#MeToo: Exposing The Heresy Of Twisting Scripture To Encourage Women To Endure Abuse

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

Throughout my life I heard my father give fiery sermons from the pulpit on the subject of abuse. After recounting horror stories of the women who stayed in violent relationships because of abuse of power from religious leaders, he would say to the congregation in a matter of fact statement that would leave some silenced in shock:

To read more:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/metoo-exposing-the-heresy-of-twisting-scripture-to_us_59e80a17e4b0432b8c11ec9f?section=us_religion

[Voltaire2]

1. Lot's Daughters

Lot's daughters are four women, two unnamed people in the Book of Genesis, and two others, including Paltith, in the Book of Jasher.[1] Only two daughters are mentioned in Genesis 19, while Lot and his family are in Sodom. Two angels arrive in Sodom, and Lot shows them hospitality. However, the men of the city gather around Lot's house and demand that he give them the two guests so they could rape them. In response, Lot offers the mob his two daughters instead, noting that they are virgins (verse 19:8). The mob refuses Lot's offer, but the angels strike them with blindness, and then warn Lot to leave the city before it is destroyed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lot%27s_daughters

"Never mind those angels, here rape my virgin daughters."

The "holy books" are stuffed full of misogyny.

[Act_of_Reparation]

2. Jesus on divorce:

"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another commits adultery.”

- Matthew 19: 9

“It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that anyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

- Matthew 15: 31-32

"But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Then in the house the disciples asked him again about this matter. He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

- Mark 10: 6-12

Yeah. They're "twisting" it, alright. Good one.

[trotsky]

4. And don't forget...

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord."
-- Ephesians 5:22

[Act_of_Reparation]

5. Everyone knows the Old Testament doesn't count, amirite?

Unfortunately, the New Testament is packed full of this shit, too.

To the married I give this command—not I but the Lord—that the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does separate, let her remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife.

1 Corinthians 7: 10-11

Thus a married woman is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives; but if her husband dies, she is discharged from the law concerning the husband. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man, she is not an adulteress.

- Romans 7: 2-3

[trotsky]

8. That's the neat part - Ephesians is also NT!

The OT made it clear women were merely property; the NT says "well ok maybe they aren't property but they need to obey you at all times. And be quiet in church."

[Act_of_Reparation]

9. It's a natural consequence of the NT attitude towards sex.

Sex is a sin. You shouldn't be doing it. You shouldn't be getting married or having children. You should be devoting yourself to God while there's still time left to do it.

Women went from being property to being blamed for distracting and seducing men away from God, en masse. I really can't tell which is worse.

[guillaumeb]

16. "Sex is a sin"?

An interesting take on the New Testament.

[Act_of_Reparation]

20. Interesting indeed.

If you've been asleep for the past 2,000 years.

[trotsky]

40. Actually a very standard one.

You must not be very informed about your religion's history or current practices.

[guillaumeb]

45. Yes indeed.

Sex is a sin is an interesting reading.

[trotsky]

3. "The Heresy Of Twisting Scripture"

Are you claiming to be the sole arbiter of what your holy text says?

How else can you claim someone else is "twisting" the text and committing "heresy"?

Are you defining Christianity for others?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

6. That's some crap

No twisting involved. It's pretty clear that women are submissive to their husbands.

[marylandblue]

7. And stuck with them as well

[Lordquinton]

10. It's really the opposite

You have to get creative to not interpret it as promoting abuse. God fits all the hallmarks of an abusive parent/spouse. "Love me or be punished" is a clear message no matter how you twist it.

[Voltaire2]

11. This thread is going well so far.

[guillaumeb]

12. Well for the choir,

most of whom have sung their solo pieces.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

13. Keep beating that drum.

It probably makes you feel good.

And the fact that you are using a religious-based cliche to describe atheists isn't going unnoticed.

[guillaumeb]

14. Language is filled with religious based words.

And I believe that it is a very fitting description.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

15. I know you do.

And people have told you why that is inappropriate and insulting. Yet you continue.

[guillaumeb]

17. Inappropriate and insulting? Read and be enlightened:

A group of atheists, singing in a choir:

The choir is one of those interest groups, and Yule Rock is one of their biggest yearly events. Sunday Assembly’s Head of Music Emma Broomfield said that singing is a great way to build community because it often brings strangers together to work toward a common goal.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sunday-assembly-christmas_us_5645ab6be4b0603773488e3a

I am glad I could help you with this issue, but there is no need to thank me.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

18. You can't really be this obtuse. Really.

I sing in a semi-professional choir. I know singing is cool. But using the "preaching to the choir" cliche knowingly to describe atheists when they have told you that atheism is NOT a religion is rude. That clear enough?

[guillaumeb]

19. when one atheist atated that theism is a disease, and stood by that statement,

could that also be taken as rude?

