Tell me all about religious tolerance.

[AtheistCrusader]

http://www.onepeterfive.com/bishop-schneider-freemasonry-instrument-satan-seeking-destroy-church/

Bishop Athanasius Schneider, a collaborator with Cardinal Burke and an auxiliary bishop of Astana, Kazakhstan, have given a lecture on “Mary, conqueror of all heresies”, in which he warned that Freemasonry is an “instrument of Satan”. Bishop Schneider made this observation in the context of 2017 being the 300th anniversary of the foundation of Freemasonry with the establishment of the first Grand Lodge in London.

Bishop Schneider described the past 300 years of Freemasonry as turbulent and hidden, in pursuit of a revolutionary and subversive ambition. He described Freemasonry as a “tool of Satan” that has largely shied away from daylight since its foundation.

Bishop Schneider went on to recall St Maximilian Kolbe’s recollections of the Freemasons’ aggressive celebrations of their 200th anniversary in Rome during 1917, in the middle of the First World War. His Lordship related St Maximilian Kolbe’s description of Freemasonry openly declaring war on the Catholic Church. The Freemason littered Rome with posters showing the Archangel Michael defeated on the ground trampled beneath a triumphant Lucifer. In their protests against the Catholic Church, the Freemasons also displayed the black flag of the heretic Giordano Bruno, a Dominican friar who promoted materialistic pantheism, a central belief of Freemasonry. (Bruno also denied fundamental doctrines of the Faith).

As a consequence of witnessing the Freemasons’ hostility towards the Church in 1917, St Maximilian Kolbe decided to found the Militia Immaculatae [The Knights of the Immaculate] to counteract the actions of Lucifer.

Giordano had his head bound with wood, tied upside down to a stake, and was burned. Just an FYI. For 'thought crime'.


I know some masons, they all seem pretty chill people.

[1965Comet]

1. Are there many Catholics in Kazakhstan?

Seems more like Ortho territory to me...

[Act_of_Reparation]

6. 60,000 in that diocese alone.

From what I've gathered most are transplants from Germany, Eastern Europe, and Greece.

[trotsky]

2. Yeah but a Trump supporter got kicked out of an atheist group in Boston.

So that's basically the same thing.

[guillaumeb]

10. We are in agreement.

Intolerance is a human response that is not limited to one group.

[trotsky]

16. LMAO!!!!

[guillaumeb]

17. A funny way to agree, but whatever works for you.

Laughter is good for the soul. No, in deference to your views, make that: laughter is good for the person laughing.

[trotsky]

23. BWAHAHAHA

The jokes keep coming! Wow, you missed your calling - you should do standup!

[guillaumeb]

41. I have not used my two Corinthians joke yet.

That comes during the encore.

[DetlefK]

3. That's so historically incorrect on so many levels...

The Freemasons were founded as a sect of the Hermetic Tradition and were thus a very weird version of Christianity. Radically at odds with church-doctrine, but by no means satanic.
The Hermetic Movement/Tradition/Philosophy is based on the book "Corpus Hermeticum", which contains elements of christian, jewish and greek religion.

The Freemasons went underground and became a secret society because the works of Isaac Casaubon had proven that the Corpus Hermeticum was not from Old Testament-times, but from 200AD. While the hermetic movement had been a powerful religious and artistic force for 200 years (present in royal courts, in the court of Pope Alexander VI, in universities, in virtually all of high-society...), it lost all of a sudden almost all of its credibilty and no serious scholar wanted to be associated with it anymore.

The only people who still believed in hermeticism were suddenly viewed as weirdos and religious fanatics and that's why they went underground.





And that about Giordano Bruno is so radically false I don't know where to begin.

If Giordano Bruno was supposed to a materialist, why did he write a dozen books about the human, magic, God and the cosmos and how it all bonds together???????????????????????????

And Giordano Bruno was no pantheist. He was an adherent of the hermetic tradition/philosophy, which contained among many other complicated concepts the "spiritus mundi", the world-spirit. Except that the spiritus mundi was the bonding agent between the humans and the judeo-christian God, essentially making it the Holy Spirit of Christianity.

And though the precise reasons why Giordano Bruno was declared heretic and burned at the stake are lost to history*, it MIGHT have something to do with the fact that his teachings declared the Catholic Church a perversion of the "original Christianity" ("original Christianity" as per Bruno's own, narrow interpretations of the hermetic scriptures).







