Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

MineralMan

(146,333 posts)
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 01:30 PM Aug 2017

On Irrelevant Religious Expression

My father, who is 92 years old now, was a B-17 pilot during WWII. About 10 years ago, he attended a Memorial Day event at the cemetery in the small California town where he lives. He's a well-known man in that town, since he served as the Chief of the town's volunteer Fire Department for almost 30 years. He is also a non-religious person who simply has never had any time for religion, although he really never speaks of it.

Anyhow, the organizers of that Memorial Day event had asked a local pastor to speak at the event, as they always did each year. That particular year, however, the pastor they chose took the occasion to deliver a speech that addressed only abortion and gays in dramatic, negative and vehement words. He went on for about 5 minutes, until my father had his fill of it. My father stood up in the audience and interrupted the pastor. He said, very pointedly, and I paraphrase:

"Excuse me, but that is NOT why we have gathered in this place today. This gathering is to commemorate the brave people who have lost their lives during wartime. Everyone here knew someone who died in battle, and we have come here to honor them, not to listen to someone complain about things that are not relevant to that. So, sir, if you do not have something so say in honor of those people, then I suggest that you sit down and stop talking. We do not want to listen to any more of what you have been saying."

Then, my father sat down again. Slowly, applause began to build in the group that had gathered. The pastor left the podium and walked away from the gathering. The next speaker on the program stepped up and began his speech commemorating those who served and the program continued without further interruption.

When the subject of a religious expression in public places is irrelevant to the situation, it serves no purpose and should not occur. If it does occur, it should be interrupted and the person making it told of its irrelevancy. Not every expression is suitable to every occasion. All too often, we allow religious expression to interfere with people's lives and do not speak out in fear of being impolite. We should stop doing that, really. We should not be afraid to stand up and insist that relevance be considered when people are gathered for a particular reason.

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
On Irrelevant Religious Expression (Original Post) MineralMan Aug 2017 OP
K&R saidsimplesimon Aug 2017 #1
Thanks to your late father for his valorous service! MineralMan Aug 2017 #2
Yes saidsimplesimon Aug 2017 #3
Good for him SCantiGOP Aug 2017 #4
IMO religious expression is always irrelevant Orrex Aug 2017 #5
Religion: Together we can find a cure. n/t Brainstormy Aug 2017 #11
Your dad sounds awesome. kag Aug 2017 #6
My father is a force of nature. MineralMan Aug 2017 #7
Yippee for him!!! BigmanPigman Aug 2017 #8
BigmanPigman, the phrase raven mad Aug 2017 #17
This pastor, as many do, was spreading hate with.. Duppers Aug 2017 #9
Local nonsense about Prayers before UTILITY Meeting packman Aug 2017 #10
Impressive, I would like to shake his hand and thank him for his service in WW II TNNurse Aug 2017 #12
I'll tell him you said that. I talk to my parents every afternoon. MineralMan Aug 2017 #13
Excellent! Shut down the hate mongerers! Initech Aug 2017 #14
The pastor's "expression" was more political than religious Martin Eden Aug 2017 #15
Please tell you father that he is a honorable, brave man. raven mad Aug 2017 #16
Thanks. I'll pass that along to him! MineralMan Aug 2017 #18
The problem is..... HAB911 Aug 2017 #19
I have always tried to follow my father's example. MineralMan Aug 2017 #20
My dad was much the same HAB911 Aug 2017 #21

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
1. K&R
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 01:38 PM
Aug 2017

My father, with a religious mother and WW1 father lied about his age to join the "action" at the start of WWII. His was the lot of the sharp shooter, tracker and behind the lines of duty. The horrors he observed in Europe changed his life and mine. He died of brain cancer some years ago.

