What came first among the human tribes? Group social mores or religious practices. Or both?

[pinto]

I suggest that both, if seen as separate entities, evolved with one effecting the other. And visa versa. And it probably continues, imo.

Very open ended query. But our forum's thoughts?

[safeinOhio]

1. My guess is that

different environments required different strategies to adapt and survive.

Cultural Anthropology minor here.

[LuvNewcastle]

2. I think the group social mores probably

came first. Some of them, like the incest taboo, were needed for group survival. I agree with the people who think that psycho-active plants played a big role in the beginning and continuation of religion. Natural processes like fermentation gave products that also had an effect on the mind. The real question, imo, is when did social mores become combined with religion?

[msongs]

3. religion is a method for one group to control everyone else. it's a power

thing using fear and punishment: if you are a non-believer, you will go to hell when you die but first we punish you on earth

[Nay]

4. A book about this very subject is called Good Natured by Frans de Waal. In the

book, he describes many observations he has made of animal interactions and concludes that being nice is a social development; many animals that have learned to be nice don't have the IQ to believe in gods, so social mores seem to have been developed first.


World famous for his brilliant descriptions of Machiavellian power plays among chimpanzees—the nastier side of animal life—Frans de Waal here contends that animals have a nice side as well. Making his case through vivid anecdotes drawn from his work with apes and monkeys and holstered by the intriguing, voluminous data from his and others’ ongoing research, de Waal shows us that many of the building blocks of morality are natural: they can he observed in other animals. Through his eyes, we see how not just primates but all kinds of animals, from marine mammals to dogs, respond to social rules, help each other, share food, resolve conflict to mutual satisfaction, even develop a crude sense of justice and fairness.

[Humanist_Activist]

5. Group social mores came first, generally speaking, they don't require the amount of...

abstract thought and creativity that religious belief and/or ritual require.

I strongly down that packs of wolves have a religion, but they do have social mores. Similarly, our basic social cues and rules have been relatively stable since before our species walked the Earth.

[pinto]

6. Appreciate the thoughtful input. Had to step away for a bit, but will be in and out tonight.

Later.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. You're going to have to unlatch religion and morality.

[trotsky]

8. Since other animals display group social mores, but have no religious practices...

the answer would seem to be obvious.

[skepticscott]

9. Exactly, including our closest relatives

Not sure why this is even a question worthy of asking.

[trotsky]

10. It's all part of a strange agenda, IMHO.

Arising from the misguided belief that somehow, any criticism of religion and its role in politics is scaring people away from the progressive agenda, and interfering with the building of coalitions. No evidence has ever been presented that this is actually happening or has ever happened, but that's never stopped the people pushing the meme. (And using it to brand fellow DUers as "vermin.&quot

So in that context, this OP is yet another attempt to insist that because religion is special and important in human development (social, moral), people need to stop criticizing it and simply praise its wonderfulness while ignoring its horrible ugly side.

[mr blur]

11. You are absolutely correct.

I would add that, once social mores are established within a group or community, along come the con-men to explain to everyone else that they know things that we don't about why things are as they are. Power! Control! Wealth!