's especially true today in Minnesota. There is much ice on the roads, and people seem to be colliding with each other. Maybe they could stay home and drive as you do.

Sadly, I can't help you with your server connectivity issues...

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
4. Loooong story, believe it or not my born again experience happened
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 01:39 PM
Jan 2018

on the tail end of a bender, years ago, watching JIM BAKKER, believe it or not.

I finally figured out it was all bullshit, as was my position during catholic school, but struggling with any kind of addiction can fuck with you and make you believe stuff to get out of pain, i guess.

I am now an atheist.

cilla4progress

(24,736 posts)
30. Yes,
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 02:45 PM
Jan 2018

And they are bound by 7 underlying principles:

1st Principle: The inherent worth and dignity of every person;

2nd Principle: Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;

3rd Principle: Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;

4th Principle: A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;

5th Principle: The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;

6th Principle: The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;

7th Principle: Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

In my conservative town, it is the UUs here who consistently show up on issues of environmentalism, women’s issues, social justice and at Dem party events.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
32. There is also Christian Unitarianism, which is a non-trinitarian Christian
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 02:48 PM
Jan 2018

denomination. There are subsets of that, as well. It is quite different from UU.

thbobby

(1,474 posts)
9. I am agnostic more than atheist
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 01:46 PM
Jan 2018

There may be a god. But what it is is a mystery. Could be many things. I also believe to anthropomorphize of said god is very dangerous and has resulted in much death, misery, and hatred. An all-powerful and loving god has to have a set of morals different from mine. I can almost understand how the suffering of people who have lived years can be explained, but babies are starving to death as I type this.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
12. That seems to be a common issue.
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 01:49 PM
Jan 2018

Suffering appears to be universal. That raises many questions, doesn't it? It's one of the reasons I am an atheist. I can't imagine an omnipotent deity that would allow such suffering to occur. So, my view is that no such entity exists. I am unable to believe in such entities.

thbobby

(1,474 posts)
17. Trying to be esoteric (difficult for me)
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 01:56 PM
Jan 2018

Many of the parameters of the universe (strength of gravity, the charge of an electron, and others) seem to be fine-tuned to allow complexity and life. Perhaps god or something created the universe in such a way that life would develop and survival of the fittest would guide what it would develop into. Would, I guess, explain why suffering is universal.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
18. Well, I see all of that stuff as simply how the universe is.
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 02:00 PM
Jan 2018

Gravity is. Physics is. We can describe it all, to some degree, but cannot change any of it, because that is how it is.

I don't see the need for an intelligent creator. It all just is what it is. I'm OK with that. I'm part of it. For now. I'm OK with observing it and attempting to survive in it.

thbobby

(1,474 posts)
21. I agree with you
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 02:08 PM
Jan 2018

Perhaps it is just part of the human psyche to want a creator. I do dance around being agnostic or atheist. The concept of what the universe is and what use time is in describing it is beyond my understanding.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
23. I think it's possible for anyone to understand the universe on some level.
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 02:17 PM
Jan 2018

But, since I also think it's impossible to completely understand it, since we are part of it and cannot step outside of it, whatever level that can be understood is adequate. That's my opinion. There are simple explanations of almost everything that are accurate as far as they go. One can learn to whatever depth one wants, I think.

For example, Newtonian Physics is more than adequate for understanding the things that happen in our daily lives. It isn't adequate if you're messing around with explanations of star formation or time/space issues. But, if you don't need to understand those things, the simple physics we all learned in school will do just fine. It's a subset of physics.

Every field of science is similar in that way. One can learn however much is useful or desired, as subset of the current state of advanced knowledge in any of the sciences. If you want or need to learn more, resources are always available.

cilla4progress

(24,736 posts)
19. Thanks,
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 02:01 PM
Jan 2018

MM.

My belief system around Paganism has nothing to do with genesis - that is, where did this all come from, nor with some all-powerful force, other THAN nature. In fact, nature itself is agnostic; sparing those both “guilty” and innocent in its wake. So, no
bennies, per se, for being a good person.

