A brief lesson on sodomy (from your friendly local atheist)

[TexasTowelie]

In light of our governor’s statements about closing Texas to refugees, I think a brief Bible lesson is in order.

Everyone knows the story of Sodom: God became so disgusted by the behavior of the residents of Sodom, he destroyed it. True (or as true as the story goes).

And the behavior he was punishing was homosexuality.

Not true.

The real biblical story of Sodom is this: Strangers came to Sodom and Lot, a man there, took them in — opened his doors to these foreigners in need. His male neighbors objected. They knocked on Lot’s door. “Give us the strangers so that we might know them,” they demanded. (That’s the “homosexuality” thread of the story — by “know them,” the neighbors meant know them carnally: to rape the strangers.) Lot refused, going so far as to offer his own virgin daughters in place of the strangers. Steadfastly he refused to betray the strangers. But the neighbors would have none of it and broke down the door.

Read more: http://www.dallasvoice.com/lesson-sodomy-from-friendly-local-atheist-10208741.html

[trotsky]

1. Still seems wrong to me to destroy an entire city full of men, women, and children...

simply because they weren't being hospitable.

[cleanhippie]

8. When God makes a point, he makes it a BIG point!

[Warren Stupidity]

2. And Lot, the one who suggested that the men of Sodom gang rape his daughters,

is the one good man in Sodom according to the big book of bizarre ethics. Later on he has sex with his daughters.

Only marginally related, Josephus, the main evidence for the alleged historicity of Jesus, also claims to have seen the salt pillar that was "Lot's wife".

[Warren Stupidity]

3. Oh and the big book of bizarre ethics clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination

for which the punishment is death. But probably only for men. Women can go at it as much as they want.

[Gothmog]

4. It was only recently that the Texas GOP removed reinstating the Texas sodomy act from party platform

The Texas GOP used to have a plank in platform calling for reinstating the Texas sodomy laws declared unconstitutional in Lawrence v. Texas

[nruthie]

5. And the moral of the story is:

It's fine to have sex with your daughters. Makes sense to me for sure.

[Yorktown]

6. god is a clown

Doesn't he have better to do than bother about who sleeps with whom and how?

god has far too much time on his/her/its hands

(if god has hands, which is an interesting question to ask a priest/imam/chaman/whatever)

[LostOne4Ever]

7. I think these two meme do a better lesson at teaching them a lesson

[Yorktown]

12. Except that 1936 European Jews did not turn violent on people mocking Yahweh

Neither did 1936 Jews favor stoning gays, adulterers, apostates, etc.

Comparisons only go so far.

[LostOne4Ever]

14. But the most important factors are still the same

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]They are still living human beings (men, women, and children) who are able to laugh, cry, bleed, and hurt.

They are still human beings whose very lives are being threatened by a group of inhuman right wing sadists.

It is our duty as fellow human beings with functioning hearts to help them. Their religious beliefs don't matter in this case at all.

And if anything, being shown compassion from Kafir like us might be the kick in the butt they need to see past those parts of their religion.[/font]

[Yorktown]

15. I hear you

I know. I asked myself that question: 50% of these refugees are just like you and me and anybody of good will. My problem is the other 50%. Their opinions won't change overnight.

What made the problem very difficult is the 30 years of relentless extremist propaganda by the KSA and Qatar which makes your statement "being shown compassion from Kafir like us might be the kick in the butt they need to see past those parts of their religion" a long term prospect.

To quote a deep metaphysical book on religion, Harry Potter, it's like sparing Mundungus Fletcher knowing the good deed might payback. Well, maybe.

But I can't help worry that for decades, a large % of these ex-refugees will still harbor horrible values. Just an example: a -rather famous- Muslim crackpot giving a speech in Belgrade to an Orthodox Christian audience. He gets a friendly guffaw when he mocks the decadent Euro-American West where man can marry man (around 5:00). And that's an Orthodox Christian audience. Guess the cheers if he gave that lecture to middle east Muslims..

[tkmorris]

17. 50% is such a delightfully arbitrary number

I wonder how you arrived at it.

[Yorktown]

18. Asked so often it should be a sticky: Pew poll

Over 50% Muslims in Muslim majority countries -weighted average- want to apply the Sharia

You know? death for gays, apostates, adulterers, blasphemers, etc.

[struggle4progress]

9. Those old Hebrew stories are short and punchy: they invite

us to inquire into what every word means -- and to ask what has been left out

A mob shows up at Lot's door, demanding he hand over his guests so the mob can have some "fun" with them. Lot's not my favorite fellow, but we should give him some credit here for his gutsy humanism. He's invited these strangers into his house; in fact, he's demanded they stay with him, so they won't have to sleep in the streets. While they're in his house, he'll treat them like family -- and he's not about to hand them to a mob that wants to entertain itself doing who-knows-what. This scene is like that of a small-town sheriff standing in the jail house door, refusing to hand the accused over to would-be lynchers. If you read carefully, you can almost hear the outraged sarcasm in Lot's voice as he asks his neighbors why they don't just take his daughters for their "fun" instead. Lot, of course, does not hand over his daughters. It's not quite clear what happens next, but his neighbors don't successfully rush the door: there's a brief spell when the neighbors act as if struck blind, and during this interlude the family escapes

... Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty ... Ezekiel 16

[cleanhippie]

10. So Lot offering his daughters was just sarcasm?

Are all the other horrific offerings to be found in the bible just sarcasm too?

[struggle4progress]

11. Not much inclined to rethink first impressions, eh?

[Warren Stupidity]

13. So a deep lesson on how to live a good life is contained in the story of Lot offering his daughters

up for gang rape? It is after that event that your god allegedly decides that Lot is the one good man. Please explain.

[struggle4progress]

19. This old collection of books, now called "the bible," comes from a culture

with a history of arguing about the meanings of what was written there

Genesis begins with a description of Light produced by the power of the word. The tale of Sodom begins with Abraham arguing against its destruction, as his visitors head away. It includes Lot arguing with the two strangers about whether they will spend the evening in his house and later about whether he can flee to the mountains. There seems to be something here about the importance of speech

[Goblinmonger]

20. So when Lot's daughters get him drunk and rape him,

was that done ironically, too?

Was that a metaphor?

Because all I get out of the stories involving Lot is that if that is our basis for moral decisions, that's fucked up. But certainly you have found ways to make it more appealing to you.

[struggle4progress]

21. I merely said these short punchy stories invite discussion

[Goblinmonger]

22. Well, you said that Lot was offering his daughters sarcastically.

Literally the first time I have ever heard that interpretation.

Just wondering how far you are willing to go to make the story of Lot seem palatable.

[struggle4progress]

23. Tone of voice and body language would surely matter in that context,

but the text gives us neither

Lot challenges the mob by treating the proposed assault on his guests as a sexual proposal: two of his four daughters are already married to men in Sodom, and any rape of the sisters-in-law of two villagers would have social consequences

But we are given only the angry reaction of the mob, who denounce Lot as an outsider and threaten to do worse hurt to him than they intended to do to the strangers. It is clear enough here that the crowd intends real harm to the strangers and that their rage turns against Lot when he stands in their way. It reads much like an account of a frustrated lynching

The text also indicates speech can be misunderstood: Lot's sons-in-law think he is joking when he warns them to flee

[Warren Stupidity]

24. You know gang rape my daughters in a jokey sort of

way. Wtf?

[edhopper]

16. This thread is disappointing

I thought I would learn how to do it right.