The Conservative Atheists

[rug]

Jamila Bey delivers the first address by a known atheist at the 2015 Conservative Political Action Conference.

July 28, 2015 at 9:00 am
By Matthew Estes

Coming out as an atheist in America presents difficulties regardless of one’s political beliefs. According to polls by Gallup in 2012 and Pew Research Center in 2014, presidential candidates face more opposition from voters if they are atheists than if they used marijuana, had an extramarital affair, or had never held office. According to another study by the Brookings Institution, almost four times as many Americans think atheists are changing this country for the worse than believe they are changing it for the better.

Speaking to the HPR under a pseudonym to protect her privacy, Emily, a politically active University of Missouri student, said that she identified as both a conservative and an atheist. “The first reaction is virtually always surprise, whether I’m telling a fellow atheist I’m a conservative or a fellow conservative I’m an atheist,” she explained. “I wasn’t raised to be particularly religious, and I never really considered myself a religious adherent anyway.”

While the idea of a conservative atheist might seem unusual at first, according to a 2012 Pew poll, Emily is not alone. Thirteen percent of atheists and agnostics self-identify as conservative—a number that indicates a growing group on the right that does not believe in a god. Yet many atheists say they don’t have an outlet within the conservative movement, and for politically active conservatives like Emily, the reactions to be expected from fellow atheists are halfhearted indifference or dazed confusion.

Emily’s challenge stems from the difficulty conservative atheists have fitting into each of the two component movements. Many conservatives assume that their peers are religious, while many atheists take fellow unbelievers to be politically liberal. Emily repudiates these assumptions about the overlap between political and religious beliefs, describing her conservatism and atheism as two forces that work together, informing her opinions and guiding her political involvement. “Atheism and conservatism are both about self-reliance, so they work well together,” she explained, adding that working for conservative causes does not conflict with her atheism, but rather reinforces the ideals of free thought and inquiry that ground her morality and prompt her political activism.

http://harvardpolitics.com/united-states/conservative-atheists/

[bluestateguy]

1. They do exist. I've met them before.

They tend to be:

1. Vitriolically anti-Muslim.

2. Big cheerleaders for the so-called War on Terror and their belief that the Western values are more welcoming of secularism than the Islamic world.

3. Not real big fans of social justice type of issues.

4. A lot of libertarian views, ranging from reasonable to loony.

5. They take science seriously, but they are wary of solutions to environmental problems that are not market oriented.

6. Usually pro-choice, but sometimes bordering on pro-abortion, from a sort of creepy eugenics perspective. One RW athiest in college I knew was, by his own admission, pro-abortion because that would mean more poor women would get abortions and his tax dollars would not have to support them on welfare. [his words, not mine, ok].

[rug]

2. Three of The Four Horsemen match most of that list.

[Peregrine]

76. That's Penn Gillette (nt)

x

[truebrit71]

3. How was your vacation?

Manage to keep yourself busy? I'll bet you were nice and "alert", yes?

[rug]

5. I see you still are engrossed in insincere meta.

Its absence was refreshing.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. failed.

On Fri Jul 31, 2015, 06:00 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

How was your vacation?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=208059

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Rug literally came off a five hide vacation tonight and truebrit feels the need to bait him. This makes DU suck.

Rug served his time off and should be given a chance without baiting him into another hide.

Notice truebrit is trying to bait him with alert. I know rug is a big boy and can handle it and I get you might think this is a lame alert but I think baiting him the very day he gets off his forced vacation sucks.

I know this will go against me but i wanted to make a point this behavior is what is making DU a less friendly place of late.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jul 31, 2015, 06:08 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There is nothing rude over the top disruptive or otherwise inappropriate about the post. Alerter should find some other hobby and leave people here alone.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[rug]

11. Not my alert. You're on my jury blacklist.

But I see you share his interest in insincere meta.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. that's not the way it works rug.

Think about it. Your jury blacklist prevents people you hate from serving on:

a) your alert on somebody else's post,

or

b) a post of yours that was alerted on.

[rug]

15. It should.

But, as I said, meta is your bag.

[Warren Stupidity]

99. why? So you can bias a jury in favor of your alert?

I understand why you would want to get more successful alerts, in your situation I would too, I suppose.

[rug]

100. I've seen more twisted alerts from you than anyone on this board.

If facts don't work, there's always dishonesty.

[beam me up scottie]

119. Speaking of dishonesty why are you accusing me of alerting on your post after I said I didn't?

[Warren Stupidity]

120. In your imagination I am quite the monster.

However you still haven't explained why your jury blacklist ought to apply to your alerts. You do understand that juried alerts are anonymous, right?

[rug]

125. I don't believe in monsters.

The reality of what I see is quite enough.

