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MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 03:48 PM Aug 2017

What accounts for the survival and global spread of Christianity?

That's a good question to ask, I think, and I may have a fairly simple answer. Let's look at what I think may have led to all of that and have a discussion about it:

Religion seems to be a natural development of pretty much every human culture and society. Religions seem to have developed in keeping with the knowledge and social structures of each culture and society. Some cultures created naturalistic deities to reflect the puzzling thing that is the world we live in. Animals, heavenly bodies, and even mountains, oceans and rivers have attained deity in one culture another another.

Multiple deities with their own responsibilities are pretty common, too. Some religions that survive today have hundreds or even thousands of deities. That's complicated, really, and hard to keep straight, really. Heck in Greek and Roman religions, the deities even fought with each other and sometimes came down and mated with humans to create demi-gods. They all seem to have human characteristics, naturally enough, I guess.

And names. Lots of names. Names that have become days of the week and months in our Western languages. More confusion. How is it possible to keep track of all of that? But, it was important that deities be like humans in some ways. They needed to be like humans, since humans appear to have created them. We need to be able to identify with our deities, see.

All was confusion, until some clever fellow in some culture came up with the idea that One deity was enough, as long as that One was omni-everything. That simplified the situation considerably, and became pretty popular, at least in some places and in some cultures. Just One name to remember who did it all and that's that.

Having a single deity was very convenient and provided an easy explanation for all sorts of stuff people didn't understand. How was the universe created? Well, Poof! The One wished it into existence and there it was. One deity is very useful in explaining stuff to the curious monkeys humans are without causing too much confusion.

And rules. People need rules. So if the One dictates the rules, then fear of what the One might do was a good way to keep things more or less peaceful. And Worship. Deities require worship to keep people conscious of the rules and to have a way to plead for better conditions when things get tough. So, clever people figured that all out and wrote down rules that were pretty much the same everywhere humans lived in groups, large and small.

People die, too, so they want to know what happens when they die. We'll, it's easy to use that to help with that rules stuff. If you follow all the rules, see, and worship like you're supposed to, then good things happen to you after you die. If you don't, though, it's bad. VERY BAD! So, be good. But humans have a really hard time being good, it seems. They get angry, avaricious, lazy, etc. So, it's really impossible to be good enough, and that's bad.

Christianity handles all of that nonsense right away. All you have to do to get those posthumous rewards is to believe. If you believe, the bad stuff gets erased-like and won't keep you from getting good stuff when you die. There was this sacrifice by the son sent down, who is also the father, and some other stuff, or something. It's pretty mysterious, but that doesn't matter. You just have to believe, worship from time to time, and do your best to behave and the rewards are yours.

It's a perfect shortcut. You don't have a whole pantheon of deities to appease and worship. Just One, who is really three at the same time, but never mind. And you don't have to be perfect, because that's impossible. All you have to do is believe that you'll be forgiven when you screw up and everything's good. What a great concept! So much simpler. So much easier to deal with. There's still some worshiping to do, of course, some rules you're supposed to follow, and stuff like that, but if you screw up, remember that you believe in the One, so it's all good. You're home free.

But you do have to believe, see. If you don't, then what happens after you die is bad. REAL BAD! It's easier if you believe, so what makes the most sense? Why not believe? Why take chances with your afterlife? And so, as the story spread, people thought to themselves: Say! This is way easier than how it is in my religion. I'm going to switch to worshiping the One. It's easy to believe in that. The rules are about the same, anyhow, and I've never been able to follow all those rules, so if believing makes it OK if I screw up, I'm in!

And so, Christianity spread like wildfire through Western Civilization and then out into other parts of the planet. What's not to like, after all, about a simple religion that gives you a shortcut solution to getting out of that BAD stuff that might happen when you die?

Does that make sense?

Sorry about all the words and stuff. It's complicated, see...

