When It Comes to Charitable Giving, Jesus Is Supposed to

[MineralMan]

have said this, as written in Matthew 6:1-4:

1. Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4. That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. -KJV

Articles about how religious people are the main source of help for people in need, as opposed to the non-religious, appear to violate this particular verse, I think. Over time, I've seen many such claims in the religious press, sometimes quoted here. More proof that Chapter 6 of Matthew is often honored more in the breach than in the observance by many who claim to follow Jesus' teachings.

Odd, that...

[Fresh_Start]

1. I'm very suspicious of those claims that the religious provide more help to the poor

Look at Joel Osteen...I'm guessing more of the tithes from his followers are going to Joel Osteen and the upkeep of his obscene cathedral.

I think if you remove the portion of their charitable giving which is maintaining their social club (local meeting buildings and preachers)...you would find they aren't giving more.

[Warpy]

2. Religious people give to their churches

and count that as charity.

[MineralMan]

4. Yes. It's rather a circular thing in many cases.

I remember when the church I attended as a teenager installed a big, glorious pipe organ. In fact, I worked for the organ builder that installed it as an unpaid intern one summer, learning a great deal about pipe organs. The church was very proud of that expensive instrument, and members gave generously to the organ fund.

I'm uncertain as to how that helped any unfortunate people though. Now, I love pipe organs and even played that one a few times during services when the regular organist was absent, although not nearly as well as she did. I took some pride in the instrument, because I had helped to install it. But, it was not a charitable thing to donate to its purchase and installation. It was circular giving, which benefited the givers through an improved musical experience during services. Still, I'm sure most of them took their donation as a deduction on their income taxes as a charitable donation.

[Arkansas Granny]

5. Correct. The church itself is the charity and main beneficiary

[MineralMan]

3. Well, I can't examine Osteen's books. Heck, I can't even see them.

An omniscient deity, however, should have no problem reviewing them, I'd think. Which is why I question such people's actual belief in the first place. I doubt very much whether Osteen worries about any deity at all, or even believes that any such exists, because, if he did, he wouldn't flout that deity's rules as he does.

At least that's my reasoning.

[Nitram]

6. The same can be said for Christ's suggestion that prayer should be done in private, not

in public for the purpose of making a good impression.

[Lordquinton]

7. So you're saying...

That atheists that quietly give to religious charities stand a better chance at reward in the afterlife than religious who wears their donations on their sleeves?

I love how logic works.

[MineralMan]

8. Nope. No afterlife.

This is it.

[Lordquinton]

9. I said chance

Of course 0% technically isn't greater than 0% you still have a bigger 0% chance of later rewards.

[guillaumeb]

10. This is it? Really?

And your proof for this assertion is.........?

That it is your opinion.

[AtheistCrusader]

11. We don't need to prove the 'assertion' that there is no afterlife.

Those that claim there IS an afterlife need to prove there IS.

That's how burden of proof works.

(MM's limited context of that specific answer to that specific question is narrow in scope and does not constitute HEY YOU GUYS NO AFTERLIFE, etc.)

Time for one, just one religious person to put up or shut up and show there is an afterlife.

[trotsky]

12. Nope, they'll just hide behind "you can't prove there isn't" and pretend like it's a stalemate.

That's what passes for sophisticated theological discussion, you know.

[guillaumeb]

16. The poster made a declarative statement.

If the poster can show proof of the statement I will accept it as fact.

[Act_of_Reparation]

17. What you accept as fact is immaterial.

Truth is independent of your preferences.

[guillaumeb]

18. And you possess this truth?

Or is this simply another opinion that you feel is the truth?

[Act_of_Reparation]

19. Or did you not understand what I wrote?

I'm not claiming to possess the truth, I'm criticizing your attitude. No one cares what you accept as fact. No one is looking to have their opinions validated by you.

[guillaumeb]

20. This IS an actual opinion post.

So are you surprised that opinions are in fact posted?

But when someone states something as a fact I might ask for proof.

[trotsky]

21. I'll remind you once again, since you seem to keep forgetting...

that absolutely no one on this message board is under any obligation whatsoever to respond to your requests - particularly those who are familiar with your blatant agenda and dishonest tactics.

[guillaumeb]

25. You do keep "on message".

Hoping to convince others one assumes.

[trotsky]

26. No convincing needed.

Your behavior is clear to all.

[Act_of_Reparation]

27. Nothing much surprises me anymore.

But when someone states something as a fact I might ask for proof.

If only you held priests to the same standard.

[trotsky]

29. ...

[AtheistCrusader]

23. In the limited scope of an answer to a question.

You're trying to make it about Life, the Universe and Everything in it, as a declarative, and no one wants to play your game.

Have a nice day.

[MineralMan]

13. Look at my signature line.

Everything I write here is my opinion. I make that very clear. I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else.

I do not believe there is any sort of afterlife. I believe, based on evidence, that death is a permanent end to every individual's life. That's why living a productive, ethical life is so important. At some point most people will be faced with reviewing their time and history. I want that review to be a positive one for my own well-being.

Others believe that their is some sort of existence beyond the grave. They're welcome to that belief, but I do not share it. There is ample proof that one's life ends at death. We see that evidence all around us. There is, however, no evidence of any survival beyond that. I have evidence about the end of life. You have none about the afterlife that you believe exists.

And, as stated in my signature line, that is my opinion. You might have a different one.

[Act_of_Reparation]

14. That's just, like, your opinion, man.

[MineralMan]

15. Indeed it is, Dude...

[Lordquinton]

22. It's true

He never responds to DU mail...

[MineralMan]

24. I do, but rarely.

I prefer to communicate in public in the forums. Very rarely, I will reply to a DU Mail, but it's not a good way to communicate with me. That's why I include that disclaimer in my signature line.

[sprinkleeninow]

30. Yeah-yas I do. Not an opinion, but hold a belief.

MB leaning towards a 'knowing' of sorts.

Don't y'all go jumpin' on me now!

I yam primarily responding to The Mineral Man. 😍

It's only a bro-in-humanity/DU thang. So don't anybody get their ******** inna twist over this. Ai Chihuahua!

[wryter2000]

28. Furthermore,

Jesus also said to pray in private, not brag about how pious we are.