Good news: Catholic bishops take on racism in society and the church

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

The head of the U.S. Catholic bishops’ anti-racism task force told his colleagues that racism “lives in a particular and pernicious way” in the United States.

To read more:

http://religionnews.com/2017/11/13/catholic-bishops-take-on-racism-in-society-and-the-church/

[Angry Dragon]

1. Sure took them long enough--- what were they waiting for?? the second coming??

[guillaumeb]

2. Good news or bad news?

[Angry Dragon]

3. You did not answer my question

No news

[guillaumeb]

4. Ask the Bishops.

Sorry to post something that might be read as putting religion in a positive light.

[Angry Dragon]

5. Why is it that you post stuff and put none of yourself in the game

What does helping people have to do with religion??
You make it sound as if without religion these people would do nothing
The true test of the good soul is doing something for someone without strings attached

OH LOOK AT ME, I AM DOING SOMETHING GOOD BECAUSE i AM A GOOD CHRISTIAN

[guillaumeb]

6. As I said, sorry to post good news as well as bad news.

Do some here feel that this group is restricted to bad news and criticism? I did not see that in the description.

Edited to add:

Discuss religious and theological issues. All relevant topics are permitted. Believers, non-believers, and everyone in-between are welcome.

[Angry Dragon]

7. Post what you want about religion--------I do not care

What I care about is that you answer questions put to you
I am suppose to get exited about some religious leaders finally after almost 2000 years to decide that they should do something about helping the poor??

And you still have not answered the questions put to YOU.....
That really pisses me off

Non christians have tried to help the poor for ever-----with no strings attached, what makes it so important that the church is now just deciding to do something about that problem??

[guillaumeb]

8. To the last first:

This is the religion forum.

Second, I am still waiting for answers from many questions posed to a few non-theists here. Simply following their example.

Third, are you stating that the RCC has done nothing for the last 2000 years to help the poor? That is what I am reading.

[Angry Dragon]

9. The last first-------Did they attach strings to that help??

Second---- I really do not care what someone owes you----Take it up with them, not me-------I believe I have always answered you-----so do not behave like a 2 year old with me

Last ----- yes this the religion forum

[Mariana]

10. "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Except when you don't feel like it, I guess. Then just do whatever the fuck you want, because it's a real drag to actually practice what you call Christianity. That must be what Christ really meant when he said, "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

[marylandblue]

12. Guillameb is not a Christian

A statement sure to get his attention, with the most likely response being "someone who follows the teachings of Jesus is not a Christian?" To which presumed question I Rreply "Someone who does not follow the teachings of Christ is not a Christian." Having already given this response, he is most likely going to say nothing, but go ahead guillameb, please give me a pleasant surprise.

[Mariana]

16. It's an unusual kind of Christianity, to be sure.

But, it's not up to me to determine whether it's real Christianity. Gil says he's a Christian, so I'll take him at his word.

[trotsky]

17. From what I've encountered, it's a fairly common form of it.

A liberal/intellectual form that morphs as the situation requires. When a discussion of facts and evidence comes up, then their god shrinks to a vague "creator type" entity with no actual features to discern. But when the eyes of analysis turn away, or they are with fellow believers, then all the traditional Christian features come back and the "creator" becomes Yahweh again, and Jesus died for our sins, and turned water into wine, and rose from the dead, yada yada.

Frustrating to be sure, because it's quite an intellectually dishonest thing to do, but it's like a kind of survival mechanism that allows them not to have to critically analyze their own beliefs - that's for "creator mode" where no analysis is possible. Problem solved.

[marylandblue]

26. At least they sincerely believe it

To the extent he has any discernable beliefs at all, he doesn't really appear to believe them.

[marylandblue]

29. I've never actually doubted anyone's word about it before

But since he seems to take nothing literally, not the Bible, not even his own words, he can't be a literal Christian. He says a Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus, but since he does not follow them, he is not a Christian.

[guillaumeb]

22. You made a declarative statement.

Now prove it.

[marylandblue]

24. As you would say, see Post #8

[guillaumeb]

27. Perhaps you are responding to another reply in another thread.

Or, you realize that you cannot possibly make your claim.

[marylandblue]

28. Can't make my claim? I just did.

I define a non-Christian as someone who does not follow the teachings of Jesus, and since you demonstrated in Post #8 that you do not follow his teaching, I define you as a non-Christian. It's alright if you think you are a Christian. Or you can repent, if you take that part of his teaching literally.

[guillaumeb]

30. Yes, you have convinced yourself.

Congratulations on winning this debate with yourself.

[marylandblue]

31. Since we all only speak for ourselves, who else is there to convince?

[Lordquinton]

20. To set the record straight

You have refused to answer questions for, well as long as these discussions have gone on. The "questions" you ask are sad attempts at reframing and deflections to get the topic away from whatever discussion is at hand, like why you don't answer questions.

