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Cartoonist

(7,319 posts)
Fri Jan 13, 2017, 09:10 PM Jan 2017

Pillars of religious bullshit

These are the main apologies and arguments for religious dogma.

1. Free Will
Of course, there is no such thing. Everything has a price. Suppose I choose not to breathe, how long will I last? Suppose I choose to break one of the Commandments, what is my destination after death? The word religionists should properly use is duress.
noun
compulsion by threat or force


2. Redemption
So you chose to break one or more of the Commandments, don't despair, religion has given you a Get out of Hell, Free card. Adolph Hitler himself could be sitting at the feet of Jesus right this minute if he had cracked open a Bible, repented, and accepted Christ as his savior on his last day in the bunker. They even have a sacrament for it.
The last rites are meant to prepare the dying person's soul for death, by providing absolution for sins by penance, sacramental grace and prayers for the relief of suffering through anointing, and the final administration of the Eucharist, known as "Viaticum".

3. Proof
Or should I say, lack of proof? When asked to prove the existence of God, religionists will answer, "Prove God doesn't exist." Some will even go so far as to claim God is an ineffable being that cannot be defined. That's called stacking the deck. When these same people are asked to disprove the existence of unicorns, they go silent, but still cling to their Prove God doesn't exist argument.

4. Community
One is almost led to believe that religion is the only form of social interaction and support. Look at the attendees of an Oakland Raiders game. That's quite a collection of partiers who meet every Sunday and break bread with one another. Or at least share a brewski. Looking at some of them, you wouldn't take them for church goers. There are book clubs, gardening clubs, and Country Clubs, among others, in which members share their love of something and give each other aid, friendship and comfort. When given a choice between a round of golf or going to church, the decision is easy.

5. Brainwashing
Religious brainwashing is hard to overcome. When your religion is chosen for you before you are even born, where is your free will now, Moses? When you only hear one side of the story, how can you be objective? When you are told that this is the TRUTH and it gets hammered into your head during your most formative years, the brainwashing is complete. Changing or rejecting religion is as hard as learning to walk in a new way.


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Pillars of religious bullshit (Original Post) Cartoonist Jan 2017 OP
K & R Great post!!! 50 Shades Of Blue Jan 2017 #1
Nuance is obviously not your strong point. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #2
Brevity is obviously your strong point Cartoonist Jan 2017 #3
Thanks. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #5
Reality requires proof Cartoonist Jan 2017 #7
Editorializing on your part. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #8
No shit. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2017 #9
Practically. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #10
"Free" will is like "free" gifts. It will cost you. immoderate Jan 2017 #4
Agreed, But what you state about coercion has nothing to do with the concept of free will guillaumeb Jan 2017 #6
Did (allegedly) Judas have free will? AtheistCrusader Jan 2017 #12
Did Judas have the freedom to act? guillaumeb Jan 2017 #13
"Free will" trotsky Jan 2017 #11
And is this what passes for sophisticated atheistic analysis? guillaumeb Jan 2017 #14
You left out the rug Jan 2017 #15
I am not sophisticated enough to add such a thing. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #16
No wonder you're prone to Bronze Age superstitions. rug Jan 2017 #19
I was so proud of myself when I discovered fire. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #20
Pride goeth before a burn. rug Jan 2017 #23
I spell it Bern. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #24
Oh, I must have struck a nerve. trotsky Jan 2017 #17
My guess is you have a high, though unwarranted, opinion of yourself. rug Jan 2017 #18
This high? guillaumeb Jan 2017 #22
We should all post buried up to our necks. rug Jan 2017 #25
When an immovable opinion meets an all-powerful Creator............. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #26
Apt. rug Jan 2017 #27
I also wonder about many things. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #21
Good for you! trotsky Jan 2017 #28
I hope you did not bet money on your feeling. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #29
Well you never know. trotsky Jan 2017 #30
Just like me? guillaumeb Jan 2017 #31
Yup, very confident. trotsky Jan 2017 #32
Allow me to refine my question: guillaumeb Jan 2017 #33
You think atheism is a belief system, do you not? trotsky Jan 2017 #34
Evading the question? guillaumeb Jan 2017 #35
If you asked a sensible question I'd be happy to. trotsky Jan 2017 #38
Desperately avoiding the question? guillaumeb Jan 2017 #39
*sigh* trotsky Jan 2017 #40
You cannot answer? guillaumeb Jan 2017 #41
Because you might as well be asking any of the following questions: trotsky Jan 2017 #43
You have identified as an atheist. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #45
I also identify as a golfer (albeit a poor one) and a Beatles fan. trotsky Jan 2017 #46
So how do you treat believers? guillaumeb Jan 2017 #47
The way I personally treat believers depends on how they live their belief. trotsky Jan 2017 #48
"Lie about" and "insult" presumes intent to be negative. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #49
Oh I didn't realize that was part of your religious beliefs too. trotsky Jan 2017 #51
What continues is your avoidance of the substance of my response. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #52
I don't freely insult theists here. trotsky Jan 2017 #53
I'll answer this one with a question... Fix The Stupid Jan 2017 #36
Which is no answer at all. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #37
What's the question again? n/t Fix The Stupid Jan 2017 #42
Question? I did not hear the question. eom guillaumeb Jan 2017 #44
It's really impossible to make much sense of anything without free will struggle4progress Jan 2017 #50

