The religious right is being left behind

[rug]

Feb. 14, 2016 Updated 12:00 a.m.
By JOEL KOTKIN / Staff columnist

The religious right, once a major power in American politics, is entering an uncomfortable dotage. Although numerous and well-organized enough to push Ted Cruz over the top in Iowa, the social conservative base, two-thirds of them born-again Christians, was of little use in New Hampshire, one of the most secular states in the Union. In the Granite State, Cruz did best among evangelicals but still slightly trailed Donald Trump among this one-quarter of New Hampshire Republicans.

More importantly, Cruz’s religious strategy might not be enough to allow the Texan to vault past his main rivals, even in the “Bible Belt” states like South Carolina, where Real Clear Politics polls last week showed Donald Trump more than 16 points ahead. This, along with the total collapse of Ben Carson’s religiously based campaign, reflects, in part, slowing growth on the religious right. Evangelicals, who are the cutting edge of the movement, are gaining market share among Christians only because of sharper declines among mainstream Protestants and Catholics. Overall, notes Pew, 68 percent of Americans now believe religion is losing influence in society.

In contrast, momentum is shifting to the religiously unaffiliated, whose numbers are rising rapidly, from 37.6 million in 2007 to 57 million in 2014. This process is particularly marked among millennials, a large portion of whom appear to have little interest in organized religion. Even if people remain spiritually inclined – and most Americans still are – the lack of church attendance makes mobilization of the faithful ever more difficult.

Most importantly, some 34percent of millennials profess to having no religion, compared with 23 percent of the overall population.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/religious-703979-trump-among.html

[RKP5637]

1. Good read! K&R! n/t

[Bagsgroove]

2. "The Republicans are like the Beach Boys"

This is the long term demographic dilemma for the GOP. The Fundamentalist, "guns, God and gays" part of the party is dying off, yet it's still large enough that Republican presidential candidates need to go to them on bended knee during the primaries and swear that they don't believe in evolution, want to put gay folks back in the closet, and that Planned Parenthood should be closed down.

The eventual winner then tries to turn "mainstream" for the general election, but has to answer for the long trail of stupid things he said following him from the primaries. (Does anybody remember the look on Mitt Romney's face in 2012 when he was asked the question, "do you believe in evolution?" I almost--not quite, but almost--felt sorry for the guy.)

As John Stewart put it, "The Republicans are like the Beach Boys. Their fans are dying."

[rug]

3. That's a killer line.

[saltpoint]

4. I reject the Biblical literalists because,

for example, it is not my experience that what happened to Jonah is likely to have happened or likely ever to happen. People get bitten by rattlesnakes now and again. I believe that. I tend to give rattlesnakes wide berth.

I reference rattlesnakes because it's legal in West Virginia to use them in religious ceremonies. "Ye shall take up serpents!" Speaking strictly for myself, I won't be taking up any serpents, particularly with rattles on their tails, in West Virginia or anyplace else. If the Biblical literalists in West Virginia fundie communities want to take them up, please proceed, West Virginia fundies. It might reduce the GOP voter rolls by at least a little.

Might Jonah's story suggest the shamanic experience? I might be more interested in the passage if it were. I'd be more interested in Jonah if it were.

[rug]

5. This book discusses exactly that in chapter 4.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Y-8YBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA70&lpg=PA70&dq=jonah+%2B+shaman&source=bl&ots=7qA7pVVmue&sig=pH7kMO-PNfKyvX7Vp2ANOMJe22c&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJifezyPfKAhVKbj4KHUkqDz8Q6AEIJDAC#v=onepage&q=jonah%20%2B%20shaman&f=false

[saltpoint]

6. rug, hi, and it looks as if I may

have to give the thing a look.

Thanks for putting up the link.

[rug]

7. I scrolled around a bit. It looks like the whole book is there.

[AwakeAtLast]

8. The Religious Right is neither religious nor right

Discuss.


Party time, excellent!

[skepticscott]

9. No True Scotsman

is still a bogus argument.

[rug]

10. So is invoking a logical fallacy incorrectly.

[skepticscott]

11. Feel free to point out the incorrectness

Starting with your proof that members of the religious right are not actually religious.

[rug]

12. I just did, scottie.

Starting with your embarassing conflation of the pun with a political position.

Unless of course you believe the "Religious Right" is correct. i.e., right.. That might save your misapplication of the fallacy.

[skepticscott]

13. Nice try

But I said nothing about the poster's use of the word "right", now did I? Didn't stop you from your usual intellectual dishonesty.

Still waiting for the proof that they aren't religious, as claimed.

[rug]

14. Tsk, cherry-picking again, scottie.

NTS is applied to all sorts of things, not simply religion. As it does here. Much to your chagrin, I'm sure.

Never accuse anyone of intellectual dishonesty again when you're wearing no pants.

[stone space]

15. The late Fr. Phil Berrigan agreed with you on the so-called christian right, it appears.

The Religious Right is neither religious nor right

Fighting the Lamb's War: Skirmishes with the American Empire.

The Autobiography of Phillip Berrigan, with Fred A. Wilcox

(from page 219 of the 1996 edition.)

My critics say that I must "Love or Leave" America. I have never considered becoming an expatriate. This is my country. I was born and raised here. The United States has fostered and nourished me. And even though the government does not represent the people, this country belongs to us.

People talk about taking the country back from the usurpers, but what does this mean? In the name of liberty and justice, Pat Buchanan and friends want to establish an Old Testament Theocracy. In their ideal world the state will not only be God’s representative on earth; the state will be God. Persecuting the poor, abolishing Affirmative Action, building more prisons, executing more prisoners, expanding police powers, burning books, denying gay men and women jobs, fanning the fires of bigotry and hate, nourishing the addiction to war; all this will be an expression of God’s will.

