Why do people pray for the dead? What is the goal?

[ZombieHorde]

Is the goal to convince God to allow the deceased into heaven?

[hedgehog]

1. For me, it's based on the notion that heaven is as much a state of mind

as a place. C.S. Lewis covered this in a couple of his books - the notion that sinners would be so self absorbed that they couldn't see the joys of Heaven. If you think people can still improve themselves on the other side, then you can pray for them there just as you would pray for someone on this side.

[ZombieHorde]

43. So you are asking God to help the person see the error of their ways? nt

[hedgehog]

58. Yes, as opposed to banking prayers in some sort of celestial

court to pay for sins.

[Lint Head]

2. That's my understanding. Catholics have purgatory as a stopping place for the souls

of people not yet descended into heaven and they pray for those people as a second chance to go. Mormon's have something similar I think even if you are not Mormon. I'm neither of those faiths but that is my understanding.

[cbayer]

3. This is not something I am that familiar with, but I can think of two possible reasons.

The first is just a way to honor and recall someone who has passed. Perhaps to remind yourself of the good they gave or taught you and to say thanks.

The second is if you believe that there is a spirit or soul that continues to exist. For them you might be just conveying your continued love and wish that they are happy and peaceful.

[emilyg]

4. Exactly how I see it.

[Goblinmonger]

9. This right here is why you need to not make comments about what religion is like in this country.

You're not familiar with it? It is a pretty solid staple of the Catholic and other mainline religions. The fact that you are not familiar with it COMPLETELY destroys your credibility as to your understanding of the state of religion today.

And, yes, I will be bringing this up more times in the future when you decide to tell us that religion in the US is not a particular way.

And, no, I don't expect a response to this or any other reply I make to you. This is for those reading along to know how out of touch you are.

[tama]

11. After the Tsunami

Buddhist monks (they are people too, even though they are not American or Christian prayed for the dead to calm them and ease their passing - in other words sending cool vibes to what they consider still sentient beings. cbayer's second guess. They also took care of the dead bodies and helped the living and mourning every way they could.

As for the vibes your post is sending, a line from a movie I just saw comes to mind: "hurt people hurt people".

[cbayer]

15. During Katrina, I offered what many might consider prayers as well.

When faced with the hard, cold reality of the dead, I felt overwhelmed with misery and said some things silently for them. While I know it helped ease my pain, I think I also hoped it would ease theirs.

[tama]

22. Few years ago

when I was in a drumming circle and there was IIRC the first school killing rampage in Finland, we did that kind of work in a session for all the victims, including the killer who killed also himself. And shared a vision of Mama Bear taking care of the dead.

[grasswire]

24. I had an experience like that

The night sky was strange that night, and it seemed to me as if I could see (although I couldn't) souls floating toward the moon like pale orbs -- sort of like white balloons -- and the sky was full of them. It was quite mysterious. I've never had another experience like that.

[cbayer]

26. Was it a positive experience?

My life is so full of mystery and I am often moved without feeling any need to explain.

We recently found ourselves in a dolphin stampede. The dolphins came to us by the hundreds and stayed with us for a very long time.

While there may be an explanation for this, I chose to just immerse myself in it.

[grasswire]

41. I couldn't explain it. I just watched for a long time.

Oh I remember. It wasn't Katrina. It was Haiti. We knew from CNN that hundreds of people were dying -- had died that day. I was very sad about their misery. I was up in the middle of the night, and looking out the window at the night sky. Trees and the moon and high clouds and those many souls floating.

There isn't any explanation for what I thought/saw.

I guess I have had one other mysterious experience in my life, but it's still a lot to relive even thirty years after. I was with some children at the Eastern shore of Virginia, and it was the end of the day and time to go home. The sky was immense and strange colors and beginning to darken; not a soul to be seen anywhere but me and two kids who had been playing in the dunes. No houses; it was a wild shore refuge. I called them to come to go to the car. One came. The other didn't hear. He was running, running, running along the edge of the dunes, but running the other way, disoriented by the sameness of the dunes and the sky. The wind carried my voice back to me. Nothing was ahead of him but emptiness. I ran. I shrieked. I ran and ran. Too far, couldn't catch up, couldn't reach him. Finally I fell on my knees and uttered one desperate cry. The small figure in the distance stopped, turned, and saw me. Maybe there was some cosmic intervention.

[cbayer]

42. What a wonderful story. It gave me goosebumps.

It may have been the pitch of your scream or something else. It doesn't matter.