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
2. Nuance is obviously not your strong point.
Fri Jan 13, 2017, 09:29 PM
Jan 2017

Briefly, free will means the ability to act freely. It does not mean one can ignore physical laws. It means the Creator allows creation to evolve freely.

Redemption is related to forgiveness. If you are personally unable to ever forgive people that is your affair.

Proof? Faith requires no proof, only faith.

Community can take many forms. And given that humans are social creatures, community is necessary in whatever form is chosen.

Brainwashing is a term that obviously fits your particular needs, or your perceived need for this post, but saying that believers may be brainwashed shows only your own conception of religion.

Cartoonist

(7,319 posts)
3. Brevity is obviously your strong point
Fri Jan 13, 2017, 09:52 PM
Jan 2017

You used less words than I did in outlining the bullshit that is religion.

Faith requires no proof. LOL

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
5. Thanks.
Sat Jan 14, 2017, 12:18 PM
Jan 2017

(Trying to be brief)

Faith requires only faith. Science requires proof.

(Again, trying to be brief)

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
9. No shit.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 09:51 AM
Jan 2017

This is a forum. Where those inclined exchange opinions. Practically everything here is editorialized in one way or another.

In brief.

 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
4. "Free" will is like "free" gifts. It will cost you.
Fri Jan 13, 2017, 10:57 PM
Jan 2017

I mean "free" will -- should be without influence or guidance, not to mention coercion.

--imm

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
6. Agreed, But what you state about coercion has nothing to do with the concept of free will
Sat Jan 14, 2017, 12:20 PM
Jan 2017

and everything to do with the possible structure of a particular belief system.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
11. "Free will"
Tue Jan 17, 2017, 10:28 AM
Jan 2017

The believers who invoke it as a one-size-fits-all "explanation" of why their god's creation has so many glaring flaws, when pressed to explain it, have no freaking clue and end up embarrassing themselves in the process. It's not an answer, it's not a theory, it has no explanatory power whatsoever. It's just a holdover from the time when theistic leaders declared answers, and then told everyone to shut up and quit asking questions.

And yet that's still what passes for Sophisticated Theology™.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
25. We should all post buried up to our necks.
Tue Jan 17, 2017, 08:07 PM
Jan 2017


Then there'll be an excuse for immovable opinions.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
26. When an immovable opinion meets an all-powerful Creator.............
Tue Jan 17, 2017, 08:10 PM
Jan 2017

a Damascus moment occurs. It happened with Saul.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
28. Good for you!
Wed Jan 18, 2017, 09:55 AM
Jan 2017

I bet you're sure that Christians don't actually need to follow those pesky commandments like bearing false witness, right? Well at least not when dealing with horrible evil atheists who deserve it!

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
31. Just like me?
Wed Jan 18, 2017, 04:30 PM
Jan 2017

You obviously feel confident that you know enough about me to judge.

And how would you describe your particular type of atheist?

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
32. Yup, very confident.
Wed Jan 18, 2017, 04:48 PM
Jan 2017

And I'm the type of atheist that doesn't believe in gods. So pretty much like every other atheist.

Since atheism isn't a religion or belief system, there's really nothing else to it.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
35. Evading the question?
Thu Jan 19, 2017, 12:04 PM
Jan 2017

I asked you how you personally behave, and you immediately pivot to how I view atheism as a philosophy.

So how does your personal philosophy of atheism influence your behavior toward theists?
(Note that I avoided using the "belief" word.)

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
38. If you asked a sensible question I'd be happy to.
Thu Jan 19, 2017, 12:42 PM
Jan 2017

I have no personal philosophy of atheism. There's no such thing. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods. I understand you have difficulty accepting this.