* Funny story. The documents were in the Vatican's archives. Then Napoleon ordered that a bunch of those archives be moved to France. Where they were stored improperly and got water-damage. And so historical documents of the Vatican got sold as mulch to a french cardboard-factory.

[guillaumeb]

9. I do not notice any replies to your response.

Perhaps because your response does not fit the narrative being promoted here?

[muriel_volestrangler]

58. Which narrative do you think that doesn't fit?

The thread starter obviously disagrees with Schneider and his paranoid Satanic freemason conspiracy theory. They don't like how the Catholics murdered Bruno - that's why their comment was:

"Giordano had his head bound with wood, tied upside down to a stake, and was burned. Just an FYI. For 'thought crime'.

I know some masons, they all seem pretty chill people."

So a response that says it's nonsense to claim masons are Satanic, or that Bruno was a materialist, is agreeing with AtheistCrusader. So, which other poster in this thread are you accusing or promoting a narrative, but not replying to a post that doesn't fit it? (It must be someone who posted before your reply #9, so not many to choose from.)

[guillaumeb]

61. It was my interpretation.

And remains my interpretation. If your interpretation varies I respect that.

[muriel_volestrangler]

62. Do you mean that you really do think post #3 goes against the 'narrative' of the thread starter?

Wow. Just wow. "Interpretation" might be a good term for this - there seems to be basic issues of differing language and word definitions for you to "interpret" it like that.

It'd be interesting to hear from either DetlefK or AtheistCrusader to see if either of them think they have opposing 'narratives'.

[guillaumeb]

63. Again, you are free to come to your own interpretation on this matter. eom

[trotsky]

68. LOL!!!

[AtheistCrusader]

72. I did not find DetlefK's post discomfiting.

The poster is correct that the history of Bruno is more complex than the version I posted, and some of the evidence is lost to history.

I still stand by the essence of it, as an execution for thought-crime. But the specific nature of what he was saying or what can be attributed to him, is less clear than the version I have gotten from say, Carl Sagan's 'Cosmos' book.

[DetlefK]

77. I just find it weird that Bruno gets hailed as a hero of free-thinking...

when he was actually a fanatic believer of religion, magic and quackery.

He tried to come up with a system of influences that would have made him a wielder of magic. And what happened when his attempts at magic failed? Did he think that maybe his idea is wrong? No, he ran deeper into the woods with ever-more fantastical and convoluted systems (who also failed to turn him into a sorcerer...)

[Iggo]

4. It's a thing atheists have in abundance.

All goddam motherfucking day.

[rug]

5. Do you know what onepeterfive means?

The link you posted is to a right wing traditionalist Catholic group.

Here they are in a basement saying a Mass in Latin.

[Goblinmonger]

7. Well, a simple google search of that image

retrieves this: Archbishop Sample celebrating a Pontifical Mass at the Throne in the Extraordinary Form at the Brigittine Monastery of Our Lady of Consolation in Amity, OR, March 2014 (Photo credit: Mark Salvatore)

If we look that place up, we get this link. If you go to that link and look at that chapel, you'll see some pretty well lit stained glass windows on the side which indicate this is NOT in a basement.

So, will you insult, deflect, or just admit you lied? I can give odds if anyone wants to place bets.

[rug]

12. I take it you didn't click the link in the OP.

http://www.onepeterfive.com/about/

It looks like the group the OP linked you is in the business of fraud.

Simpler than a google search.

BTW, you're not suggesting the Tridentine Mass is not in Latin, are you?

[AtheistCrusader]

20. I can't tell the difference between these people and the pope.

I will grant, it appears a smaller group than I thought when I originally posted the article, as illustrative of religious intolerance against the masons. So, I appreciate you drawing attention to that.

But in all seriousness, I have no idea, looking at the content on this site, how they are 'right wing' moreso than.. the pope. Cannot identify. Both seem to meet the same litmus tests.

[rug]

24. Five years ago I'd have agreed.

But not now. This group is to the Catholic Church what the John Birch Society is to American politics, but with much more nostalgia. They're digging their heels in though.

There are a lot of radical strands in the RCC, especially in the area of poverty, human dignity, immigration and a host of what would be called progressive values were they political positions and not religious ones.