[Heddi]

14. That's now how jury blacklists work. Blacklist affects who sits on a jury for an alert of YOUR post

it has no affect on who serves on a jury for an alert that YOU send.

If I alert on one of your posts, someone on your jury blacklist wouldn't be called to that jury. The jury blacklist affects YOUR posts.

If you alert on one of my posts, someone on your jury blacklist would be able to be called to that jury (unless I have them on my blacklist too). YOUR jury blacklist has no affect on who serves for YOUR alert on another person's posts

[rug]

17. Warren was far more concise.

Too bad it doesn't show the alerter. Would save you lots of gossip.

[Heddi]

21. I wanted to explain it nicely

so a gish-gallop couldn't be pulled on my words.

Plus, this isn't a private message. There may be others who are unsure about the jury blacklist feature and I'm trying to help educate any of our new members, or those who were unfamiliar with the jury blacklist feature. Nothing wrong with that, is there?

Plus Plus Plus, there isn't some notification that informs me when someone else is replying to your post. When I clicked 'reply," there were no posts below yours. When I submitted my post, someone else had already posted. That's how it works. That's how it happens. Not just for me, but for you, too!

I know the message board is a new-fangled thing with quirks and all, but I'm pretty sure everyone will get used to it in good time.

[rug]

22. That explains the video.

[truebrit71]

23. Agreed. Then we could see some of your alerts while you were on vacation.

...

[rug]

25. Oh, were you thinking of me?

Do post the links.

[truebrit71]

28. Links to what? Your vacation alerts?

...

[Heddi]

29. Since I'm on an "Educate the Masses" kick tonight

should we remind everyone in the listening audience that when you send SOP alerts about a post being against the SOP of a group/forum, that the hosts can see who sent the alert? That SOP alerts *aren't* anonymous like alerts on posts?

[rug]

32. Now explain the difference between ToS alerts and CS alerts.

Now that's three of you in this very thread who are all about meta.

[Heddi]

34. TOS alerts aren't anonymous. Other alerts are

that's all I'm saying.

I can't agree that educating posters about the different features of DU that they may not know about (how jury blacklists work, which alerts are anonymous and which alerts aren't) as being meta. Unless discussing the features of the website you're openly stating you don't understand (jury blacklist for one) is meta, at which point, you kind of started it when you admitted you misunderstood the jury blacklist feature right here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218208052#post11
rug
11. Not my alert. You're on my jury blacklist.

[rug]

31. Oh, you weren't thinking of me?

[truebrit71]

40. Nope.

....

[Heddi]

18. Oh, poor alerter. Tried so hard.

[Heddi]

26. You weren't really absent though. You alerted on a post while you were gone

Hardly "absent"

[rug]

44. Yes it was an SoP alert to the kosts of a group.

After which the OP was edited.

Didn't take much time.

[Heddi]

52. So it kind of refutes your memories of a refreshing absence if you were alerting....

ab·sent
adjective
adjective: absent
ˈabsənt/
1.
not present in a place, at an occasion, or as part of something.
"most students were absent from school at least once"
synonyms: away, off, out, nonattending, truant; More
antonyms: present


I've always believed that the day is wasted if it ends without learning something new. Today in this thread alone people have learned about how the jury blacklist and TOS alerts work. I see that as a great thing!

[rug]

104. And you learned about conservative atheists.

Imagine that.

[beam me up scottie]

118. Well we already know who's conservative here.

Why do you support a homophobic, misogynistic organization?

[rug]

121. Do you support Sam Harris?

Then "we"'ll know.

[beam me up scottie]

122. I don't support Sam. Why do you support a misogynistic homophobic organization?

[rug]

124. I don't.

I'm glad you don't support "Sam".

[beam me up scottie]

126. You don't support the RCC?

Good to know.

[rug]

128. I don't support your imaginary bogeymen.

Do you really think your name-calling creates reality?

[beam me up scottie]

130. Your church's opposition to women's and lgbt people's human rights created the reality.

You just choose to ignore the facts because fantasy is much more comfortable.

[rug]

131. Actually, I prefer to deal in facts over internet polemics.

In this case, your facts are wrong and your polemics are one dimensional.

[beam me up scottie]

132. So why do you support an organization that treats women and lgbt people like second class citizens?

Stick to the facts please.

kthxbai

[rug]

133. Insert one fact into that question and you'll have an answer,

kthxbai

[beam me up scottie]

134. I have no idea why anyone would support the RCC and its policies. Frankly it boggles the mind.

Get it?

Frankly.

[AtheistCrusader]

140. Do you not support the RCC?

Perhaps that's the disconnect.

[rug]

141. I am a Catholic.

The disconnect you see is between the stereotype she's trapped in and the reality.

[AtheistCrusader]

143. The items I listed are not a stereotype.

The only reality of this is what the RCC itself promulgates.

