Religion
Related: About this forumI wish we could have more active members of this group who
have other than Christian religious beliefs or non-belief. We appear to have primarily Christians and atheists as active participants. While that is interesting, to be sure, we're missing a number of other perspectives on religious belief. So, if you're reading this and are neither a Christian nor a non-believer, please feel free to chime in with your thoughts on your own religious beliefs.
This is the Religion Group, and is open to all DUers, regardless of their positions on religion. It does not favor any particular belief or non-belief. We would benefit from additional perspectives, I'm certain.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)I believe my Xbox connection "disconnected from server" pisses me off to no end since it says that 95% of the time
Oops, sorry, that isnt what you wanted to talk about.
BTW, I am former born again xtian, catholic school 12 years, etc.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Can one worship with such a device? LOL!
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)I didnt do games until of all things one day I was watching Matthew Perry interviewed, probably 10 or so years ago, and he admitted he was a video game junkie.
I proceeded to find a racing game and a wheel/pedals/stand and that is what I do, hours at a time.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)than actually venturing out on the roadways. That's especially true today in Minnesota. There is much ice on the roads, and people seem to be colliding with each other. Maybe they could stay home and drive as you do.
Sadly, I can't help you with your server connectivity issues...
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Wow, what a journey you've had.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)on the tail end of a bender, years ago, watching JIM BAKKER, believe it or not.
I finally figured out it was all bullshit, as was my position during catholic school, but struggling with any kind of addiction can fuck with you and make you believe stuff to get out of pain, i guess.
I am now an atheist.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Good to have a perspective like yours around here!
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)It can be confusing, Unitarianism can.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)UU pagan.
UUs are the only mainstream religion that recognizes Pagans as a constituent group!
https://www.uua.org/offices/organizations/covenant-unitarian-universalist-pagans
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)How?
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)And they are bound by 7 underlying principles:
1st Principle: The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
2nd Principle: Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
3rd Principle: Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
4th Principle: A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
5th Principle: The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
6th Principle: The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
7th Principle: Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
In my conservative town, it is the UUs here who consistently show up on issues of environmentalism, womens issues, social justice and at Dem party events.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)denomination. There are subsets of that, as well. It is quite different from UU.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)did not know that. Thanks!
thbobby
(1,474 posts)There may be a god. But what it is is a mystery. Could be many things. I also believe to anthropomorphize of said god is very dangerous and has resulted in much death, misery, and hatred. An all-powerful and loving god has to have a set of morals different from mine. I can almost understand how the suffering of people who have lived years can be explained, but babies are starving to death as I type this.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Suffering appears to be universal. That raises many questions, doesn't it? It's one of the reasons I am an atheist. I can't imagine an omnipotent deity that would allow such suffering to occur. So, my view is that no such entity exists. I am unable to believe in such entities.
thbobby
(1,474 posts)Many of the parameters of the universe (strength of gravity, the charge of an electron, and others) seem to be fine-tuned to allow complexity and life. Perhaps god or something created the universe in such a way that life would develop and survival of the fittest would guide what it would develop into. Would, I guess, explain why suffering is universal.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Gravity is. Physics is. We can describe it all, to some degree, but cannot change any of it, because that is how it is.
I don't see the need for an intelligent creator. It all just is what it is. I'm OK with that. I'm part of it. For now. I'm OK with observing it and attempting to survive in it.
thbobby
(1,474 posts)Perhaps it is just part of the human psyche to want a creator. I do dance around being agnostic or atheist. The concept of what the universe is and what use time is in describing it is beyond my understanding.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)But, since I also think it's impossible to completely understand it, since we are part of it and cannot step outside of it, whatever level that can be understood is adequate. That's my opinion. There are simple explanations of almost everything that are accurate as far as they go. One can learn to whatever depth one wants, I think.
For example, Newtonian Physics is more than adequate for understanding the things that happen in our daily lives. It isn't adequate if you're messing around with explanations of star formation or time/space issues. But, if you don't need to understand those things, the simple physics we all learned in school will do just fine. It's a subset of physics.
Every field of science is similar in that way. One can learn however much is useful or desired, as subset of the current state of advanced knowledge in any of the sciences. If you want or need to learn more, resources are always available.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)perspective.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)MM.
My belief system around Paganism has nothing to do with genesis - that is, where did this all come from, nor with some all-powerful force, other THAN nature. In fact, nature itself is agnostic; sparing those both guilty and innocent in its wake. So, no
bennies, per se, for being a good person.
My theology around Paganism is simply the divinity and sacredness I find in nature. The conviction that there IS something larger than myself, that far outpaces my single self, and that we were truly born into a Garden.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)For me, it's a sense of wonder at everything. That leads me to try to understand it as well as I can, but doesn't involve any need to believe that it was created by something. It's easy for me to simply see that it all exists and can be observed.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)a Buddhist perspective here, because MM, your comments indicate resonance with that belief system. You must know this?
By the way, there are also Buddhists, as well as Christians, Jews, and Humanists, who have their own constituent groups within UU.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)is an amalgam of the values held in common by pretty much all religions and cultures. Buddhism, of course, shares the same values, and I'm a non-theist, so I might appear to be closer to Buddhism than Christianity.