But I also understand why you are trying so desperately to avoid the topic of Christians not behaving according to their religious beliefs, which is what I brought up.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
39. Desperately avoiding the question?
Thu Jan 19, 2017, 12:43 PM
Jan 2017

Yes, I did notice that. It is a simple question that you apparently will not answer. Which might lead one to speculate.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
40. *sigh*
Thu Jan 19, 2017, 12:59 PM
Jan 2017

Yeah, sure, I'm avoiding the question that I've told you I can't answer.

Go ahead and speculate all you want. I'm not threatened by you, nor by your all-too-typical "Christian" behavior.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
41. You cannot answer?
Thu Jan 19, 2017, 01:05 PM
Jan 2017

Here was the question:

As an atheist, how do you treat believers?

What is unanswerable?

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
43. Because you might as well be asking any of the following questions:
Thu Jan 19, 2017, 02:37 PM
Jan 2017

As a guitarist, how do you treat believers?

As a bowler, how do you treat believers?

As a librarian, how do you treat believers?

Nothing about playing the guitar, bowling, or being a librarian has anything to say about how one should treat believers. Nor does atheism. Your religion, on the other hand, has a lot to say about how you're supposed to act. What do you think your religion tells you to do when it comes to being honest and kind? Do you think it says you should lie about people and insult them?

I understand if you'd rather once again try and make this about your strange question that I can't answer because it doesn't make sense. I've explained the best I can why I don't think it makes sense. But what's more telling is your steadfast refusal to even address the topic I've brought up.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
45. You have identified as an atheist.
Thu Jan 19, 2017, 02:52 PM
Jan 2017

So I asked a question based on that identification.

And you refuse to answer anything about how you treat people.

But since you asked, as a guitarist, I try to not pick on people. But I do occasionally tune people out.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
46. I also identify as a golfer (albeit a poor one) and a Beatles fan.
Thu Jan 19, 2017, 04:58 PM
Jan 2017

Neither of those characteristics has anything to do with how I treat believers either.

Your religion, on the other hand, has a lot to say about how you're supposed to act. What do you think your religion tells you to do when it comes to being honest and kind? Do you think it says you should lie about people and insult them?

I understand if you'd rather once again try and make this about your strange question that I can't answer because it doesn't make sense. I've explained the best I can why I don't think it makes sense. But what's more telling is your steadfast refusal to even address the topic I've brought up.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
47. So how do you treat believers?
Thu Jan 19, 2017, 05:36 PM
Jan 2017

And people in general?

And we have a common interest in the Beatles.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
48. The way I personally treat believers depends on how they live their belief.
Fri Jan 20, 2017, 09:52 AM
Jan 2017

If they are hypocrites or defend the horrible things their church (or religion in general) does, I treat them pretty poorly.

Now it's my turn to finally get answers.

Your religion has a lot to say about how you're supposed to act. What do you think your religion tells you to do when it comes to being honest and kind? Do you think it says you should lie about people and insult them?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
49. "Lie about" and "insult" presumes intent to be negative.
Sat Jan 21, 2017, 01:21 PM
Jan 2017

If I respond to what I see as insulting and misleading posts, is that evidence of bad intent?

If I am repeatedly accused of trying to define what it is to be a Christian when my posts make no such claim, what am I to think about the accuser?

Do I assume that the accuser is deliberately trying to misrepresent my positions, or do I assume that the accuser does not properly comprehend my posts?

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
51. Oh I didn't realize that was part of your religious beliefs too.
Mon Jan 23, 2017, 10:44 AM
Jan 2017

That evidently you only have to be remorseful for hurt you *intentionally* caused.

Even when it's been pointed out to you that your words have insulted and misled. You didn't mean to, so it's all good. Or the person is just stupid. Doubling down - that's a bold move, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off.

Amazing how just a simple apology and retraction would do wonders - but you refuse. So it continues.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
52. What continues is your avoidance of the substance of my response.
Mon Jan 23, 2017, 01:00 PM
Jan 2017

At this point I cannot claim to be surprised. You freely insult theists here, ascribing motives and meaning while refusing to admit that you also make claims about theists that are unsupported by any posts.

Fix The Stupid

(948 posts)
36. I'll answer this one with a question...
Thu Jan 19, 2017, 12:21 PM
Jan 2017

How do you 'treat' kids who believe in Santa Clause?

How do you 'treat' people who believe in Zeus?

Whatever you answer to those questions, is how I would answer your question.



guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
37. Which is no answer at all.
Thu Jan 19, 2017, 12:34 PM
Jan 2017

I have no idea of your particular beliefs, and the question was not intended as a general question, but your non-answer also avoids the question.

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