Ok, some of the body of the church doesn't participate in or knowingly support it. Fine. The body of a snake can't bite you. But the head can. Same with the head of your church. It bites people. It marshals votes, lobbying dollars and follower support worldwide.

It is hurting people, worldwide. People who are LGBT and more. Women. People dying of horrible untreatable diseases in agony. People who want to control their own reproductive freedom. People who want kids and those who don't. It's hurting a LOt of people.

I suggest you cut the head off that snake yourself, if you can. Kind of important, don't you think?

[rug]

144. What items? You responded to my reply to someone else.

If you want a sense of the diversity of the RCC, as opposed to a monochromatic meme, here's but one example:

http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/8697693-74/gay-catholic-church#axzz3hlieosKi

[rug]

146. That's not a list.

If you're talking about the Courage group, check the history of Dignity.

Now "what the fuck is wrong with you" to pop off like that?

Are you incapable of discussion without personal bullshit?

[AtheistCrusader]

147. Try addressing BMUS's point without dismissing it as a stereotype.

Because that was the insulting hand wave to end all hand waves.

[rug]

148. Try typing anything without wrapping it in personal bullshit.

And the fact is, she - and you - have nothing but stereotypes when it comes to any religion or any religious topic. Any evidence to the contrary results in spittle, bluster and cursing from you.

[AtheistCrusader]

149. Nothing personal about it.

Your pope continues to double down on that 'discrimination against the child' shit. Ina. Catholic country, considering civil rights for same sex couples, that shit has consequences for real humans. Humans with a very real plight you dismiss as a stereotype about your precious church.

http://www.advocate.com/politics/religion/2014/04/11/pope-francis-kids-must-have-moms-and-dads

[rug]

150. I take it that when you typed "fuck you", you had in mind some abstract entity.

[truebrit71]

151. Amazing how you fluidly shift between his opinion of you and his opinion of your church...

...as if they are the same thing

[rug]

152. Amazing how you only see what you want to see.

See 148.

[beam me up scottie]

162. It's not a stereotype to point out the inherent misogyny in the catholic church.

No one is allowed to point out homophobic or misogynistic policies without being called a religious bigot.

The fact that you think the Pope and the RCC need to be defended against women and lgbt people shows you care more about them than their victims.

Otherwise you'd at least admit that they have a big problem when it comes to human rights.

[rug]

165. You're right. The more accurate word than stereotype is bigotry.

You claim the RCC is "inherently" misogynist. That is, that is it's very core.

In doing so, you are characterizing the entire institution (and presumably those Catholics who disagree with you, each of them) misogynist as well as homophobic.

There is no other word for that than bigotry.

And, as with most bigotries, your criticism fails to make distinctions between those aspects of an institution or any of its leaders (and presumably those Catholics who disagree with you, each of them) that are misogynistic and homophobic and those that are not.

And you do it with glee. In the end, you don't like any religion at all, even without misogyny or homophobia. Be honest.

You can't do that without being seen as an anti-religious and anti-Catholic bigot.

You're right. It's not a stereotype at all. It's far worse.

Thanks for the correction.

[beam me up scottie]

166. It's not religious bigotry to criticize a bigoted religious organization like the RCC.

Oh the humanity!

All those nasty women and lgbt people bashing the RCC, where will it end?

Your attempt to turn this into persecution of individual catholics is pathetic and entirely predictable.

Fail.

[rug]

171. No it isn't. Writing bigotry is.

[beam me up scottie]

174. It's not religious bigotry to criticize a bigoted religious organization like the RCC.

Glad we agree!

[rug]

176. Do you think it is "inherently" bigoted?

[beam me up scottie]

178. Of course it is.

[rug]

180. Then you're writing bigoted statements, of course.

[beam me up scottie]

183. It's not bigotry to criticize a bigoted religious organization like the RCC.

[rug]

184. It's bigotry to say it's inherently misogynist and homophobic.

It's bigotry to call it a hate group.

It's bigotry to say it is a criminal organization.

It's bigotry to say its members are complicit in atrocities.

But you've never said any of that on here, have you?

in-her-ent

adjective

1. existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute; inhering

You either are careless with your words or you're expressing bias against an entire group of people.

[beam me up scottie]

186. Bias against the church is bigotry? And their persecution of women is what?

Christian love?

Any woman who has ever been denied access to birth control or an abortion in this country has the Catholic Church to thank.

But keep insisting that the RCC is the real victim here.

It just proves what the others said upthread: you are less concerned about the people your church harms than you are about your church.

[Lordquinton]

189. Do you think the KKK is inherently bigoted?

Careful what you try to defend here Rug.

[rug]

196. Yes. That's its entitre premise. Do you think the RCC is the same as the KKK?

You've unwittingly found the difference.

Now use it instead of shuffling through talking points.