At the same time there are a lot of repressive strands, obviously in the area of sexxuality, but also in the interactions of church and state.

Whichever strand is prominent will tell you who they are. But they're all in the Catholic Church.

http://www.catholicworker.org/

http://www.opusdei.org/en/

[AtheistCrusader]

30. They seem to be actual members of the RCC though.

Like, this 1P5 thing is a weekend gig or something, a 'social group', whereas they maintain membership in the official church as people.

The group Guillameb linked, these people are members of independent churches. Not under the auspices of the RCC.


Same same? Or different?

[rug]

32. That is true.

What is or is not a Roman Catholic Organization, with the approval of the Pope or local bishop is defined by Canon Law.

That said, only the most authoritarian bishops would claim that members of CTA or 1P5 are not Catholic.

There are a lot of groups like this, both on the left and on the right.

Here's one of the strangest:

http://www.sspv.org/

Among its positions is that the Society of Pius X is too liberal.

[AtheistCrusader]

33. Interesting.

There is more to this than I thought at first blush, and the 1P5 folks are more margin-living than I thought.

I don't consider CTA a completely valid counterpoint, because I can't imagine too many bishops accepting the female priest member of CTA as a catholic priest. Maybe I'm wrong on that. I know zero bishops.

[rug]

37. A more pertinent example is Dignity versus Courage.

Dignity began as an organization within the Church ministering to same sex Catholics until bishops barred them from Church property for violating Church doctrine on sexuality.

Since then, Dignity has continued without the support of the hierarchy. In turn, the hierarchy sponsored Courage which also is an official organization ministering to same sex Catholics but it teaches celibacy.

Personally I am bemused. You can't teach celibacy. I would wager the priests involved in Courage spend at least as much time preaching about the benefits of Confession as they do about celibacy.

https://www.dignityusa.org/

https://couragerc.org/

[muriel_volestrangler]

59. Schnieder has got some mainstream Catholic attention, though

For instance, the Catholic Herald is the mainstream Catholic publication in the UK:

Bishop Athanasius Schneider: ‘We are in the fourth great crisis of the Church’

Liberals, collaborating with the “new paganism”, are driving the Catholic Church towards a split, according to Bishop Athanasius Schneider, the liturgical specialist who is carrying on a rearguard fight against “abuses” in the Church.

So serious are the problems, Bishop Schneider said in an interview last week, that this is the fourth great crisis in the history of the Church, comparable to the fourth-century Arian heresy in which a large part of the Church hierarchy was implicated.

If you have not heard of the Soviet-born bishop, you will. The sincere, scholarly clergyman is auxiliary bishop of the distant Archdiocese of St Mary in Astana, Kazakhstan. But this month he has received a rock star welcome from congregations across the country on his tour of England and he has embraced cyberspace to put over a trenchant, traditional defence of the Church. “Thanks be to God, the internet exists,” he said.

His views are not popular with everyone, especially not some of his liberal colleagues, or, he says, with the mainstream media of the secular world. But his audiences tell another story.

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/06/06/bishop-athanasius-schneider-we-are-in-the-fourth-great-crisis-of-the-church/

[rug]

60. Thanks. I had heard very little of him.

Somebody like him comes along every so often and makes a splash until the extreme weirdness (as opposed to the usual weirdness) brings things to a breaking point.

For instance, look at the career of Leonard Feeney https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Feeney and Marcel Lefebvre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Lefebvre.

I'm not optimistic for the career of Bishop Schneider given where he's come from. He belongs to the Order of Canons Regular of the Holy Cross of Coimbra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canons_Regular_of_the_Holy_Cross_of_Coimbra which in turn is affiliated with Opus Sanctorum Angelorum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_Sanctorum_Angelorum.

The main problem with groups like this is that, while their beliefs have roots in traditional Catholicism, they augment certain of them at the expense of others bringing the organizations to a truly deformed and distorted place. They also tend to be focused on a charismatic leader and tend to splinter after his (although there have been some led by a woman) death.

[Goblinmonger]

53. So the smart money was on deflect.

Here is ALL I was saying:

1. you tried to pass this off as people hiding in a basement somewhere saying this mass.
2. I gave you links that showed that that was not true.

That's IT. No subtext. No "suggesting." Nothing else. You lied about what that picture was. Or you were mistaken. Or you were misled. Not sure how you got to the point of posting that picture and saying it was in a basement.

