Progressive Christians can embrace Paul too

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

Conservatives champion Paul, quoting his writings to support their arguments. For progressives, Paul is often a source of disdain. To them, Paul hates women, condones slavery, hates gay people and is sexually repressed. And the biggie: Paul didn’t even know Jesus when he was alive, so we can’t take him seriously. How could anything this usurper offers be useful to progressive causes?
This doesn’t have to be. While Paul falls short of our current progressive demands, he was a trailblazer for his time. Most people who lived 2,000 years ago – including Jesus – would fail to live up to our current understanding of equality.

An interesting piece that examines how Paul is looked at, and the controversy over who wrote what.

To read more:

http://religionnews.com/2017/12/12/progressive-christians-can-embrace-paul-too/

[safeinOhio]

1. Another view

problemswithpaul.com

[safeinOhio]

2. Sorry cant

Cut and paste on my phone.

[guillaumeb]

3. Allow me:

http://problemswithpaul.com/

As the article notes, part of the problem is deciding which Books attributed to Paul were actually written by Paul.

[safeinOhio]

4. Thanks

Here is an interesting Christian sect to look at for progressives. Again you’ll have to cut and paste.

Redletterchristains.org

[guillaumeb]

5. Thank you.

Without looking, I would assume that this refers to the Jefferson Bible. Now I will look.

https://www.redletterchristians.org/

[guillaumeb]

6. I spent a few minutess reading one article,

and I will add this to my list.

Thank you.

[trotsky]

7. LOL

You bet. Just throw out all the misogyny, the homophobia, the bigotry, the sanctimoniousness, and what you've got left ain't so bad.

Of course it's only about 3 sentences left at that point but hey, embrace away!

[Lordquinton]

9. I don't understand the need to redeem every aspect

Like, just get rid of that stuff, fix the bad parts, they did once before. More than once.

[trotsky]

10. They just don't understand how leaving the bad parts, but ignoring them...

or claiming they aren't important, means the bad parts ARE STILL THERE and available for anyone else to come along and say, "hey, this is in the bible!"

[Lordquinton]

13. You're not supposed to literally read those parts

All interpretation, or history. Nevermind it's a history of oppression.

And of course being contrary to atheists is waaaaay more important than self reflection.

[guillaumeb]

12. Fix the bad parts?

The bad parts, as you put it, are part of humanity. So how do you propose to fix these bad parts?

[Cartoonist]

14. Slavery for example

We abolish it. That's how you fix it.

Christian and Jewish leaders hold a summit and condemn those passages in the Bible. They are then removed. That's how you fix it.

As long as those passages remain in the Bible, then the Bible supports slavery. Nice book you got.

[guillaumeb]

11. Yes, embrace perfection and condemn everyone else.

Now, point out the perfect person.

[trotsky]

15. This isn't about perfection.

It's about recognizing a bigoted, judgmental asshole.

Nice try at reframing though.

[guillaumeb]

16. No, it is about perfection, and your attempt to hold anyone

to that standard.

[trotsky]

17. Nope, that's your false claim.

I'm sorry Paul is such an asshole and you have to excuse a bunch of the stuff he (allegedly) wrote.

[guillaumeb]

19. If you actually read the article,

your objections might be seen differently.

[trotsky]

20. They might, or they might not.

You have chosen to accept someone else's opinion. Not everyone has to agree with your choices.

[trotsky]

22. My objections remain.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=263148

[Act_of_Reparation]

8. "Most people who lived 2,00 years ago -- including Jesus -- would fail to live up...

...to our current understanding of equality"

A timeless, omniscient, omnibenevolent deity made flesh would fail to live up our current understanding of equality? As would the man he personally directed to evangelize his message?

FASCINATING.

[MineralMan]

18. Sure. All they have to do is reject that ugly stuff.

But, wait...It's all scripture, right? Dictated by the deity itself, right? Never mind.

Paulism has replaced Christianity among many Christians, it seems. One only has to look at the readings for the entire liturgical calendar for many denominations to discover that. Oh, Jesus is still in there, but it's Paul who is telling people what to think and how to act.

The Paulist Gentile Church of Christ.

Heck, the Mormons have succeeded with a similar approach. Why not?

[trotsky]

21. Even after discarding the letters you don't like...

In other words, we have seven letters certainly from the historical Paul (Romans, 1-2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, Philemon), three others probably not from him (Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians) and a final three certainly not from him (1-2 Timothy, Titus).

(From HuffPo)

...you have such disgusting pieces of filth like:

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

(This is blatant bigotry and the source of much hatred against non-believers, claiming that we KNOW about god but choose to reject him because we are wicked. This is foul, disgusting bullshit, guillaumeb, and you should be ashamed to embrace Paul.)

or:

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.

(Which supports how bigots like Kim Davis and the religious right judge others and oppose LGBT rights, reproductive freedom, and religious freedom.)

or how about:

3 Not only so, but we[c] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope.

(That's the foundation of "Mother" Teresa's bullshit hospitals where patients were denied painkillers because she and her church believe that suffering is beautiful.)

and then there's this gem:

10 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

(This is the foundation of a much anti-Semitism and judgment against non-believers.)

Now all these passages are just from Romans, not even looking at other letters yet.

Lovely guy, that Paul.

Nice you are a fan, gil, but you need to understand why it's OK for many of us to not embrace the man. And ALSO understand that HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of Christians DO accept all the letters (including both Timothys and Titus), and their belief is just as valid as yours.

Paul was a hateful bigot.