[beam me up scottie]

198. Both believe some humans are inferior to others.

[rug]

199. And there it is. Your fundamental ignorance of that which you love to attack.

Tell me, can you answer even one question directly?

Do you think the KKK and the RCC are equivalent?

I'm only asking once.

[beam me up scottie]

202. Their efforts to restrict my human rights doesn't make them humanitarians.

You're just going to have to accept my opinion of your church and move on.

Criticism of an inherently bigoted religious institution is not bigotry.

[Lordquinton]

154. Amazing. You are less concerned about the people your church harms

Than you are about catholics, who know full what their association with the organization means, maybe getting blowback from what their leader supports.

[rug]

155. I am not at all concerned about people in here who exalt meta over discssion,

Last edited Mon Aug 3, 2015, 06:32 PM - Edit history (1)

caricature over description.

Your post is one on the more explicitly anti-Catholic - both people and institution - in this group.

[Lordquinton]

156. You are also not at all concerned about your church's victims

Your words speak for themselves.

As for the rest of your post? I think you might have gotten your threads crossed, it's so out of context it makes no sense.

[rug]

157. Says who? You?

Do you think your reflexive Catholic bashing does anything for them?

[Lordquinton]

158. Your own words betray you

You haven't even refuted it, just deflection.

Nothing reflexive about it, your leader literally travels the world bashing women and gays.

Your reflexive apologetics on the other hand speaks volumes more than you obviously intended.

[rug]

159. Post them. Let's see exactly what kind of crap you're peddling.

Come on Quinton, no vagaries, none of your predigested talking points, none of your DUmail gossip. Just my own words.

Let's go.

[Lordquinton]

160. Just read up thread

And the rest you should take to heart, you can't even answer a simple yes/no question.

[rug]

161. Already read. Now back up the bullshit you posted.

You said, "You are also not at all concerned about your church's victims. Your words speak for themselves."

Now prove it. With my own words. Not whatever twisted spin you try to put on them.

Your weaseling isn't doing a thing to back that claim.

Go ahead Quinton.

[Lordquinton]

188. When confronted with your church's wrong doings, you ignore it

and instead claim that the few good Catholics are being smeared and slandered. The MRA-esque "Not all Christians" lines are just showing that you care far more about Catholics (members of an oppressive organization, even if they are the "nice ones&quot than the people who are being oppressed world-wide by your church.

And you still haven't refuted it.

If you still have trouble understanding this point, I can't help you.

[beam me up scottie]

163. Says me.

It's not "bashing" to call bigotry what it is.

Your church is not sacred to me, rug and you don't get to characterize criticism of it as " Catholic bashing" because you can't deal with it.

[rug]

164. Let's be very precise here scottie. Are you calling me a bigot?

The post you interjected yourself into was a reply to this:

You are also not at all concerned about your church's victims

Your words speak for themselves.

Now answer the question: Are you calling me a bigot?

[beam me up scottie]

167. Why would you think people are calling you a bigot?

[rug]

168. The question is why you are suggesting it.

Stop hiding behind other people.

[beam me up scottie]

169. Why are you lying about my post?

[rug]

170. 163. I'm not lying.

[beam me up scottie]

172. Then post proof of your claim that I suggested you're a bigot.

[rug]

173. Why don't you just answer the question instead of evading?

Are you calling me a bigot?

Your post speaks for itself.

[beam me up scottie]

175. Post proof of your claim that I suggested you're a bigot.

[rug]

177. 163. Now answer the question.

You have five evasions. You've used three.

[beam me up scottie]

179. Point it out, post proof that I suggested you're a bigot.

[rug]

181. That's number 4.

You have one more shot and honestly answering instead of evading.

Here, I'll make it easier for you.

Do you think I am or am not a bigot?

[beam me up scottie]

182. You're good with numbers but not with proving your claims. Spell it out in English.

Post proof that I suggested you're a bigot.

[rug]

185. That's evasion number five.

I don't mind pursuing a point but I don't pursue the pointless.

[beam me up scottie]

187. C'mon, pretend you're a lawyer and you need to make your case in court.

Where's the proof, rug?

[rug]

192. If this were a courtroom, and not an anonymos forum, you'd wither.

Nowhere to hide, run or evade.

[beam me up scottie]

195. Really? I'd "wither"? I'm no more intimidated by bullies in real life than I am on DU, rug.

You failed to prove your claim, case dismissed.

[rug]

197. Wither, as in melt, fold, collapse.

All that this sad exchange has demonstrated is that evasion is your default mode.

Surprise me and answer the question.

[beam me up scottie]

200. You first. You never proved I suggested you were a bigot.

If you could just repost the exact words that'd be great.

[rug]

201. "You first." I left grammar school a long time ago.

