Christians ask the wrong question

[DavidDvorkin]

They should be asking themselves why good atheists exist.

http://eyeblister.blogspot.com/2015/07/christians-ask-wrong-question.html

[stone space]

1. I guess that I don't see how the existence of good atheists should be surprising to Christians.

Most atheists aren't all that surprised by the existence of good Christians.

[DavidDvorkin]

2. We atheists aren't surprised by the existence of good people

both religious and not because we know that good behavior doesn't have anything to do with religion.

Read the blog post.

[stone space]

3. Then why should Christians be surprised by the existence of good atheists?

We atheists aren't surprised by the existence of good people

I read the blog post, but it didn't answer my question.

It seems to me that Christians are right when they are not surprised by the existence of good atheists.

I can think of no good arguments for urging them to reconsider their lack of surprise.

Perhaps it is those Christians who are surprised at the existence of good atheists who should reevaluate their level of surprise, instead?

[AlbertCat]

5. Then why should Christians be surprised by the existence of good atheists?

There aren't any in the Bible....



But then most "good Christians" ignore 2/3rds of that book anyway.

[Act_of_Reparation]

7. Hey, you're good with numbers, right?

Why don't you go back to that article and count how many times the author used the word "surprise"? You just might find your question has been answered after all.

[safeinOhio]

4. All they have to do is look it up

hu·man·ism
ˈ h)yo͞oməˌnizəm/Submit
noun
an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems.

Of course not all Humanist are atheist, or atheist, humanist.

[cbayer]

8. I know this comes up from time to time, but I've never seen

anyone seriously ask this question here.


Some people are good and some people are not and whether they are religious of not seems to have no bearing on it either way.

[Igel]

9. For pity's sake ...

Sometimes I feel like I'm at a conference on Chinese literature at which people are discussing the details of word choice and character development, but not a person in the room knows a word of Chinese nor has ever asked a Mandarin speaker for his/her evaluation of the works in question.

Yet they opine at length with great authority on the role of falafels and their pork content in the representation of Lenin's neoliberal approach to the situation in the Donbas as reflected in the works of some 17th century author. You just shake your head and head for the nearest full bottle of whiskey.

Romans 2

12-13 All who have sinned without knowledge of the Law will die without reference to the Law; and all who have sinned knowing the Law shall be judged according to the Law. It is not familiarity with the Law that justifies a man in the sight of God, but obedience to it.

14-15 When the Gentiles, who have no knowledge of the Law, act in accordance with it by the light of nature, they show that they have a law in themselves, for they demonstrate the effect of a law operating in their own hearts. Their own consciences endorse the existence of such a law, for there is something which condemns or commends their actions.

16 We may be sure that all this will be taken into account in the day of true judgment, when God will judge men’s secret lives by Jesus Christ, as my Gospel plainly states.

(Phillip's translation; my personal favorite from the days when I bothered having a personal favorite.)

In short, I suspect that for many Xians the response would be that they show the "works" of whatever "law" those Xians think Paul was referring to without explicit knowledge of that law.

Some would also want to discuss the meaning of the word "good" in your post. Some of what you call good they might not, so for those examples the point is moot.

[Lordquinton]

10. Like how you posted something while showing you don't understand it?

it says "with no knowledge" the majority of atheists have intimate knowledge of the "law" probably better than the average christian, so it doesn't apply for that either.

That you had to add "whatever law... paul was referring to" shows at your grasping. It's god's law, if you want to argue that point then you had better be more prepared than "you just don't understand"

[edhopper]

11. Why are good and bad people distributed pretty evenly

no matter the religion or lack there of?

[DavidDvorkin]

12. Right

It's clearly something innate.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. are they?

based on what evidence can you assert that the distribution of good and bad people does not vary based on religious belief vs non-belief?

[edhopper]

14. People is people

good and bad.
Their were plenty of evil atheists and plenty of good believers.

Not saying atheism has anything to do with it, just the opposite.

Russia and China are filled with bad atheists, this country is filled with bad Christians.

Do you have evidence, historically and worldwide that differs?

Of course there is what we mean by good and bad.

But I think arguing that it goes either way is problematic, for every ISIS there is a Pol Pot and so on.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. actually there is some evidence that very religious people are less likely to be criminals.

people is people is sort of not saying anything. It is entirely possible that religion or the lack thereof could be a factor in how people behave.

[edhopper]

18. Could be

but i haven't seen any data, and when we talk about many, many cultures through out history, isolating religious belief or non belief is close to impossible.

Plus we are talking about good and bad people, not whether they are criminals. Who would you say is a bad person, Eric Garner, a "criminal" or Dick Cheney or Scott Walker?

People is people. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[AtheistCrusader]

19. U.S. DoJ says we make up 0.02% of the prison population.

Is if we're equally 'evil' we are unequally good at getting away with it.

[edhopper]

20. so would you say

Black people are not as good as white because they are proportionally more in prison.
You are also limiting it to the US.

[AtheistCrusader]

21. The U.S. Is a plenty sizeable sample population.

If you want to look at the religiosity of prison population in Norway, that's cool with me.

Racial bias in law enforcement, prosecution, conviction, and sentencing is well documented. Reveals not much, especially given there is little difference in religiousity between black/white populations.

[edhopper]

22. As is the demographics of non believers

so the whole "prison population" used for good/bad is a non starter for me.

Who is bad, all the drug offenders in prison or the people on Wall Street who crashed the economy and remain as pillars of the community?

[AtheistCrusader]

23. The Pirates running He show on Wall Street of course.

But that doesn't speak to the religiousity of either population.

Are you suggesting the robber barons are less likely to be religious?

[edhopper]

24. Higher income seems to correlate with less religion.

which could also account for the lower prison population.

[Act_of_Reparation]

25. Not quite.

[edhopper]

26. So what point are you trying to make

as far as good and bad people who are religious/nonreligious?

Are Jews better than Buddhists? Are you still saying prison population is tied to religion?

These statistics have little pertinence to the discussion.

[Act_of_Reparation]

28. Little pertinence?

You just attempted to correlate atheism with wealth. These statistics suggest the correlation isn't all that strong.

[edhopper]

29. No

I said atheist tend to have higher than average income.
Which could account for their being less atheist criminals in this country.
Since income is a big determination of who is in jail.

But this is beside the point as I have said, over and over.

I'm done here.

[Act_of_Reparation]

30. I'm not trying to bust your balls ed.

Criminality is a complex issue. While it may correlate highly and negatively with income, money is hardly the only consideration. Statistics, this graph included, show some social factors confound the influence of income on criminality.

And just so I'm clear, I'm not arguing that religion or irreligion make one good or bad. Rather, I'm asking how the experience of being/becoming atheist or religious influences social behavior.

[edhopper]

31. I think that very much depends on the larger culture the person is in.

[Leontius]

16. Do they?

[DavidDvorkin]

17. As explained in the blog post.

[edhopper]

27. Why are people good or bad?

and does God have anything to do with it?