49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What accounts for the survival and global spread of Christianity? (Original Post) MineralMan Aug 2017 OP
Missionary zeal and trade routes...wars... Zoonart Aug 2017 #1
There you go! MineralMan Aug 2017 #2
Spread Hegemonic/Cultural Imperialist propaganda? Bretton Garcia Sep 2017 #49
Fear. elleng Aug 2017 #3
Yabbut all religions use fear as a tool. MineralMan Aug 2017 #5
Yes they do. elleng Aug 2017 #7
When you have the only true and correct way to salvation it is an easy sell Angry Dragon Aug 2017 #4
Especially if it's really easy to be a winner. MineralMan Aug 2017 #6
... shanny Aug 2017 #29
It does make sense, but don't forget to factor in politcal power. Binkie The Clown Aug 2017 #8
The Roman Empire adopted it because it was easier, too. MineralMan Aug 2017 #10
By the time Rome adopted Christianity it wasn't Voltaire2 Aug 2017 #17
And yet Christianity became the official religion of most of Europe, with Rome at the center Binkie The Clown Aug 2017 #19
Yes, point bring it had nothing much to do Voltaire2 Aug 2017 #20
I don't think the spread of Christianity had anything to do with conquest. nt Binkie The Clown Aug 2017 #21
Actually, it did. Act_of_Reparation Aug 2017 #22
Good point. Voltaire2 Aug 2017 #23
Reading Sapiens - which I highly recommend elfin Aug 2017 #9
I'll check it out. Thanks. MineralMan Aug 2017 #11
Perhaps Constantine had a "Saul on the road to Tarsus" moment of inspiration. eom guillaumeb Aug 2017 #25
Yup, if he had made a different decision the western world would now be Mithraism worshippers dhol82 Aug 2017 #32
An opinion. One of many. guillaumeb Aug 2017 #12
I suggest the book Guns, Germs, and Steel Heddi Aug 2017 #13
Jared Diamond raves about Sapiens elfin Aug 2017 #27
Gullible idiots and the threat of eternal damnation? WoonTars Aug 2017 #14
Simplistic framing. guillaumeb Aug 2017 #24
That works too... WoonTars Aug 2017 #30
The most useful tool for politics along with a strong military KY_EnviroGuy Aug 2017 #15
You have a fairly simple answer? Curmudgeoness Aug 2017 #16
Well, thanks for your advice. MineralMan Aug 2017 #37
If the religion helps the culture safeinOhio Aug 2017 #18
Your second sentence makes sense to why the people who like trump are Doreen Aug 2017 #28
I try to look at everything as gray. safeinOhio Aug 2017 #34
It suggests that the Creator intended it. guillaumeb Aug 2017 #26
Intelligent design? shanny Aug 2017 #31
An intelligent Creator? guillaumeb Aug 2017 #35
That may be a bridge too far shanny Aug 2017 #39
Same as Islam Lordquinton Aug 2017 #33
While that's all well and good, Heddi Aug 2017 #36
I see. I'm surprised you took the time to chide me for MineralMan Aug 2017 #38
Oh I'm sorry. Heddi Aug 2017 #40
I see. Well, since I've never claimed any of that, MineralMan Aug 2017 #41
translation Heddi Aug 2017 #42
I beg your pardon? MineralMan Aug 2017 #43
An interesting exchange. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #46
!!! Lordquinton Aug 2017 #44
1982! progressoid Sep 2017 #48
The historical question, of reasons for the success of Christianity in particular times and places, struggle4progress Sep 2017 #45
Momentum? Inertia? Mass Stupidity? Um...Marketing? Iggo Sep 2017 #47

Zoonart

(11,868 posts)
1. Missionary zeal and trade routes...wars...
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 03:51 PM
Aug 2017

those monks were like fleas on a caravan. Also, as you pointed out buy now, pay later is always an attractive sell.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
2. There you go!
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 03:52 PM
Aug 2017

Oh, and by the way, could you put some coins in this bowl to help us spread the word?

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
8. It does make sense, but don't forget to factor in politcal power.
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 04:02 PM
Aug 2017

The Roman Empire has a lot to do with the spread of Christianity.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
10. The Roman Empire adopted it because it was easier, too.
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 04:31 PM
Aug 2017

A simple, shortcut religion is way simpler and less distracting. Easier to sell to places the Roman Army invaded, too.

Voltaire2

(13,042 posts)
17. By the time Rome adopted Christianity it wasn't
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 05:59 PM
Aug 2017

invading anyone, it was desperately defending the empire from invaders, an excruciating decline of more than 1000 years.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
19. And yet Christianity became the official religion of most of Europe, with Rome at the center
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 08:10 PM
Aug 2017

of their religious life.