[beam me up scottie]

203. So you can't prove your claim. Glad we cleared that up.

[Lordquinton]

191. Are you pro choice?

Are you pro-marriage equality?

You get five chances, as per your rules. No deflections, yes/no.

Can you do it?

[rug]

193. Yes and yes.

It's really a stupid question if you understand the First Amendment.

That's two answers. Now see if you can get scottie to answer one.

[Lordquinton]

190. You're calling everyone who disagrees with you a bigot here

Slow down tex, you're friend just went on another vacation for letting his pistol fly, maybe you should take a hint and holster for a while.

[rug]

194. You really don't grasp the irony of that, do you?

Tex.

[AtheistCrusader]

74. Like your op isn't meta.

Never mind the article itself marvels that any exist at all and can be found in the wild.

[stone space]

77. The OP isn't meta.

Like your op isn't meta.

I'm guessing that you didn't even bother to read it.

[skepticscott]

78. Did you pop in

just to SHOOT that down?

[stone space]

79. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in Gods of Metal. They are False Gods.

Did you pop in just to SHOOT that down?

No shooting here.

[skepticscott]

80. Were you using a God of metal

When you came in with guns blazing to give that other poster both barrels?

[stone space]

81. Your God is a False God.

Were you using a God of metal

When you came in with guns blazing to give that other poster both barrels?

Don't accuse me of being a part of your filthy Death Cult.

I'm an atheist.

Keep your religion to yourself, and don't try to implicate me in your religious beliefs.

[skepticscott]

82. Which religion are you talking about?

Because I don't have one. Nor do I have a FILTHY DEATH CULT. You on the other hand seem to have an itchy trigger finger when it comes to responding to posts, and a desperate need to empty your magazine every time you post. Sometimes it's better to leave the safety on, dude.

[stone space]

83. I am not a part of your Death Cult. This is a lie.

You on the other hand seem to have an itchy trigger finger when it comes to responding to posts, and a desperate need to empty your magazine every time you post.

I'm an atheist, and I plan to remain an atheist.

I will not submit to your False Gods.

[skepticscott]

84. It's a lie to say

that I belong to a DEATH CULT. I don't own a gun, don't use a gun and don't advocate for guns.

So tell me again what my DEATH CULT is, dude. Do you regard Gun Metaphor Users of America as a DEATH CULT?

[AtheistCrusader]

87. Did you just pop a circuit breaker or something?

You seem to be caught in a loop.

[skepticscott]

94. It seems like his weapon

is stuck on full auto.

[stone space]

95. THIS IS A VICIOUS LIE!

It seems like his weapon is stuck on full auto.

It should be hidden.

I will not be forced into your Religion.

[skepticscott]

96. Dude, chill out...you know I have no religion

And no one is forcing you into anything, last time I checked. You're the one whose obsession with guns smacks of religious fervor, not me. You're the one who keeps responding to posts that weren't even directed at you to object to things that weren't even being said or done.

Like I said, put it back in the holster and cool off.

[stone space]

97. Again, please stop lying about me.

Like I said, put it back in the holster and cool off.

I am an atheist, not a Gun Worshiper.

[skepticscott]

98. I deeply resent your accusation of "lying"

I have said nothing about you that is false, except perhaps in your frighteningly overactive imagination.

I would be well within my rights to have you hidden for making such a vile and baseless accusation, but I can see that you're overwrought, so I will hold my fire for now.

[rug]

107. Actually it wouldn't.

The best you could do is try to persuade a jury. Without lying in the alert, of course.

[rug]

108. scottie doesn't consider you the right kind od atheist.

[AtheistCrusader]

85. Oh I read it.

[stone space]

86. Then you know that it is not meta.

Oh I read it.

[AtheistCrusader]

88. Got any waterfront property on the moon for sale?

[stone space]

89. I don't understand your question.

Got any waterfront property on the moon for sale?

I've never been to the moon.

Have you?

[AtheistCrusader]

90. That's why you don't think the op is meta.

[stone space]

91. Because I've never been to the moon?

That's why you don't think the op is meta.

You aren't making much sense here.

[AtheistCrusader]

92. Yes. Yes that is exactly it.

[rug]

103. What is meta about American Atheists, Inc. reaching out to CPAC?

[AtheistCrusader]

112. You're cute.

[rug]

114. Actually, I'm not. Neither are atheist organizations at CPAC.

[AtheistCrusader]

115. Neither are conservative catholic groups attacking LGBT groups at CPAC

http://www.rawstory.com/2014/03/catholic-cpac-group-complains-about-goproud-beavers-being-invited-back/

[rug]

123. No, they're not.

There's nothing cute about any of it, including stupid sniping while this is going on.