My theology around Paganism is simply the divinity and sacredness I find in nature. The conviction that there IS something larger than myself, that far outpaces my single self, and that we were truly born into a Garden.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
20. OK. I can understand that point of view, for sure.
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 02:03 PM
Jan 2018

For me, it's a sense of wonder at everything. That leads me to try to understand it as well as I can, but doesn't involve any need to believe that it was created by something. It's easy for me to simply see that it all exists and can be observed.

cilla4progress

(24,736 posts)
29. I would love to have
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 02:40 PM
Jan 2018

a Buddhist perspective here, because MM, your comments indicate resonance with that belief system. You must know this?

By the way, there are also Buddhists, as well as Christians, Jews, and Humanists, who have their own constituent groups within UU.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
31. While it may seem so, that's probably because my ethical compass
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 02:46 PM
Jan 2018

is an amalgam of the values held in common by pretty much all religions and cultures. Buddhism, of course, shares the same values, and I'm a non-theist, so I might appear to be closer to Buddhism than Christianity.

However, I'm not a Buddhist. I do not share the most common Buddhist views of cosmology and eschatology. I do not share a belief in a cyclical live, death and rebirth. Nor do I share many of the other beliefs that do not have to do with the physical universe as it exists.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
47. Well, we are all affected, anyhow.
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 03:38 PM
Jan 2018

Societies are complex, and everyone who lives in a society is affected by all large groups that form in that society. It's wise, I think, to try to understand those groups, for defensive reasons alone. Besides it's interesting to learn about such things.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
52. There are religous people who wish others ill, and
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 04:08 PM
Jan 2018

sometimes people who carry out those wishes in real life. Ask anyone who has been harmed in the name of religion. Yes, defensive reasons.

cilla4progress

(24,736 posts)
57. Because of my benign religious background
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 05:39 PM
Jan 2018

I’m not following. Would you be willing to give me a few examples?

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
59. Well, there is the fight against LGBTQ rights by
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 09:04 PM
Jan 2018

the Catholic and other churches. The battle against reproductive choice by the same groups. Hiding sexual abuse of children by clergy. Many people have been,x and are being, harmed by religious people. And that's in modern times. Historically, it's far worse.

Stuff like that...

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
54. We would likely learn all the things religions have in common
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 04:36 PM
Jan 2018

with each other. That would be a revelation, I'm sure. The more I've looked at various religions, the more alike they seem to me in the most important areas. Those are the areas that describe how humans should treat each other, as far as I'm concerned. So, I'm all for people learning about other belief systems. In fact, I think it's a very valuable thing to study.

Gothmog

(145,291 posts)
25. I am a former christian who converted to Judaism
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 02:32 PM
Jan 2018

I found a home with Judaism. I am pleased to see that my children are thriving as members of this faith.

Still Blue in PDX

(1,999 posts)
62. I was agnostic, became Christian, studied Judaism with an eye to convert, and am now Pagan.
Fri Jan 12, 2018, 08:24 PM
Jan 2018

I thought of it as getting back to becoming one of those Other People outside the Garden.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
36. This thread has a theme. If you want to talk about something else,
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 03:21 PM
Jan 2018

why not start a new thread, please, rather than trying to switch the topic of this one to one on respectful and disrespectful dialog? This thread has been friendly, interesting, and no disrespect has been shown to anyone in it.

If you want a different discussion, just click the Start a Discussion button in the Group's thread list, please. You are way off topic for this particular thread, and I'd appreciate keeping it on track.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
38. Are there rules for each thread?
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 03:29 PM
Jan 2018

What an interesting concept, if one that is never actually followed by anyone here.