[rug]

55. Lol, there is no smart money betting on this.Yo

You really are obsessed proving this is a a basement while ignoring the fact this sketchy group snatched this photo because it shows a Latin Mass.

Maybe you're just spoilinhg for a personal
fight with me and are latching on to anything, no matter how trivial,

Let me know which it is, monger, and I'll get off mobile.

[Goblinmonger]

56. Your statement about it being in a basement was wrong.

That's it. That's my point. Don't know why you can't just say "Oh, hey, my bad. I presented that incorrectly."

People have posted incorrect information in here. You and others have pointed that out. That's all I'm doing.

[rug]

57. It wasn't a basmemt.

But it's still a Latin Mass and this is still a fringe group.

[Goblinmonger]

65. That wasn't so hard.

Yes, it is a Latin Mass. And I have not been active in the RCC to know how fringe of a group it is, but it certainly was when I was active. I would imagine it is gaining some traction much like Trump. Though probably not enough to make it mainstream.

[AtheistCrusader]

11. Not a fucking clue.

I know none of your secret handshakes.

[rug]

13. You should do due diligence on your links.

[AtheistCrusader]

18. Point me to a left wing catholic group.

One that supports a woman's right to choose.
One that supports the use of family planning.
One that supports equal marriage.

How are you defining 'right wing' that doesn't scoop up the whole official US wing of the RCC?

[guillaumeb]

21. Allow me to help you:

http://cta-usa.org/

There are more, this is an older article:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/06/americas-progressive-catholics-another-side-of-the-church/241095/

[AtheistCrusader]

22. These people are independent catholics, not part of the RCC.

Try again.

The RCC does not have female priests. (A right-wing position of the RCC itself)

"The ACCUS and its affiliated Worldwide jurisdictions are not under the jurisdiction of the Roman Catholic Church and are therefore not subject to the same rules and regulations."

[guillaumeb]

36. Keep moving the marker.

You asked:

Point me to a left wing catholic group.

One that supports a woman's right to choose.
One that supports the use of family planning.
One that supports equal marriage.

And I did. So your question was answered. So no retry is necessary unless you ask another question.

[AtheistCrusader]

46. We will have to agree to disagree on whether these independent catholic groups are indeed catholic.

[guillaumeb]

47. Given how much variance there is among Catholics

in what they believe, and how they act, if someone declares that they are Catholic I will accept that declaration.

Would you disagree, and if so, why?

[AtheistCrusader]

48. The Catholic Church is a members only club.

It's very easy to go against church dogma when you're not a member of the church.

By comparison some of the 1P5 people are actual members of the church in the sense of not just people in pews. Control-f and enter 'father' in the 'about us' page. I found no equivalence in the group you cited.

Keep in mind, I am not belittling the group you found. Their cause is laudable, and might prove more effective in dragging the RCC to the left than my sarcasm and negativity.

That's all I want. At the end of the day. Move left. Decouple from politics or move left.

[guillaumeb]

49. Decouple from politics should be a given, given their non-profit status.

I do not know if you are aware of these names, but if not, Google
Dorothy Day,
Thomas Merton,
Phillip Berrigan,
Daniel Berrigan,
Jerome Berrigan,
Kathy Kelly,
and read a bit. These few are the most visible tip of the Catholic left. Their voices are not heard enough.

[AtheistCrusader]

70. Should be, but recall the church threatening Nancy Pelosi with refusal of communion.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-29-pelosi-communion_x.htm

I think it's a special kind of evil to sell people on the idea of an immortal soul, and then mortgage the 'salvation' of that soul against your political values.

For a non-profit entity, the church is deeply intertwined in, and has strong views on politics.

[guillaumeb]

80. No argument.

Another Bishop also threatened Kerry voters with refusal. An outrageous violation for a 501(c)3 entity.

[rug]

26. Beat me to it.

[AtheistCrusader]

28. Hang on.

The people in Guillameb's link aren't, at first scrub through the About link, members of the RCC.

The people at 1P5 seem to be.



Are these apples and apples for comparison? In my mind, they are not.

[rug]

29. From what I see both CTA and 1P5 have the same status. Neither are official RCC organizations.

[AtheistCrusader]

31. As orgs, yes.

But look closely at the members of each.

I'm not 100% on this, but it LOOKS like the people in 1P5 are also actual members in good standing of the RCC. Am I wrong?