[AtheistCrusader]

135. Well, who thought it was a good idea to fire the fist shot?

[rug]

138. If you're hearing "shots" where there aren't any, it's time to get off the range.

[AtheistCrusader]

139. Uh huh.

[Curmudgeoness]

4. Just like the union members who vote Republican,

they are voting against their own good. I don't see how they can find a candidate that doesn't bother them with all the evangelical bullshit spewed by all of them.

[rug]

6. No. Union members have a material basis to vote against republicans.

Atheism is simply nonbelief in a god(s). Politics are essentially irrelevant to that position.

The working class is a much different story.

[tkmorris]

7. Politics are irrelevant to that position?

In what country? Not here in the good ole star spangled by Gawd US of A they aint.

[rug]

8. Correct. What does atheism per se say about politics? Nothing.

[skepticscott]

63. Politics and politicians have a lot to say

about atheism and atheists. But hey, one way thinking is lots easier.

[rug]

64. Yeah, but your statement is ass backwards to what I wrote.

[AlbertCat]

72. What does atheism per se say about politics? Nothing.

And yet.... you post this drivel article....



It's religious and other people I suppose (tho' I'm not sure who..."spiritual" people? Whatever...) who think being an atheist makes one somehow unfit to be in government that makes it political. It ain't atheists.

[rug]

101. This "drivel" illustrates the point.

You are free, of course, to believe atheism represents all that is good and progressive in the world.

[AlbertCat]

105. This "drivel" illustrates the point.

by perpetuating it.


And as usual I never said anything remotely like "atheism represents all that is good and progressive in the world." YOU made that up. More drivel.

[rug]

106. Thank you for repeating it.

Repetition is a useful method of learning.

I'm glad you agree that atheism does not represent all that is good and progressive in the world.

[AlbertCat]

110. I'm glad you agree that atheism does not represent all that is good and progressive in the world.

Well, you made up the notion that it did.

[AtheistCrusader]

75. Not exactly. It certainly has a thing to say about the Christian dominionism of the dominant

Evangelicals of the GOP.

Also has a thing or two to say about the regressive, right wing anti-woman, homophobic RCC which makes up a sizeable second place segment of the religious component of the GOP.

Interesting you didn't think of that.

[rug]

102. It says not a thing about that.

After concluding a god or gods do not exist, it remains mute.

Unsurprising you don't realize that.

[Curmudgeoness]

136. I don't know how you can really think that.

It looks like you are just trying to be contrary. Either that, or you really don't understand atheists as much as you pretend you do.

There are a number of reasons for atheists to vote against Republicans. Atheists do not want God thrown in their faces in the political arena, or infringing in our lives. The more religion that is intertwined in politics, the more we have to be concerned. We do not want to have prayer put back into the schools. We do not believe that we should be subjected to religious law. You may not think that religion could be forced on people, but if you were to start to think like an atheist, you would see the dangers to our society by religion and religious zealots. All you have to do is look at places where ISIS or the Taliban are ruling to see what is possible.

But how can I expect one of the believers who doesn't have anything to worry about to understand the way that I see it.

[rug]

137. I don't know how you can misunderstand the First Amendment like that.

Your entire second paragraph states the reasons for believers as well to keep religion out of government and government out of religion.

The Rev. Barry Lynn does not share your difficulty.

https://www.au.org/

In any event, regardless of what individual atheists may want, or not want, politically there is nothing about atheism itself that dictates that course.

I'll simply disregard your personal snark at the end. It's getting stale.

[beam me up scottie]

9. He's citing the Brookings Institution study that claims atheists and muslims aren't trustworthy?

And highlighting one conservative atheist as if this proves Americans are right?

What's next on the agenda, a hit piece about a muslim conservative?



I guess the religious right has been telling us the truth all along.

Atheists and muslims ARE the biggest threat to America since liberals/feminists/uppity black folks.

DAKWINZ!

FOUR HORSEMEN!!1!

BOOGA BOOGA!!!

[rug]

12. Do you not believe in the existence of conservative atheists?

Speaking of agendas . . . .

[beam me up scottie]

16. I believe that the religious right is a bigger threat to women, lgbt people and other minorities

than all the atheist boogiemen in your overactive imagination combined, rug.

But keep parroting the religious bigots and trying to convince us that fairy tales are true.

We're not stupid, we know who the real enemy is and it's not atheists.

[rug]

19. I don't believe in athesist bogeymen. Do you believe that?

And as for far bigger threats, you won't even notice the tanks coming while you're hectoring some nuns about their rosary beads.

The capitalists and the governments they employ will be laughing.

[beam me up scottie]

27. Sure, it's the FOUR HORSEMEN!!1! who are trying to force me to give birth, not the RCC.

Amirite?

And those goddamned atheists, always trying to pass legislation restricting the rights of lgbt people.

Get a grip, we're not the ones spending millions of dollars and making it our mission to keep women and teh gays in their place as second class citizens.

That's your team, rug.

