Religion
Related: About this forumPillars of religious bullshit
These are the main apologies and arguments for religious dogma.
1. Free Will
Of course, there is no such thing. Everything has a price. Suppose I choose not to breathe, how long will I last? Suppose I choose to break one of the Commandments, what is my destination after death? The word religionists should properly use is duress.
noun
compulsion by threat or force
2. Redemption
So you chose to break one or more of the Commandments, don't despair, religion has given you a Get out of Hell, Free card. Adolph Hitler himself could be sitting at the feet of Jesus right this minute if he had cracked open a Bible, repented, and accepted Christ as his savior on his last day in the bunker. They even have a sacrament for it.
The last rites are meant to prepare the dying person's soul for death, by providing absolution for sins by penance, sacramental grace and prayers for the relief of suffering through anointing, and the final administration of the Eucharist, known as "Viaticum".
3. Proof
Or should I say, lack of proof? When asked to prove the existence of God, religionists will answer, "Prove God doesn't exist." Some will even go so far as to claim God is an ineffable being that cannot be defined. That's called stacking the deck. When these same people are asked to disprove the existence of unicorns, they go silent, but still cling to their Prove God doesn't exist argument.
4. Community
One is almost led to believe that religion is the only form of social interaction and support. Look at the attendees of an Oakland Raiders game. That's quite a collection of partiers who meet every Sunday and break bread with one another. Or at least share a brewski. Looking at some of them, you wouldn't take them for church goers. There are book clubs, gardening clubs, and Country Clubs, among others, in which members share their love of something and give each other aid, friendship and comfort. When given a choice between a round of golf or going to church, the decision is easy.
5. Brainwashing
Religious brainwashing is hard to overcome. When your religion is chosen for you before you are even born, where is your free will now, Moses? When you only hear one side of the story, how can you be objective? When you are told that this is the TRUTH and it gets hammered into your head during your most formative years, the brainwashing is complete. Changing or rejecting religion is as hard as learning to walk in a new way.
50 Shades Of Blue
(10,023 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Briefly, free will means the ability to act freely. It does not mean one can ignore physical laws. It means the Creator allows creation to evolve freely.
Redemption is related to forgiveness. If you are personally unable to ever forgive people that is your affair.
Proof? Faith requires no proof, only faith.
Community can take many forms. And given that humans are social creatures, community is necessary in whatever form is chosen.
Brainwashing is a term that obviously fits your particular needs, or your perceived need for this post, but saying that believers may be brainwashed shows only your own conception of religion.
Cartoonist
(7,319 posts)You used less words than I did in outlining the bullshit that is religion.
Faith requires no proof. LOL
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)(Trying to be brief)
Faith requires only faith. Science requires proof.
(Again, trying to be brief)
Cartoonist
(7,319 posts)Mythology requires gullibility.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)In brief.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)This is a forum. Where those inclined exchange opinions. Practically everything here is editorialized in one way or another.
In brief.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I speak ex cathedra.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)I mean "free" will -- should be without influence or guidance, not to mention coercion.
--imm
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)and everything to do with the possible structure of a particular belief system.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Do you?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)The believers who invoke it as a one-size-fits-all "explanation" of why their god's creation has so many glaring flaws, when pressed to explain it, have no freaking clue and end up embarrassing themselves in the process. It's not an answer, it's not a theory, it has no explanatory power whatsoever. It's just a holdover from the time when theistic leaders declared answers, and then told everyone to shut up and quit asking questions.
And yet that's still what passes for Sophisticated Theology.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)If so, I will stay with theology.
rug
(82,333 posts)Sophisticated Atheistic Analysis.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Not with my 8th grade education and all.
rug
(82,333 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Until I burned myself on the stove.
rug
(82,333 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)I wonder why?
rug
(82,333 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Then there'll be an excuse for immovable opinions.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)a Damascus moment occurs. It happened with Saul.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But some things I am quite sure of.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)I bet you're sure that Christians don't actually need to follow those pesky commandments like bearing false witness, right? Well at least not when dealing with horrible evil atheists who deserve it!