How anyone can claim to be a Christian and believe these things is beyond comprehension. The God of the so-called Christian Right is a God of hate, not love; revenge, not forgiveness; death, not life. Such a God is bigoted and spiteful, a misogynist who inflicts pain and misery on the human family. The Christian Right’s vision stems neither from the Bible nor the Constitution, but from the dark and frightened recesses of the human psyche.

As for myself, I continue to resist because there is no alternative. I will not join the establishment. That would be deeply repugnant to me. I intend to stay here, witnessing against violence and madness, obsession with property and glorification of privilege.

Plowshare activists go to jail in order to resist the empire. We are innocent, but there is no other way to make our statement. We make it publicly, in court, before the press and anyone who cares to listen. We do not choose to go to prison. That is the government’s decision. We violate unjust laws, and take the consequences, whatever they may be. But our submission doesn’t mean that we respect the corrupt judicial system. We go to prison for our nonviolent beliefs, not because we accept the empire’s rules.

I remember one quotation from the Book of John, where Jesus says something like, “If they hate me, they will hate you also.” The implication; if they do not hate you, you are not living the life you profess to live. That is, following me.”

Two thousand years have passed, and Caesar reigns. The military occupies our country, a hierarchy of the rich and powerful controls the people’s lives, taxing the poor, beating, jailing, killing, those who resist imperial policies.

For over a period of two thousand years, the Bible has been largely ignored or defiled. The life of Christ is not preached by the established church, and it is not lived by many Christians; not to be wondered that so many “Christians” despise the poor and support the military.

[cleanhippie]

16. Yeah, he came out with both barrels blasting!

That's right up your alley!

[stone space]

18. Please stop gun trolling.

Last edited Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:55 PM - Edit history (1)

with both barrels blasting

That may be your religion, but it's not mine.

I'm an atheist.

I don't worship at the alter of the holy gun.

[AtheistCrusader]

19. It's just an idiom. Don't go off half-cocked.

[stone space]

27. Please stop gun trolling.

Last edited Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:55 PM - Edit history (1)

go off half-cocked

That may be your religion, but it's not mine.

I'm an atheist.

I don't worship at the alter of the holy gun.

[AtheistCrusader]

31. Well, you have to be careful how you alter your guns.

Depending on the result, could be a felony firearms charge.

[stone space]

33. Pleasse stop gun trolling.

guns

felony firearms charge

That may be your religion, but it's not mine.

I'm an atheist.

I don't worship at the alter of the holy gun.

[AtheistCrusader]

38. You keep saying 'gun trolling'.

I don't know what you're aiming at.

[GGJohn]

20. Jeez dude, get a grip,

it's just a saying.

[trotsky]

22. I don't think he can help it.

A bit of a loose cannon at times.

[GGJohn]

23. You ought to see him over in the RKBA group,

he's really a loose cannon there.

[stone space]

29. Please stop gun trolling.

Last edited Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:55 PM - Edit history (1)

loose cannon

That may be your religion, but it's not mine.

I'm an atheist.

I don't worship at the alter of the holy gun.

[GGJohn]

39. Jeez dude, get a grip on reality,

it's just a saying, quit going off on half cocked and becoming a loose cannon.

[stone space]

40. Look, I understand that you are upset with me...

...because I said in another forum that I would gather up my family and that we would run for our lives if some OPEN CARRY assholes like these came into the restaurant, as if by doing so, we are somehow in violation of the 7th Commandment, "Thou Shall Not Steal".

But in doing so, you conveniently choose to forget the 5th Commandment, "Thou Shall Not Kill".

You ought to see him over in the RKBA group,

he's really a loose cannon there.

going off on half cocked and becoming a loose cannon.

The distain that you have repeatedly expressed in other forums for the lives of myself and my family does not justify you barging into the Religion Forum with your gun trolling and your silly little grudges dragged in here from another forum.

[GGJohn]

41. Upset at you?

Hardly, I'm laughing at you.

[trotsky]

42. We ALL are.

Regardless of our opinions on guns!

[stone space]

28. Please stop gun trolling.

Last edited Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:56 PM - Edit history (1)

loose cannon

That may be your religion, but it's not mine.

I'm an atheist.

I don't worship at the alter of the holy gun.

[cleanhippie]

24. He's already got a pistol grip.

[stone space]

30. Please stop gun trolling.

Last edited Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:56 PM - Edit history (1)

a pistol grip

That may be your religion, but it's not mine.

I'm an atheist.

I don't worship at the alter of the holy gun.

[cleanhippie]

43. You keep using that word....

[cleanhippie]

17. No different than the other religious apologists that defend the RCC from pederasty are being left

Behind.


Good riddance, I say.

[trotsky]

21. I updated my ignore list as soon as I heard the news.

Wanted to see what happened. Good riddance indeed.

[rug]

26. Why do you always talk about your alleged ignore list?

It sounds like a talisman.

[trotsky]

34. Hi rug.

I hope your latest timeout helped.

I do indeed have an ignore list, and I use it quite a bit. Would you like to go back on it?

[rug]

25. Such as?

You've got two problems.

The first is name someone defending pederasty.

The second is providing a link from that to rightwing republicans.

[Lordquinton]

35. I'll answer the first: Benedict!

Now, will you answer the long standing question: What does LGBTQIA mean?

[rug]

36. He does not some help here. Unfortunately, you're not it.

[Lordquinton]

37. No he does not help me

You asked for one example of someone who helped pederasts and Benedict is one person who did

Now,, what does LGBTQIA mean, since you're asking questions you should answer some.

[ladjf]

32. I wouldn't be too sure about that. Religious cults have a way of hanging around. nt