GO POPE FRANKIE!



But keep digging, this is so entertaining.

[rug]

30. I wasn't aware anyone was trying to force you to give birth.

You should tell someone.

As to the rest of your post. "Get a grip" was good advice. You should take it.

BTW, "entertaining" is not a word I use to describe reproductive rights.

[beam me up scottie]

33. Really? So I'm just imagining the repeated attempts to ban abortions and birth control?

What's entertaining is watching someone who supports a misogynistic institution like the Catholic Church lecture a woman about who and who is not a threat to her rights.

Why do you support the homophobic, misogynistic RCC, rug?

Do our rights mean so little to you?

[rug]

36. Since you're slipping rapidnly into jargon and talking points, I'll throw you a rope.

Since reproductive rights is not all about you, I'll try to straighten out this subthread.

Be very clear: are you saying the RCC is part of the religious right?

[beam me up scottie]

39. Yes, the RCC and those who support its misogynistic policies are part of the religious right.

Why do you support them, rug?

[rug]

42. That statement indicates a fundamental ignorance of American politics and American religion.

I do not support "them" (whoever they are) but I am Catholic because I know what it is, which is not the ignorant stereotype you're attached to.

[beam me up scottie]

43. Why do you support a fundamentally misogynistic, homophobic institution?

I'm a liberal atheist, I would never support an organization that wants to deny human rights to women and lgbt people, financially or otherwise.

And I certainly wouldn't try to defend them from the criticism of their victims.

[rug]

47. Repeating it will not bring it to life.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

46. If reproductive rights aren't all about BMUS (a woman), then who are they about

Really, who are they about? And why would you, as a male, have any fucking say in it?

And I'll agree with BMUS: if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and shits like a duck, it's probably a duck. The positions of the RCC aren't all that enlightened compared to other, more mature, worldviews, and the RCC has more in common with the religious right than they do with progressive values.

[rug]

48. You added the parentheses.

To say that reproductive rights are not a fundamental social issue effecting everyone in society is shallow grandstanding.

And I'll agree with you. if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and shits like a duck, it's probably a duck. Especially when it's quacking ignorant anti-Catholic horsehit.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

50. And what I'm saying is the the parentheses are necessary

As a male, you don't have any say in the matter, even if your church believes otherwise. Or are you about 3 minutes from spouting MRA talking points?

[beam me up scottie]

51. So you're defending a misogynistic organization from a woman who feels threatened by them?

Good to know who's really ignorant.

[rug]

111. Sorry about your alert. bmus.

24 hours pass quickly.

[beam me up scottie]

117. Aw. Someone's still upset about being caught lurking and alerting in a protected group.

He had a sadz then and not just when it was shot down in flames, now he can't pretend he was enjoying his vacation.

Sorry, rug, hate to ruin your little celebration but I don't alert on religious bigotry or bullying. Not here or anywhere else on DU.

I want everyone to see who cares about our rights and who supports the misogynists who are actively trying to take them away.

But keep accusing me of something I didn't do, it just proves you haven't learned a thing while you were ... away.



Oh, and why do you support a misogynistic, homophobic institution?

[rug]

127. No one gets "caught" in a SoP alert. It is sent directly to the hosts.

And in this instance resulted in the post bashing another safe have group being edited.

And I really see no evidence to believe a anything you say about your alerts. Pesky evidence again.

[Ellipsis]

62. who in thier right mind woud alert this post?

[rug]

65. The answer is contained in the question.

If you have results, post them.

They are so earnestly striving for a fifth hide.

[Ellipsis]

66. ,

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Telling a female DUer that "reproductive rights" aren't about her is extremely tasteless. This poster has shown ambivalent conservative tendencies in regards to reproductive rights in the past, so please send her/him a message and hide this post.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jul 31, 2015, 09:16 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I forgot about Rug. I miss his posts.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The point of alerting is for TOS violations, not to "send a message."
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[rug]

109. Thanks for posting it.

[beam me up scottie]

67. Not me, I prefer to know who my allies are.

This forum is very enlightening.

[Humanist_Activist]

20. Not sure why this would be surprising, there are even pro-life Atheists...

granted, their arguments for a lot of issues have the same coherence as you would expect from any conservative, they are just slightly less likely to argue from scripture, and slightly more likely to argue from tradition instead.

[rug]

24. I'm not surprised at all.

What is surprising is that in this Group there are people who are surprised, if not offended, at the thought.

[Humanist_Activist]

35. The issue is that being an atheist conservative seems like a misnomer in the United States...

the Republican party has jumped into bed with the Christian Right, including the hierarchies of several churches, and is, if you were to attend meetings and such, explicitly Christian to the exclusion of other religions, outside of some noises towards Judaism. Atheists aren't welcome, and are in the same boat as Log Cabin Republicans in a lot of ways.