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But if you did, sorry.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Because I've observed plenty of Christians just like you.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)You obviously feel confident that you know enough about me to judge.
And how would you describe your particular type of atheist?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)And I'm the type of atheist that doesn't believe in gods. So pretty much like every other atheist.
Since atheism isn't a religion or belief system, there's really nothing else to it.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)As an atheist, how do you treat believers?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)What does atheism say I should do?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I asked you how you personally behave, and you immediately pivot to how I view atheism as a philosophy.
So how does your personal philosophy of atheism influence your behavior toward theists?
(Note that I avoided using the "belief" word.)
trotsky
(49,533 posts)I have no personal philosophy of atheism. There's no such thing. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods. I understand you have difficulty accepting this.
But I also understand why you are trying so desperately to avoid the topic of Christians not behaving according to their religious beliefs, which is what I brought up.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Yes, I did notice that. It is a simple question that you apparently will not answer. Which might lead one to speculate.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Yeah, sure, I'm avoiding the question that I've told you I can't answer.
Go ahead and speculate all you want. I'm not threatened by you, nor by your all-too-typical "Christian" behavior.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Here was the question:
As an atheist, how do you treat believers?
What is unanswerable?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)As a guitarist, how do you treat believers?
As a bowler, how do you treat believers?
As a librarian, how do you treat believers?
Nothing about playing the guitar, bowling, or being a librarian has anything to say about how one should treat believers. Nor does atheism. Your religion, on the other hand, has a lot to say about how you're supposed to act. What do you think your religion tells you to do when it comes to being honest and kind? Do you think it says you should lie about people and insult them?
I understand if you'd rather once again try and make this about your strange question that I can't answer because it doesn't make sense. I've explained the best I can why I don't think it makes sense. But what's more telling is your steadfast refusal to even address the topic I've brought up.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)So I asked a question based on that identification.
And you refuse to answer anything about how you treat people.
But since you asked, as a guitarist, I try to not pick on people. But I do occasionally tune people out.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Neither of those characteristics has anything to do with how I treat believers either.
Your religion, on the other hand, has a lot to say about how you're supposed to act. What do you think your religion tells you to do when it comes to being honest and kind? Do you think it says you should lie about people and insult them?
I understand if you'd rather once again try and make this about your strange question that I can't answer because it doesn't make sense. I've explained the best I can why I don't think it makes sense. But what's more telling is your steadfast refusal to even address the topic I've brought up.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And people in general?
And we have a common interest in the Beatles.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)If they are hypocrites or defend the horrible things their church (or religion in general) does, I treat them pretty poorly.
Now it's my turn to finally get answers.
Your religion has a lot to say about how you're supposed to act. What do you think your religion tells you to do when it comes to being honest and kind? Do you think it says you should lie about people and insult them?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)If I respond to what I see as insulting and misleading posts, is that evidence of bad intent?
If I am repeatedly accused of trying to define what it is to be a Christian when my posts make no such claim, what am I to think about the accuser?
Do I assume that the accuser is deliberately trying to misrepresent my positions, or do I assume that the accuser does not properly comprehend my posts?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)That evidently you only have to be remorseful for hurt you *intentionally* caused.
Even when it's been pointed out to you that your words have insulted and misled. You didn't mean to, so it's all good. Or the person is just stupid. Doubling down - that's a bold move, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off.
Amazing how just a simple apology and retraction would do wonders - but you refuse. So it continues.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)At this point I cannot claim to be surprised. You freely insult theists here, ascribing motives and meaning while refusing to admit that you also make claims about theists that are unsupported by any posts.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Just the hypocrites.
Fix The Stupid
(948 posts)How do you 'treat' kids who believe in Santa Clause?
How do you 'treat' people who believe in Zeus?
Whatever you answer to those questions, is how I would answer your question.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I have no idea of your particular beliefs, and the question was not intended as a general question, but your non-answer also avoids the question.
Fix The Stupid
(948 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)struggle4progress
(118,309 posts)Last edited Sun Jan 22, 2017, 03:33 PM - Edit history (1)