[tama]

34. I've had a very similar experience

It was during another drumming session years ago. I visited moon during the trip and at the end there was a flood of dead in the middle of the drumming circle, coming from below and rising up. And Hermes and Bear dancing together.

[brooklynite]

12. Givem the choice between his/her perspective and yours...

I'll go with his/hers...because a perspective was offered. All I see in your posting is a complaint. If you'ld like to offer an alternative opinion on the role of prayer, I'm all ears.

[Goblinmonger]

16. Hmmm, why do Catholics pray for the dead?

How could one find out? It's not like the RCC is some tiny little sect or anything.
https://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=catholics+pray+for+dea&safe=strict

Do you not think that never having heard of something that Catholics do A LOT indicates someone being out of touch with religion in the US? Especially someone that very frequently makes comments about what the state of religion is?

[brooklynite]

35. Please point to which is the official position, as opposed to somebody else's opinion...

[Goblinmonger]

38. I'd probably start with the Catholic Encyclopedia for a solid Catholic viewpoint. n/t

[hedgehog]

57. It's good to find out what people who call themselves Catholics

actually believe as opposed to what some other person thinks they should believe. FWIW, I was in a discussion the other day in which three Catholics had three different definitions of mortal sin! They all agreed it's very hard to commit a mortal sin, and none of them mentioned sex!

[Thats my opinion]

18. This is almost funny, for you

to castigate someone who speaks out about religion if they are not familiar with it. I can think of about a dozen others who regularly tell us what religion means when they are not only totally outside it, but think it is all superstitious foolishness--or worse.

Thankfully I now don't even see what many of them have to say.

[Goblinmonger]

20. Are you telling me I am not familiar with religion?

I was a conservative Catholic for many years. Spent three years in a Catholic minor seminary. I know my religion, thank you.

And for you and your daughter to tell people what the state of religion theology is in this country when one of you admits to not having encountered praying for the dead and the other says it is just about remembering them with no nod to getting them out of purgatory tells me all I need to know about your understanding of the state of current theology. You both clearly live in a protected bubble and have no idea what the majority of religious think and do.

[tama]

23. Instead of

constantly feeding that anger and bitterness, would you like to feel otherwise?

[Goblinmonger]

25. That was neither anger nor bitterness.

Frustration, perhaps.

[tama]

28. OK

Post #9 gave the impression of strong negative feeling (together with mention of Catholicism) looking for personalized external target(s) to create a hostile argument that the feeling could keep feeding on.

[Goblinmonger]

30. My Catholic past is certainly my past, but I harbor no ill toward it.

I have many friends from that experience that are priests and we are still friends and I have great respect for them. I am not an atheist because of some wrong I think religion did to me.

[tama]

36. I was married for 20 years

and I imagine all separation processes involve also hostile emotions to cut the ties and bonds.

[Thats my opinion]

27. Might a catholic minor seminary is not a place to understand the grand scope of religious thought.

I am close to a number of good men who have had that experience and who admit--as you don't--that they understand religion only from a to b.

[Goblinmonger]

29. At least they have you

to show them the full spectrum.

[Thats my opinion]

31. Hardly me! They happen to be persons full of curiosity--which may be the mark of an educated man

[Goblinmonger]

32. That was sarcasm, btw. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

44. So the person praying is letting the deceased know he or she is loved and missed?

Like a call to an old friend?

[cbayer]

49. That could be it. Does a prayer have to be to a deity by definition?

I'm not so sure.

Many, many people talk to those who have recently died. Some may believe that the other hears them. Others may not. Some may believe that their message goes through a god. Others may not.

I get the whole catholic/purgatory thing. The kids in my neighborhood prayed compulsively for dead relatives. I didn't really get it, but it certainly didn't bother me.

I assumed you were talking about all kinds of prayers, not just those connected with the rituals of the catholic church.

One last thing. When I have visited catholic churches which moved me (both very, very small and very, very large), I have sometimes lit a candle and thought about people no longer around. I don't think any *actions* occur as a result of this, but it just felt right. I lost a lot of friends to AIDS. Sometimes I just want to think upon them (and maybe they know?).

[ZombieHorde]

53. I was thinking about monotheism when I asked the question, not just the RCC.

but it just felt right

I can't argue against that.

I lit candles for the dead when I was a child in a Catholic Church, but I did not feel anything. I was just doing what my mother asked me to do.