Now, Atheist libertarians make a little bit more sense, and for practical or political reasons may affiliate with the Republican or Democratic party, or remain independent, whatever they are comfortable with. Granted, economically, they are off the wall nuts, but so are all right-libertarians.

You are more likely to find atheist conservatives(within political context), in European countries that are far more secular. It seems the large majority of them in the United States are rather to the left of the political spectrum.

[rug]

37. That's true. There's a prominent British Tory who is qite open about his atheism.

[Humanist_Activist]

41. Granted things are skewed, the Tories are, in a lot of ways, to the left of the Democrats...

in the U.S.

If we were a country of any sense, the Democrats would be much further to the left, and the Republicans would be sane.

[NeoGreen]

38. Hypothetical...

...maybe it is not the message...

[EvolveOrConvolve]

49. Perhaps the offense is at you rather than the content

Since your posts in this group tend to be almost entirely of an anti-atheist tilt.

[rug]

53. Oh, please.

Are you offended? Shall I post a meme about offense?

As to your last sentence, you really should start reading my posts instead of gossiping on DUMail before you post such crap

[EvolveOrConvolve]

55. Sure, post a meme about offense

It would fit well with the tenor of your other posts in the Religion group.

[rug]

56. I'll go find one of the oines in A/A.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

58. You betcha, champ

[rug]

60. Here you go. barely a month old.

[Goblinmonger]

116. Yeah, that's what people are offended at.

You play someone who doesn't understand things very poorly.

[zazen]

45. isn't this just more overt Ayn Rand-ianism? n/t

[MisterP]

54. there's always been Randroids and "please invade my homeland" "ex-Muslims"

but I don't think they can ride any party turnover into an independent position of power

of course it's always a mistake to say they can never ever be together--atheism and religion are dimensions to life, not metaphorical countries you either are or aren't a "citizen" of

[Heddi]

57. Oh, I forgot to welcome you back

the last 90 days were...unlike any the religion forum has had. Glad to see you quickly getting back into the swing of things by posting inflammatory anti-atheist drivel that relies on right-wing, conservative, tea-party, or libertarian authors, polls, or data to prove an incorrect point.

WE MISSED YOU!!!

[rug]

59. Sorry to rin your party.

[Heddi]

61. Oh my party is hardly ruined

it's just getting started. I just broke out the liquor---I have rum (clear), vodka, and wine...from a box. Can I make you a mojito? I grew the mint myself!

a few weeks ago I made a watermelon mojito. It was REALLY good. Want one? Watermelon is frozen but it tastes good all the same

[beam me up scottie]

68. I really want a gin and tonic but I'm out of limes.

Can I haz a citrus fruit?

[Heddi]

69. We just use the bottled lime juice

I have been known to use kool-aid as a mixer

[beam me up scottie]

70. I use bottled to make key lime pie.

I like pie.

[mr blur]

93. Is Lent over already, then? Seems to get shorter every year. (nt)

[AlbertCat]

71. Huh

Seem like conservatives everywhere.

Too much TV: "Speaking to the HPR under a pseudonym to protect her privacy, Emily, a politically active University of Missouri student, said that she identified as both a conservative and an atheist." Ooooooo.... I guess all this "names were changed" was to protect "Emily" a college student in danger, I presume, from other conservatives....religious ones.

"While the idea of a conservative atheist might seem unusual at first," .... it in fact doesn't. Just because conservative religious people make more noise, it doesn't mean that an atheist can't be as ridiculous.

" the reactions to be expected from fellow atheists are halfhearted indifference or dazed confusion." To be expected...by whom? Oh yeah.... conservative atheists.

"Emily’s challenge stems from...." a bunch of stuff she and the author made up.

I'm sure there are a significant number of atheists who don't see being conservative as having anything to do with believing a god exists, all stereotypes to the contrary. The real problem is: "Coming out as an atheist in America presents difficulties regardless of one’s political beliefs."

Pretty fluffy piece.

[Lordquinton]

73. Conservative atheists are much like liberal Catholics

The minority.

[rug]

129. Conservative atheists have more in common with political conservatives than with liberal Catholics.

By definition.

[Lordquinton]

142. Ok, completely unrelated to what I said

by definition.

[whatthehey]

153. They exist. 26% even of nonreligious. It's just that believers are worse by at least 50%

and highly religious about twice as bad.



That 26% is a rather stretched number for atheists. As atheists are constantly reminded in other contexts, "not religious" does not equal "atheist"

This commentary states 14% for atheists. Far lower than for Christians in any context or measure, obviously

http://thehumanist.com/commentary/wait-youre-an-atheist-and-a-conservative

[Binkie The Clown]

204. One of my favorite fantasies...

When conservatives die, they are shocked when they come face to face with god and find out she's a liberal.