[rug]

35. I don't know enough about this group. This is the first I've heard of them.

But they may well be in good standing. Unless it's a sedevacantist group, they probably are in good standing. The sedevacantist groups say the seat of the Bishop of Rome has been vacant (sede vacante, "empty seat&quot since the death of Pius XII in 1958.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedevacantism

[guillaumeb]

38. If you look at AC's Post #22, the marker has just been moved.

I understand the attempt to categorize, and the attempt to paint the RCC as a monolith composed of identically believing people. It makes for an easier argument.

[rug]

42. I believe he's technically correct.

Unless a church or an organization is in communion with Rome it is independent.

Nevertheless, the breadth of the RCC has many, many, groups in communion with it which at first glance are polar opposites.

There is a danger in viewing the RCC in purely political terms. There is a core set of principles (really, no more than a handful), all religious in nature, and then there are the manifestations of those principles expressed in different places and at different times.

Finally, there are just plain religious nuts, just as there are political nuts. Sometimes it takes a while to sort them out.

[hrmjustin]

14. I love those vestments!

[rug]

15. Lol!

Join the Brigittines!

https://www.brigittine.org/

(Link courtesy of Goblinmonger.)

[guillaumeb]

19. The Latin Mass was very...... visual.

But I preferred the regular Mass.

[hrmjustin]

50. Some Episcopalians still have altars that face liturgical east and the priest says mass facing

the altar.

[Bretton Garcia]

25. So you Rug, object to this rival Catholic group?

Do you want to say they are, say,
heretics? Should they be abolished? Or....?

[rug]

27. They need this.

[guillaumeb]

39. The ultimate in convincing.

Even worse would be locked in that coffin with Michelle Bachmann or Sarah Palin.

[rug]

43. I'd prefer the spikes.

[guillaumeb]

44. You probably did not even have to consider the choice for very long. eom

[Bretton Garcia]

52. : /

[guillaumeb]

8. My father in law was a Mason.

If I had known that they are tools of Satan I would certainly have been on my guard. He, my father in law, also had a large collection of tools. THAT explains it.

[COLGATE4]

34. As a 32 degree Mason

I can tell you that the cost of all the tools is just back-breaking. My last power miter set me back over $100 and haven't even been able to try it out on a Satanist yet! I tells ya

[guillaumeb]

40. Just wait.

Trump and Cruz will be starting up the New Inquisition any day now. But if they find out you post here, you might be looking up as the tools come down.

[COLGATE4]

45. The real tools are Trump and Cruz.

Complete and utter tools.

[Humanist_Activist]

51. About a mile down the street from me is a Masonic temple...

they always advertise that the hall is for rent, but what's funny is right across the street from them is a Catholic Church.

[DetlefK]

54. Giordano Bruno was killed for being a religious extremist and asshole. Not "thought crimes".

Seriously. Go read up ANYTHING about Giordano Bruno before spreading such bullshit.

[muriel_volestrangler]

64. For expressing views, then

OK, he spoke and published his thoughts, but his religious "extremism" didn't involve any harm to anyone. And "killed for being an asshole" is damn close to "killed for thought crime". Arguably, it's worse.

'Heresy' was the charge: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Giordano-Bruno

In 1599, Jesuit theologian Robert Bellarmine, who had served as a consultant to the Inquisition since 1592, was made a cardinal by Pope Clement VIII. With his red hat, Bellarmine could be appointed directly to the Board of Inquisition, and he used his new power and incisive mind to turn the screws on Giordano Bruno. Bellarmine began by reducing the long list of Bruno's possible heresies to eight propositions, each of which Bruno would have to abjure if he were to save his life. The actual record of the eight proposition has been lost, but the Church's summary of Bruno's trial provides several clues. The summary indicates that there were four general subjects of concern on which Bruno refused to budge, specifically his beliefs about (1) the Trinity, divinity, and incarnation, (2) the existence of multiple worlds, (3) the souls of humans and animals, and (4) the art of divination. Bruno's opinions on all these matters, as well as his contention that "the sin of the flesh" was not a mortal sin, seem to have been the central focus of Bellarmine's questioning.