Voltaire2

(13,042 posts)
20. Yes, point bring it had nothing much to do
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 08:22 PM
Aug 2017

with conquest until the 1500s. On the other hand Islam spread further and faster a few hundred years after the Roman Empire became Christian, and indeed did so in the wake of conquering armies.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
22. Actually, it did.
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 08:38 PM
Aug 2017

Yes, by the time the Romans converted they were largely on the defensive, but the Romans are not the party most directly responsible for spreading Christianity across continental Europe. That dubious honor belongs to the Franks.

In the 6th century, Merovingian founder Clovis I prayed to Jesus before battling the Alemanni -- a move suspiciously similar to Constantine's own "conversion". Thus began the Christianization of the Germanic peoples.

While Charlemagne was sticking it to pagan Saxony in the late 8th century, he actually passed a law reading:

"If any one of the race of the Saxons hereafter concealed among them shall have wished to hide himself unbaptized, and shall have scorned to come to baptism and shall have wished to remain a pagan, let him be punished by death."

Voltaire2

(13,042 posts)
23. Good point.
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 08:54 PM
Aug 2017

I should have made it clear I was referring to Roman conquests, which almost all predate the adoption of Christianity.

However much of the western empire was Christian before the Franks. Assorted "barbarians" settled in the periphery of the empire and they adopted Christianity pretty much on their own as they "romanized".

Christianity's expansion by conquest really got going with Spain in the 1500s, but indeed there was some before that.

elfin

(6,262 posts)
9. Reading Sapiens - which I highly recommend
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 04:09 PM
Aug 2017

His section on the development of different religions from animism to polytheism to monotheism is illuminating. Wish I had the smarts to summarize his concepts, but the religion had a monumental surge when Constantine chose it over any number of cults in his multi-ethnic Roman empire with about the same number of followers as the Christians.

According to the author, historians know when that happened, but not exactly why he made that decision.

Read this book for many reasons other than the religion part. It is fascinating and also recommended by still-my-president, Barack Obama.

dhol82

(9,353 posts)
32. Yup, if he had made a different decision the western world would now be Mithraism worshippers
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 10:16 PM
Aug 2017

Would that have been better?
Meh.

Heddi

(18,312 posts)
13. I suggest the book Guns, Germs, and Steel
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 04:55 PM
Aug 2017

It's a very good book and answers all of your questions in a very academic and researched way.

https://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-Steel-Fates-Societies/dp/0393317552

There is also a PBS documentary that deals with the subject in a much more abbreviated way

https://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel


Similarly, one could, say, take any number of classes on Western Civilization. They tend to deal with these issues in great depth

elfin

(6,262 posts)
27. Jared Diamond raves about Sapiens
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 09:36 PM
Aug 2017

According to the dust jacket.

It is along the lines of Guns, Germs, and Steel, but even more provocative IMO.

Both are researched thoroughly and Sapiens ventures into areas not covered by Diamond. I think both are the most accessible introductions to human history and its broad issues for lay readers. (Author Harari has more humor than Diamond for me.)

Then you can choose one area and delve further with the framework provided.

I wish that both be introduced in high school world history classes. Just to start them thinking.

If not high school, then on the required reading list for incoming freshmen to most colleges and universities.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,491 posts)
15. The most useful tool for politics along with a strong military
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 05:26 PM
Aug 2017

Thanks for your very cool essay, MineralMan. Perfect summary of what I had to learn the hard way in my younger years, getting that painful divorce from religion after being neck-deep in it for years. As some others have mentioned, Constantinople co-opting was the first giant step for Christianity's growth as it began it's spread through Europe. It's always been a useful tool to keep the sheeple at bay.

Arguably, it may have actually helped America a bit to struggle through our formative years, as there was much pain from which to escape.
After watching it now for around 60 years, Christianity in my view is now slowly dying. Some of the first death kneels I noticed was co-opting with the Republicans in the 70s and the appearance of Prosperity Gospel teachings, both of which would have been considered heresy just 50 years ago. It's now just an escape mechanism, universal alibi, and political tool to escape the truths about greed, desire to have power over others and free practice of all the "seven deadly sins", LOL.

In summary, looking around the globe, what's not to like, so say the dictators, plutocrats, oligarchs, tyrants, despots, monarchs and autocrats!

