When Will the Catholic Church Stop Firing Gays?

[cbayer]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/10/when-will-the-catholic-church-stop-firing-gays.html

UNJUST
07.10.151:43 PM ET
Ben Brenkert



Philadelphia teacher Margie Winters was fired for being a married lesbian. Far from becoming more open, the Catholic Church is doubling down on its homophobia.

In a sense Nell Stetser, the principal of Waldron Mercy Academy, a Roman Catholic elementary school in Philadelphia, did her job.

She fired Margie Winters for not following the official Church teaching on same-sex love and same-sex sexual relationships.

Stetser faithfully followed the teachings of the Church as outlined in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

It’s not her fault that she had to do her job. Winters is a married lesbian: she is the person not living a “rightly ordered Catholic lifestyle.” She’s the most recent LGBTQ person (sic scapegoat) to be fired by a Roman Catholic institution.

more at link

[Angry Dragon]

1. They just need to find a new god to follow

[skepticscott]

2. As soon as people

stop gushing over how wonderful the pope is and how open and accepting he's making the church. As soon as people stop enabling and defending the continued, rabid anti-gay bigotry of the church by spouting apologist crap like "baby steps" and "slow progress" or "I'm cautiously optimistic".

Well, OK...probably not even then. But that would be a damn good start for a lot of people on this site, including those who are reading this but can't respond. If there weren't millions and millions of people defending and supporting one of the most bigoted organizations in the world with their words and their generous donations, we could toss their bigotry into the dustbin of history, where it belongs.

[tymorial]

3. Actually she didn't faithfully follow the Cathechism.

If she had she should have been celibate. I of course do not agree with it which is why I haven't been a practicing catholic for 12 years. Single people and homosexuals who engage in any sexual activity are fornicating according to the church. Most people do not get fired by the Catholic Church for violating their contract unless they announce it or speak against it publically. I have known many homosexual teachers who have taught in catholic schools for decades. They chose to keep quiet to keep their job. I asked her once why she did this. She has been with her partner for 40 years. She told me that she didn't agree with the Church (obviously) but she respected the rules. It was her decision and I respect her for that. I wish things were different and I wish she would be able to get married. Perhaps they will when she retires in a couple of years. I hope that someday the Catholic Church moves beyond this and becomes more accepting of homosexuals and same sex marriage.

[cbayer]

4. Do you know her personally?

Or are you talking about someone else?

I think the church winks and nods at most of the people who don't follow their archaic rules, but the more people who refuse to remain silent, the greater the likelihood that the church may eventually change.

[tymorial]

5. I just reread the article

I think I was confused. I thought they were stating that the woman fired was following the catechism and therefore should not have been fired. Now I realize it was the principal. My error.

As for your comment about the archaic rules and the church turning a blind eye. It really depends. Some priests are ever vigilant and endeavor to enforce the "rules." Some let it slide. When it comes to lay workers, lay ministers and teachers it is a completely different situation. When you are employed by the Church you must sign a contract which basically states that publically you are to represent the church's teachings on matters of morality and spirituality. If you break those rules, you will definitely be fired. I've seen it happen before. The woman in the story who was fired certainly knew what was going to happen when she got married. She chose love over her job. I think that is fantastic. In my opinion her marriage is both a celebration of love and a protest. I agree with you that the church must change its stance on many topics. At the same time I will be honest, I'm torn. I believe the Church has a right to its beliefs. I respect that which is why I stopped practicing 12 years ago. I am bisexual and divorced. The sacraments are not extended to me because I conscious of my sin. I know some divorced people who continue to receive communion (the whole point of going to church) but I chose not to do so out of respect for the religion. I'm not going to get an annulment and pretend my first marriage didn't exist. I'm not going to deny who I am but at the same time I can respect their beliefs. I hope someday (and soon) the catechism changes. Until then I will wait.

[cbayer]

6. Agree that there is a great deal of diversity in how

different priests, parishes and parishioners deal with things. Statistics show that the vast majority of catholics break some of the rules (birth control, for example). Clearly there is a huge blind eye there.

The pedophilia scandal is an extreme example of how flagrantly the hierarchy can look the other way.

OTOH, I agree that things change when you get into issues of employment and contracts and I also cheer this woman for the stand that she took.

You say "The Church has a right to its beliefs". Certainly that is true, but does it not also have an obligation to it's members? Though slow to do so, the RCC has made significant changes in the past and I believe will continue to make those changes, even if it's only in response to the majority of congregants simply no longer following the rule.

I understand and respect your personal choices regarding the church and I hope for you that the change you wait for occurs in your lifetime.

I have a question, though. Unless I am misreading this, it seems that you see the RCC as your only alternative. Why is that and what prevents you from joining another christian denomination where you would be embraced for who you are?

[tymorial]

7. Catholicism was a big part of who I am today

It is as much a cultural identity as it is a religion. I grew up in a very close knit French Catholic family. To this day I still see my aunts, uncles and cousins all the time. Going to mass on Sunday morning was a family affair. At one point I came very close to entering the seminary. I came to the decision that accepting holy orders was not the path for me so I went in a different direction.

Despite the problems and scandals, I still care about the Catholic Church. I love the Mass. Hell I love the Latin Mass. I had the chance to sing in a choir during a high mass. It was a great experience for me. I've attended protestant churches and services but I don't feel a connection. There is a high Anglican church in Boston that I liked but getting there on Sunday's isn't realistic due to my job. If there was a high Anglican church near me I would attend but there isn't. Also, some of the parishes that have broken away from the Episcopal Church did so specifically due to gay marriage.

I like the ceremonial aspects and the rubrics. I just feel more at home there.

[cbayer]

8. I truly understand that cultural identity aspect.

I also grew up in the church, but have no affiliation at this time. During my childhood, the community that it provided was very important to me. Fortunately the denomination was very progressive/liberal and I have not faced the same kind of issues that you have.

I have friends who have similar histories to yours. Some have made the switch to the Episcopal church, other have stayed with their local parishes and others have disaffiliated themselves.

Again, I hope the church changes in a way that you feel welcome to return. In the meantime, I am glad that you are able to maintain your cultural connections.

[AtheistCrusader]

9. Yeah, because THATS the lesson in the OP.