[guillaumeb]

23. Setting the record straight,

or promoting your narrative?

I have seen how you value dialogue.

Another failed attempt on your part.

[trotsky]

14. Religion?

Maybe it's patriotism? You don't know for sure.

[AtheistCrusader]

18. False bifurcation.

If Trump suddenly made a seemingly positive statement about addressing racism I wouldn't call it good or bad. I'd call it fake, or misleading, or political cover.

racism “lives in a particular and pernicious way in our country, in large part because of the experience of the historic evil of slavery.”

I wonder why your source you chose, chopped off the end of that sentence. Interesting 'quote'.

[guillaumeb]

21. Do you disagree with the quote?

And do you understand about posting excerpts, with a link to the entire article?

[Lordquinton]

32. You are notorious for reframing things to suit your agenda

So the question is serious. And obviously he disagreed with your framing of the quote, why did you chop it off like that? You are allowed 4 paragraphs, so cutting it shorter, to the point of cutting the important end off a quote is going to raise eyebrows.

I bet this is going to get Choired.

[guillaumeb]

34. Says the poster who promotes the silliness about a Nazi meme.

[Lordquinton]

35. I don't take that stuff as "silly"

And you crossed a line doing that.

Perhaps some introspection on why you could have been perceived that way instead of, once again, insisting that everyone else is wrong.

[guillaumeb]

36. Still at the misframing I see. Negative points for consistency.

Once again, you promote a meme and an accusation that you simply cannot back up. Which is why you refuse to link to it.

Sad, really sad. Perhaps you feel you are winning in the Facebook group.

[Lordquinton]

37. It's been linked to, and explained several times

Trying to rewrite history now?

[guillaumeb]

38. Looking in a mirror?

Amazing how what you condemn............

[Lordquinton]

39. Oh hey, using my line

How original of you.

I feel like I stumbled on to a playground.

[guillaumeb]

40. As you should feel.

And we can all see what the tactics are, and who is doing it. It is apparent from the recent comments here, even from some non-theists, that the strategies of some are obvious.

[Lordquinton]

41. Transparent

Whateves. Have the last word if you want it.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

25. I posted a solid anti-racism quotation from Trump below

with the link to the article.

So far nothing from the OP. Wonder why?

[Htom Sirveaux]

11. I wonder how much of their money and attention goes to that

versus blocking abortion and contraception, or attempting to carve out religious exemptions to anti-discrimination laws.

[Act_of_Reparation]

13. The same Bishop Murray of Youngstown, Ohio who...

...blocked Ohio state representative Robert Hagen (D) from speaking at the Mercy School of Nursing's 2012 commencement ceremony because he supported women's rights and gay rights?

[trotsky]

15. !!

[True Dough]

51. The silence

is deafening!

[Act_of_Reparation]

52. It certainly is.

Some people seem to think homophobia and misogyny in the clergy are minor failings that can -- and should -- be overlooked when tackling other issues. That we can just shelve their continued efforts to deny LGBTQ folk equal rights and women access to necessary healthcare for another day while we discuss some other "greater evil".

I don't want to speak out of turn, but I think our LGBTQ and female allies deserve better than that.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

19. Donald Trump: "Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs."

GOOD NEWS! Let's celebrate Trump. He's awesome!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40927089

The U.S. Catholic Bishops can go pound sand. Fix your own shit show religion before you talk about what society should do. There is no way I want my society to look like the clusterfuck of the RCC.

[Lordquinton]

33. So they're de-cannonising Sera?

No?

[MineralMan]

42. Well, OK, but shouldn't they already know that?

Are Catholic Bishops not educated adults who can look at society? Why would they need instruction to understand that racism exists and is a bad thing?

[guillaumeb]

43. Many whites feel that racism no longer exists. eom

[MineralMan]

44. Nobody I know thinks that.

Do you know people who think that?

It's interesting that you only speak of "whites." So, I'll ask you: How do you know that many people feel that way? Have they told you so? Or are you just basing it on your own feelings?

[guillaumeb]

46. Here is one citation:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/16/politics/blacks-white-racism-united-states-polls/index.html

I found numerous citations with a simple Google search, so no, this is more than my feelings.

[MineralMan]

47. I'm talking about RCC bishops.

Educated men. That's the subject of the thread.

[guillaumeb]

48. And the subject of the thread is also education.

Presumably part of the job description for the RCC Bishops.

[Act_of_Reparation]

45. He didn't ask about "whites".

He asked about Catholic Bishops. Do many Catholic Bishops feel racism no longer exists? Why? Does Mother Church not tell them?

[guillaumeb]

49. I would suggest reading the entire article.

It is clear.

[Act_of_Reparation]

50. I would suggest you familiarize yourself with rhetorical questions.