But on this narrow topic, and in your spirit of teaching, there are groups for interfaith and Muslim and other spiritual paths. If anyone wishes to know more it is possible to research the Forums and Groups page.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
41. See this link for your preferred topic.
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 03:31 PM
Jan 2018
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218266574

I'm asking you politely to take your argument elsewhere. This is a friendly thread about a different topic.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
37. And that starts with not defining other's beliefs (or lack thereof).
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 03:23 PM
Jan 2018

Will you please state, here and now, that you will no longer define atheism as a belief?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
40. Sorry, I have been asked to stay on topic.
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 03:30 PM
Jan 2018

Apparently cross threads and sub-threads are not desired.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
48. Raised loosely Episcopalian
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 03:47 PM
Jan 2018

Mother was Catholic. Became atheist somewhere along the way. Really found that identity through the internet, back in the day when there were several good atheists making videos, sadly a lot of them went to the whole gamers gate and other non-atheist stuff so I left them behind. Found the a&a group here on DU and met like minded folks.

pbmus

(12,422 posts)
55. Growing up Methodist, drafted into baptism, preached born again...
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 04:38 PM
Jan 2018

Studied over 50 translations of bible, tried agnosticism, learning the “Way things are”

72 Trips around the sun and still trying to get things right.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
56. We're the same age. It takes a long time to learn everything.
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 04:40 PM
Jan 2018

I somehow doubt I'll live long enough.

3catwoman3

(24,003 posts)
58. Another UU here.
Thu Jan 11, 2018, 05:59 PM
Jan 2018

I usually think of myself as a happily questioning agnostic. It seems I was a questioner from early one - one of my mother's favorite stories about me, soemwhere between age 5-7, was the time I asked her if we could please say "Ah-ladies" at the end of bedtime prayers rather than "A-men."

I was raised casually Presbyterian, and always felt that my parents took us to church becuase they thought they ought to (it was the 1950s), an not because faith had any major meaning in their lives. We didn't discuss religion at home, and we didn't read "the" Bible together.

In high school, i beonged to a Young Life group for a couple of years, more for the socail aspects than the spiritual, as I look back. I don't thinnk it was as fundamentalist then as it is now. Altho, at that time, I bought into the accepting JC as your savior thing, I was never entirely comfortable with it, and didn't feel like I was fully committed, becuase I could NOT make myself do the whole witnessing thing to try to persuade others to accept that idea. Just plain could not.

Nor could I get comfortable with the idea that anyoone who had not accepted Jesus was going to hell. That whole, "No one gets to the Father except by me," thing. Were that "except by me" idea to be true, it's one thing if someone has heard the salvation message and chooses not to accept it - a choice has been made. It would be entirely something else for someone to be denied whatever salvation there might be becuase they never had a chance to hear the message. How unfair would THAT be?

Here's my take on the importance of welcoming a variety of spiritual frameworks:

- I'm a mom, and a pediatric nurse practitioner. My sons are now 27 and 25. There were many things I wanted to teach them as they were growing up. If I explained something important to them one way, and they didn't "get it," I would try as many other explanations as it took until I'd made my point. (Not all ot once, of course.)

- As a nurse practitioner, I must do the same thing - if I am trying to explain an illness and a treatment plan to a parent, I'd better have a vareity of ways to do so in case I don't see the light of understanding in the parent's eyes the first time. Failure to make things clear could have a really bad outcome.

Here's something else I am quite firm about. I can believe something "with all my heart," as the saying goes. My belief in something has NO influence about whatever really IS. None of us knows what might be after this existence that we are experencing right now. I'm OK with not knowing. I'm intrigued by the idea of reincarnation. I hope there is life on other planets. Who can prove or disprove that we are not all part of someon else's imagination?

Questioning and specculating is fun and fascinating.

edhopper

(33,580 posts)
63. Jew
Sat Jan 13, 2018, 10:01 AM
Jan 2018

who no longer believes.

The reason I still call myself a Jew, though I am an atheist, is because there is a cultural element to being Jewish.
Also, no matter my lack of beliefs, I will always be regarded as a Jew by others.

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