And as the article illustrates, the word choir is not reserved for theists.

[Act_of_Reparation]

21. Two wrongs make a right, do they?

Given the history of your religion, I wouldn't go tugging at that thread.

[guillaumeb]

22. So saying that theism is a disease is wrong, in your opinion?

Good to know.

[Act_of_Reparation]

24. What I think is irrelevant.

You obviously think it is wrong, and seem think being wronged justifies wronging others in return.

[trotsky]

41. "You... think being wronged justifies wronging others in return"

Yep. Clearly documented in the posts that he hasn't deleted yet. Nice Christian behavior.

[Mariana]

35. There's an interesting version of Christianity for you.

Do to others as you would have them do to you, unless you don't feel like it. Then just do whatever the fuck you want.

[Act_of_Reparation]

42. A pretty mainstream version if personal experience is to be believed.

[Htom Sirveaux]

23. But its not just in the context of marriage:

"

Matthew 5:38-41: “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles."

Those are reported words of Christ, which the article urges us to heed:

To any women (or men) struggling with religious peer-pressure, suffering in an abusive relationship or who has been hurt by the manipulation of church leaders, I want you to consider the words of Christ – whose word is really the only one that matters.

[guillaumeb]

25. Can you explain your point for me?

I believe that I am missing it.

[Htom Sirveaux]

36. The complaint of the article is that certain scriptures

are being twisted to support women staying in abusive relationships. But if there are other scriptures advising non-resistance to abuse in general, not just in marriage, then an accusation of twisting is less supportable.

[guillaumeb]

44. I understand.

I read "turn the other cheek" as a change from "an eye for an eye" as is expressed in the Old Testament.

[Aristus]

26. Mrs. Aristus was in an abusive marriage for fifteen years.

She stayed with her abusive first husband because her faith had taught her that divorce was a sin.

Interestingly enough, it was an evangelical pastor who finally told her: "Your husband is not behaving in a Godly manner. If he abuses you, he is not a true husband, and so this is not a Godly marriage. God did not call you to be unhappy."

She filed for divorce two weeks later, and she and I were married four years after.

I wish I could meet that guy so I could shake his hand and thank him.

[guillaumeb]

27. My daughter was in a similarly abusive relationship. "Was" is the operative word.

I am happy for both of you and happy that she talked to her Pastor.

[marylandblue]

28. Her pastor was correct, but he took that has no support in the Bible

There is no abusive husband exception to the rule that you shouldn't divorce.

[guillaumeb]

29. Jesus injunction to "do to others"

would, in my view, be sufficient excuse. And I would say that the Pastor agreed.

[marylandblue]

30. The golden rule doesn't cover every situation

or it can be interpreted in ways that give strange results. For a woman being abused, she may say, if were my husband I wouldn't want me to leave. So she doesn't leave, and in effect arrives at one of Jesus' other rules, "turn the other cheek."

[guillaumeb]

31. I disagree, as, I believe, did the Pastor.

I interpret "turn the other cheek" as advocating for non-violence, not tolerating violence.

[marylandblue]

32. Good thing she found that Pastor then

Also good he didn't say, "I can only speak for myself" so you'll just have to figure it out for yourself.

[guillaumeb]

33. One presumes that she asked the Pastor for an opinion.

And he responded, similar to my response to you, that he did not see it as an issue for her to leave her husband. I would have responded similarly to the woman, as I did to my own daughter when she was in a similar situation.

[marylandblue]

34. Yes that is what happened, but that wasn't my point

[Mariana]

37. It's remarriage after divorce that Jesus really condemned.

The way it reads to me is that abused spouses may leave their abusers, but they should not remarry. If they remarry they become adulterers, as do their new spouses. There really isn't any ambiguity about remarriage, Jesus was very clear.

[marylandblue]

38. I agree that it seems pretty clear

But the problem is that religion is so open to interpretation, you can get any result you like. So first the Catholic Church decided you couldn't get divorced because marriage is a sacrament. However, if you were wealthy, you get an annulment. Then the Protestants decide marriage wasn't a sacrament, so you could get divorced and remarried, even though the NT said you couldn't and Protestants were supposedly following scripture alone.

[Mariana]

39. You're right, of course.

I've said before, one can believe or disbelieve just about anything and still be one flavor of Christian or another. That's why some of us ask Christians so many questions, to try to find out what they believe. If they just say, "I'm a Christian" it doesn't really mean anything. Even if they name a denomination, it doesn't say much, since so many people just ignore any doctrines they don't like.

[marylandblue]

43. I think this is why guillaumeb drives some atheists crazy

He seems to only believe two lines in the Bible and uses these to turn Jesus into a 21st Century progressive, solely for himself of course.

So never mind what he actually said about marriage or salvation or bringing swords, it can all be over-ridden with just those two lines.