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
16. You have a fairly simple answer?
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 05:40 PM
Aug 2017

Then you put out a dissertation where you attempt to answer the question you posed. TLDR. It would be better if you kept the post shorter. All you really needed to do is say the one deity was easier to deal with, then give others a chance to have discussion on it.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
37. Well, thanks for your advice.
Thu Aug 24, 2017, 09:15 AM
Aug 2017

I used just the number of words I needed. Not everyone reads everything.

safeinOhio

(32,685 posts)
18. If the religion helps the culture
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 07:23 PM
Aug 2017

thrive, it grows and spreads. In other words, is it adaptive to the environment?

Most religions are on the decline as the populations begin to find it no longer answers the question that science can.

Just my thoughts

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
28. Your second sentence makes sense to why the people who like trump are
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 09:50 PM
Aug 2017

against science. Trump knows that science make unbelievers therefore fights it. Personally I think religion was purposely created to control the masses.

safeinOhio

(32,685 posts)
34. I try to look at everything as gray.
Wed Aug 23, 2017, 11:00 PM
Aug 2017

Religion can be both. Like most things in this world, not many things are black and white. One big curve to plot the positive and the negative aspects.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
39. That may be a bridge too far
Thu Aug 24, 2017, 11:01 AM
Aug 2017

or else why--as Neil deGrasse Tyson has pointed out--did the creator create us with a rec center located in the sewer system?

Heddi

(18,312 posts)
36. While that's all well and good,
Thu Aug 24, 2017, 08:41 AM
Aug 2017

To say there is a body of academia devoted to the subject is, well, an insult to the body of academia devoted to the subject and the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of hours of research that has been conducted and written by countless men and women over several centuries on the subject.

I don't really see much use for un-educated navel-gazing on the subject and, let's be clear, every person posting on the subject on DU is doing just that. It's one thing to pontificate on our views about political climate, or our own personal views about religion, but to think that we know more about the spread of what amounts to the entirety of western civilization, or that you know better than countless academics with more degrees than I have hairs on my head is just laughable.

Let's opine about things that one can form an opinion on. I think the spread of Christianity (and any major world religion, for that matter), as well as the movement, creation, and destruction of world civilizations are things that are rather well documented by folks who are much more learned and who have done much more first hand research, writing, lecturing, and education on the subject than anyone on this board. I'm not going to be so bold to say that it's "settled science," but I hardly think that any of us have anything worthwhile to offer on the subject that goes beyond a Western Civ/Ancient Lit 101 combination class that was taken in 1962 or 1982 or 2002.

Heddi

(18,312 posts)
40. Oh I'm sorry.
Thu Aug 24, 2017, 11:52 AM
Aug 2017

I had no idea that your exalted resume included published expertise and multiple higher degrees in a variety of specialized subjects regarding the movement of peoples, cultures, religions, languages, governments, and all of the minutiae / global domino effects that cause one to succeed and the other to fail

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
41. I see. Well, since I've never claimed any of that,
Thu Aug 24, 2017, 11:54 AM
Aug 2017

I really can't respond to your sarcastic post.

I'm honored, though, that you have bothered to read my scribblings and have taken the time to respond to them.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
43. I beg your pardon?
Thu Aug 24, 2017, 01:19 PM
Aug 2017

I was simply person-splaining something I thought was interesting. It wasn't directed at anyone in particular, nor at any group in particular. I'm not sure where that fits into all this, really.

I don't see how sexism comes into this at all. Maybe I'm missing something here...

struggle4progress

(118,286 posts)
45. The historical question, of reasons for the success of Christianity in particular times and places,
Mon Sep 4, 2017, 07:33 PM
Sep 2017

should be approached by historical methods -- and this depends on distinguishing different conditions

Christianity in the Roman Empire, after the conversion of Constantine around 312 CE, is not necessarily the same phenomenon as first century Christianity, for example

Very early Christianity was a clandestine cult among some of the Jewish population in Roman-occupied Palestine, which subversively appropriated the title "Son of God" which Emperor Augustus had used and fastened this title scandalously upon a peasant who had recently been crucified by the Roman authorities. The Christian response, to this very typical Roman move to rule by terror, was to proclaim that although Jesus of Nazareth had in fact died at Roman hands, he had then been raised from the dead --- a rather in-your-face response that, if believed, somewhat undermined the Roman rule-by-terror

The destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, which followed soon afterwards, probably helped disperse this cult across the empire

Constantine's adoption of Christianity as official religion would have changed the dynamic considerably: he established an official theology, and the existence of state doctrine allowed people to use that doctrine in power struggles

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