However, I'm not a Buddhist. I do not share the most common Buddhist views of cosmology and eschatology. I do not share a belief in a cyclical live, death and rebirth. Nor do I share many of the other beliefs that do not have to do with the physical universe as it exists.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)We are all connected.
This is a basic precept of all major religions.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Societies are complex, and everyone who lives in a society is affected by all large groups that form in that society. It's wise, I think, to try to understand those groups, for defensive reasons alone. Besides it's interesting to learn about such things.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)reasons?
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)sometimes people who carry out those wishes in real life. Ask anyone who has been harmed in the name of religion. Yes, defensive reasons.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)Im not following. Would you be willing to give me a few examples?
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)the Catholic and other churches. The battle against reproductive choice by the same groups. Hiding sexual abuse of children by clergy. Many people have been,x and are being, harmed by religious people. And that's in modern times. Historically, it's far worse.
Stuff like that...
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)Thank you.
PragmaticDem
(320 posts)There are so many religions out there that we could learn from.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)with each other. That would be a revelation, I'm sure. The more I've looked at various religions, the more alike they seem to me in the most important areas. Those are the areas that describe how humans should treat each other, as far as I'm concerned. So, I'm all for people learning about other belief systems. In fact, I think it's a very valuable thing to study.
Gothmog
(145,291 posts)I found a home with Judaism. I am pleased to see that my children are thriving as members of this faith.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Still Blue in PDX
(1,999 posts)I thought of it as getting back to becoming one of those Other People outside the Garden.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Please point it out for me. Thanks.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Not this thread.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)why not start a new thread, please, rather than trying to switch the topic of this one to one on respectful and disrespectful dialog? This thread has been friendly, interesting, and no disrespect has been shown to anyone in it.
If you want a different discussion, just click the Start a Discussion button in the Group's thread list, please. You are way off topic for this particular thread, and I'd appreciate keeping it on track.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)What an interesting concept, if one that is never actually followed by anyone here.
But on this narrow topic, and in your spirit of teaching, there are groups for interfaith and Muslim and other spiritual paths. If anyone wishes to know more it is possible to research the Forums and Groups page.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)I'm asking you politely to take your argument elsewhere. This is a friendly thread about a different topic.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Sub-threads are everywhere.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)Will you please state, here and now, that you will no longer define atheism as a belief?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Apparently cross threads and sub-threads are not desired.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)Thanks!
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)You're welcome to post your arguments there.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218266574
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Oh well.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Mother was Catholic. Became atheist somewhere along the way. Really found that identity through the internet, back in the day when there were several good atheists making videos, sadly a lot of them went to the whole gamers gate and other non-atheist stuff so I left them behind. Found the a&a group here on DU and met like minded folks.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)pbmus
(12,422 posts)Studied over 50 translations of bible, tried agnosticism, learning the Way things are
72 Trips around the sun and still trying to get things right.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)I somehow doubt I'll live long enough.
3catwoman3
(24,003 posts)I usually think of myself as a happily questioning agnostic. It seems I was a questioner from early one - one of my mother's favorite stories about me, soemwhere between age 5-7, was the time I asked her if we could please say "Ah-ladies" at the end of bedtime prayers rather than "A-men."
I was raised casually Presbyterian, and always felt that my parents took us to church becuase they thought they ought to (it was the 1950s), an not because faith had any major meaning in their lives. We didn't discuss religion at home, and we didn't read "the" Bible together.
In high school, i beonged to a Young Life group for a couple of years, more for the socail aspects than the spiritual, as I look back. I don't thinnk it was as fundamentalist then as it is now. Altho, at that time, I bought into the accepting JC as your savior thing, I was never entirely comfortable with it, and didn't feel like I was fully committed, becuase I could NOT make myself do the whole witnessing thing to try to persuade others to accept that idea. Just plain could not.
Nor could I get comfortable with the idea that anyoone who had not accepted Jesus was going to hell. That whole, "No one gets to the Father except by me," thing. Were that "except by me" idea to be true, it's one thing if someone has heard the salvation message and chooses not to accept it - a choice has been made. It would be entirely something else for someone to be denied whatever salvation there might be becuase they never had a chance to hear the message. How unfair would THAT be?
Here's my take on the importance of welcoming a variety of spiritual frameworks:
- I'm a mom, and a pediatric nurse practitioner. My sons are now 27 and 25. There were many things I wanted to teach them as they were growing up. If I explained something important to them one way, and they didn't "get it," I would try as many other explanations as it took until I'd made my point. (Not all ot once, of course.)
- As a nurse practitioner, I must do the same thing - if I am trying to explain an illness and a treatment plan to a parent, I'd better have a vareity of ways to do so in case I don't see the light of understanding in the parent's eyes the first time. Failure to make things clear could have a really bad outcome.
Here's something else I am quite firm about. I can believe something "with all my heart," as the saying goes. My belief in something has NO influence about whatever really IS. None of us knows what might be after this existence that we are experencing right now. I'm OK with not knowing. I'm intrigued by the idea of reincarnation. I hope there is life on other planets. Who can prove or disprove that we are not all part of someon else's imagination?
Questioning and specculating is fun and fascinating.
edhopper
(33,580 posts)who no longer believes.
The reason I still call myself a Jew, though I am an atheist, is because there is a cultural element to being Jewish.
Also, no matter my lack of beliefs, I will always be regarded as a Jew by others.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)make up your mind.