Bruno responded to Bellarmine's insistent questioning of his most stubbornly held beliefs by demanding that Bellarmine prove that the Pope considered each of eight propositions to be "definitely heretical." Bruno indicated that if Bellarmine could provide such proof, he would consider abjuring his positions. Bellarmine, however, undoubtedly considered Bruno's demand to be an insolent challenge to his authority, and the demand for papal intervention certainly did not help Bruno's case. Nor, to be sure, did Bruno's final retort to Bellarmine after a series of escalating insults: "You lie through your throat." Frustrated by his intransigence, Bruno's inquisitors debated subjecting Bruno to torture, although historical records to not answer the question of whether it was actually inflicted. At the least, Bruno must have been aware of the threat, and for many prisoners, the threat alone might be enough to produce a retraction. But not for Bruno. Ingrid Rowland, in her biography of Bruno, writes that by this point, "In his own way, in his own terms, Giordano Bruno now began to prepare for his own martyrdom."

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/bruno/brunoaccount.html

[DetlefK]

66. His heresy was trying to replace Christianity with a sun-worshipping polytheist religion.

This was more than just "expressing views". He was branding the contemporary christian doctrines as a perversion and corruption of the Christianity as God had originally intended it: As a polytheistic, sun-worshipping religion that enables people to do sorcery via the invocation of angelic and daemonic powers.

Heretic enough for you?

And he really was an asshole: He had a choleric temper, he insulted anybody who dared to hold another opinion and he ever refused to consider that his fantastical, over-complicated, self-referential occult cosmology was anything but the ultimate truth.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommaso_Campanella
Tommaso Campanella was a contemporary of Giordano Bruno and no less heretic. (Their teachings were thematically very close to each other.) Except that Campanella was a likable character with diplomatic talent. And so, while Bruno was burned at the stake, Campanella was released from prison and lived on many years and wrote many, many more books about his heretic philosophy. (The "Citta del Sole" is a very interesting concept for a civilization.)

But Campanella died of old age and Bruno a violent death. And that's why the Nolan is world-famous and virtually nobody has ever heard of Campanella.

[muriel_volestrangler]

67. You're not making it look any less like thoughtcrime

Heresy is religious thoughtcrime.

The first and simplest stage in the discipline, which can be taught even to young children, is called, in Newspeak, CRIMESTOP. CRIMESTOP means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction.

Nineteen Eighty Four

[AtheistCrusader]

69. How is that a death-worthy thing?

Like seriously.

[Act_of_Reparation]

71. I'm surprised how often this comes up.

It seems like everytime someone brings up Bruno, someone else says, "He wasn't burned alive for disagreeing with the church. He was burned alive for being an asshole."

As if that's somehow better.

[AtheistCrusader]

73. Or worse, the 'church just found him guilty, and turned him over to the civil government and THEY

executed him for his crimes'.

[Act_of_Reparation]

74. The Inquisition wasn't nearly as cruel as people make it out to be, you know.

There weren't as many totally innocent people tortured and murdered for no reason as commonly believed. So totes OK.

[DetlefK]

75. It was the bad luck of the political climate.

The protestants and evangelicals had reached their peak. They had spread out everywhere in Europe. Bruno's works coincided with the catholic counter-reformation, where they pushed back against all sorts of new dogmas that had spread over the last decades.



Fun Fact about Giordano Bruno:
He was a contemporary of Copernicus. And when Copernicus pulished that the Earth revolved around the Sun, Bruno pushed this discovery as evidence that his doctrine of a sun-worshipping religion was correct. Copernicus' stance on this was: "Dude. No. That's not what my scientific discovery means." But Bruno kept on using it anyways.

It is also speculated among historians that it was Bruno's and Campanella's obsession with the sun that led the inquisitors to take a closer look at Galileo Galilei, simply because he worked on the same topic. Without Bruno and Campanella, the inquisitors might never have gotten the impression that Galileo's teachings even have religious implications.

[AtheistCrusader]

76. You realize that's STILL thought-crime right?

They would have, and even today, be well within their rights to kick him out of the church.

Not within their rights to execute him, or 'find him guilty' and turn him over to the civil government to execute him for thought-crime.

[muriel_volestrangler]

78. Copernicus died May 24, 1543; Giordano Bruno was born 1548

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/copernicus-dies
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Giordano-Bruno

So no, I don't think Copernicus' stance was "dude..." anything.

[DetlefK]

79. My bad. But I doubt that he would have liked that.