MineralMan

(146,333 posts)
2. Thanks to your late father for his valorous service!
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 01:40 PM
Aug 2017

The WWII vets are dying off so quickly now. Soon, there will be no more of them. That is a true pity.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
3. Yes
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 01:47 PM
Aug 2017

Ken Burns, a great historian imo, told some, but not nearly enough of their stories. My father spoke only to me, as an adult, about his nightmares.

SCantiGOP

(13,874 posts)
4. Good for him
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 01:57 PM
Aug 2017

I have recently stopped 'participating' in public prayer before meals. If someone asks if they can say a prayer, which happens more often than not in SC, I make a point to say "I have no problem if you want to pray," with some emphasis on the work 'you.'
While most close their eyes, I always notice that a few at the table glance at me and see that I am sitting straight in my chair and staring straight ahead while the prayer is underway. Polite but not participating.

On three occasions I have had people challenge me later on why I oppose public prayer. They usually give up the conservation when I ask them if god would be displeased with a silent acknowledgment from anyone rather than a public display showing everyone how pious that individual is, and how we as a society should be engaging in mass demonstrations of a shared religious view.

What your father did takes some guts, but I think it is necessary to keep from being counted in the group who feel that god will be mad if you don't thank him - rather than the farmers, truckers, cooks, servers, etc - for the food that has miraculously appeared before you.

Orrex

(63,225 posts)
5. IMO religious expression is always irrelevant
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 03:33 PM
Aug 2017

I applaud your father for calling out bullshit as bullshit.

MineralMan

(146,333 posts)
7. My father is a force of nature.
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 03:39 PM
Aug 2017

Normally, he's very quiet, but when he has something to say, he says it.

BigmanPigman

(51,630 posts)
8. Yippee for him!!!
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 03:49 PM
Aug 2017

I have wanted to do that my entire life. As a teacher I would have to lead the "Pledge of Allegiance" and the word GOD always got stuck in my throat. Out of school I never participated but I wish I had the guts to do what your dad did.

raven mad

(4,940 posts)
17. BigmanPigman, the phrase
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 11:38 PM
Aug 2017

"under God" didn't come in until the year I was born, 1954. And it was Eisenhower that urged it. Republican, of course. I still sit out that phrase - don't speak it when others do.

TNNurse

(6,929 posts)
12. Impressive, I would like to shake his hand and thank him for his service in WW II
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 04:21 PM
Aug 2017

and for his service in that gathering.

MineralMan

(146,333 posts)
13. I'll tell him you said that. I talk to my parents every afternoon.
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 04:22 PM
Aug 2017

I don't live near them, so I call every day at the same time. It's part of their day now.

Martin Eden

(12,875 posts)
15. The pastor's "expression" was more political than religious
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 04:32 PM
Aug 2017

And no doubt some of the honored dead were gay, but in those days coming out of the closet just wasn't done in mainstream American society.

raven mad

(4,940 posts)
16. Please tell you father that he is a honorable, brave man.
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 11:35 PM
Aug 2017

If I had been in his time, I'd have danced with him at the USO. (To MineralMan's Dad: Sir, YOU are a hero. )

HAB911

(8,916 posts)
19. The problem is.....
Sun Aug 27, 2017, 09:40 AM
Aug 2017

almost anything is acceptable in the name of religion, most will not question

to my chagrin

MineralMan

(146,333 posts)
20. I have always tried to follow my father's example.
Sun Aug 27, 2017, 09:46 AM
Aug 2017

He has never been afraid to take a position that might be unpopular, as long as he thinks he is right. Further, he's almost always right in his thinking. Almost...Hi, Dad!

HAB911

(8,916 posts)
21. My dad was much the same
Sun Aug 27, 2017, 10:01 AM
Aug 2017

I don't remember him being political nor religious. Sometime in my younger years I did ask him if he believed in god, he mulled that over for a few seconds and just shook his head.

BTW, he was Seabee during the war, stationed in New Guinea. A telephone man whose foot steps, I for some reason, followed in, LOL.

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»On Irrelevant Religious E...