[Speck Tater]

5. For the same reason people pray for anything...

They think God screwed up, and they are trying to set Him straight by telling Him what to do.

On the one hand believers claim God is all knowing and all loving and all wise and has some kind of eternal divine plan, and then they turn around and say, with their prayers, "but hey God, forget that divine plan because I've got a better idea."

[tularetom]

8. Yep, they also think they can fool God

These are the same people who make a big public show out of their piety but pretty much ignore all of God's commandments. Which tells me that they really don't believe God is omniscient because if he was he'd sure as hell be able to see through all their bullshit.

[Speck Tater]

40. You got that right! +1 nt

[atheous]

6. Pointless..

I think it goes back to when people were summarily hung for petty crimes..
May GAWD have mercy on your soul, but we don't really give a rats fart so... DROP-Snap...

[seabeyond]

7. i think it is more the comfort of connecting with the person lost

and the feeling that the loss is not so great.

there is no one reason when it comes to dealing with loss. even in religion

[ZombieHorde]

45. The act itself is the goal?

That makes sense to me.

[seabeyond]

48. personally

i think that is with all prayer....

and i could explain it in terms of religion (not on du) that would jive with the bible.

[ZombieHorde]

51. That is how many occultists feel about prayer. nt

[seabeyond]

52. hm... i dont know about that

and dont really know what you mean by that either.

[ZombieHorde]

54. My father is an occultist, and some of my friends are occultists, and their opinion

on prayer is very similar to yours.

I was just sharing perceived similarities between you and some of my loved ones.

[seabeyond]

55. i just dont know anything about occultists

1. The study of the supernatural. 2. A belief in occult powers and the possibility of bringing them under human control.


i didnt know what you were talking about so hey... google is your friend.

k. now i get it. i always refer to that more as spiritualist. and beyond, lol. but i get it.


and i can see why you would think that.

thanks zombie

[xfundy]

10. To control the living.

And intimidate the masses. The primary mission of missionaries.

[rug]

13. Don't you remember the communion of saints?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communion_of_Saints

[Starboard Tack]

14. Catholics pray for the souls of their ancestors, to free them from purgatory

They light candles (which they pay for), say a prayer and grandma's soul got one step closer to heaven. It's a huge money maker for Vatican Inc., especially as there is no feedback and no lack of ancestors to pray for.

[Thats my opinion]

17. Leaving aside those who see religion as only some sort of manipulation of God or superstition, who

just can't believe that there is anything other than that in religion,prayers for the dead are common. It is a way to remember and to keep those who have cherished, alive in our minds. In praying for the dead we are reminded of the continuity of history; "the communion of saints." In religion we know that who we are is always the products of those whose influence has gone before. When I remember my son who was killed many years ago, and thank God for his short life and for my memories of him, that is form of prayer. I don't want to change anything or manipulate God. I just want to celebrate a life that was precious to me.

[Goblinmonger]

19. If you are going to bring up the communion of saints

then you should not be so dismissive of the concept that the RCC prays for the dead to get them out of purgatory. They ask for the intercession of the saints to help the dead that are in purgatory.

But go ahead and keep acting like that side of religion is just some minor little blip on the radar.

[Thats my opinion]

33. Thus the Protestant reformation. Hardly a blip on the radar.

Last edited Tue Apr 24, 2012, 05:40 PM - Edit history (1)

"So wie das gelt in Kaston klingt,
Die Seela aus dem fegfeuer springt"
Fr.Tetzel

[rug]

37. Let's not go off on indulgences.

[Goblinmonger]

39. Funniest thing I've read from you all week. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

46. So for you, saying the prayer fulfills the goal?

You receive therapeutic results from the act of praying?

When I remember my son who was killed many years ago, and thank God for his short life and for my memories of him, that is form of prayer.

I'm sorry.

[Thats my opinion]

47. "Therapeutic results" is far too clinical a description. nt

[ZombieHorde]

50. By "therapeutic results," I mean praying for the deceased helps one through the grieving process.

Is that still too clinical? Is there some subtle aspect that I am missing?

[grasswire]

21. further, what does "safe passage" mean?

what would happen if the "passage" was not safe?

[Odin2005]

56. It's a superstition found in all societies.

Mixed in with wishful thinking and grief reactions.

In some societies such prayers and rituals are don because they believe that the loved one must be forced to go to Heaven lest they become a ghost and terrorize you, LMAO!