How Pope Francis just destroyed the GOP’s religious con artists

[cbayer]

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/19/how_pope_francis_just_destroyed_the_gops_religious_con_artists/

FRIDAY, JUN 19, 2015 07:59 AM EDT

Republicans love to flaunt their religion, but only if it conforms to their politics. Francis just made that harder

BOB CESCA


Pope Francis (Credit: Reuters/Dado Ruvic)

Over the past few weeks, we’ve heard the initial cannon volleys from the parapets of the GOP hurled in the direction of Pope Francis. But as of yesterday, when the Pope delivered a major encyclical on the climate crisis, there was a thermonuclear freakout, from not just Fox News and AM talk radio, but nearly every Republican with internet access. Already, Greg Gutfeld from Fox News Channel’s The Five referred to the Pope as the “most dangerous man in the world.”

Pope Francis’s encyclical was specifically intended as a call to action on man-made global warming. And this particular call to action contains, among other things, the following groundbreaking line:

We are not God. The earth was here before us and it has been given to us. This allows us to respond to the charge that Judaeo-Christian thinking, on the basis of the Genesis account which grants man “dominion” over the earth (cf. Gen 1:28), has encouraged the unbridled exploitation of nature by painting him as domineering and destructive by nature. This is not a correct interpretation of the Bible as understood by the Church.

That low rumbling noise you just heard was the sound of a million paleoconservative collapsing on their fainting couches. The Pope, here, is completely undermining the religious cornerstone for the entire GOP position on the climate, as well as pollution, animals and nature in general. Simply put: Sorry, no, the Bible doesn’t give us the power to ruin the planet for humans or other forms of life.

The text continues:

Although it is true that we Christians have at times incorrectly interpreted the Scriptures, nowadays we must forcefully reject the notion that our being created in God’s image and given dominion over the earth justifies absolute domination over other creatures. The biblical texts are to be read in their context, with an appropriate hermeneutic, recognizing that they tell us to “till and keep” the garden of the world (cf. Gen 2:15). “Tilling” refers to cultivating, ploughing or working, while “keeping” means caring, protecting, overseeing and preserving. This implies a relationship of mutual responsibility between human beings and nature.

more at link

[demwing]

1. How is this man still alive?

Dear Pope.

Please avoid flights in small aircraft, riding around in convertible Pope-mobiles, and any food that smells of bitter almonds. In fact, don't even eat almonds.

thanks!

[cbayer]

3. Concerns for his safety are legitimate.

But martyring him could be a fatal error for his enemies, because he is widely loved.

[rpannier]

6. He live in the apartment not in the Vatican Palace

that probably aids in keeping him alive as there are very few people who have unfettered access and anyone who goes to the apartments is noticed

[skepticscott]

7. Are you implying that the Catholic Church

enforces hierarchical control by contract murder? If you are, you've basically just flagged the entire church as a criminal organization.

[Cleita]

19. You surely are not that naive. Assassinating popes and making it look like a natural death,

dates back to the Borgias. And it's not the Catholic Church but a small cabal within the Vatican who have no scruples by making the ends justify the means.

[skepticscott]

37. You're comparing today to a time when

popes were selected far differently than they are now. You surely are not so naive as to think those two situations are comparable. And who are the members of this "cabal"? What are their names and their positions? How do they continue to be replaced in those positions when they die? You're surely not claiming that lots of people know they exist, but nobody can actually name them? What evidence other than conspiracy-mongering do you have of their alleged crimes?

[Cleita]

38. Oh, I forgot. They are men of God and would never think of such things.

Of course they aren't going to leave evidence lying around. But many think otherwise and I'm sure many are carrying secrets about this to the grave that they know but can't reveal. If one party confesses they had a hand in assassinating a Pope, the confessor can't reveal it because of the seal of confession.

[skepticscott]

39. Ah, yes of course

the old "the fact that there is no evidence for it just proves what a really good conspiracy it is" argument.

[Cleita]

40. Who are you arguing with?

It's all speculation. Remember there already was an assassination attempt on a Pope that we know of for sure and some rather suspicious Pope deaths in the last century. Since the Vatican is considered a sovereign nation, there is no one to investigate but the Vatican investigating itself. Even if the Curia knows for sure, they wouldn't release the information because of the scandal.

[skepticscott]

41. You're the one who jumped in here

No one asked you to, and I wasn't responding to you. You and others here are the ones arguing for a rather fanciful and unsupported conspiracy theory as a apologetic tactic, i.e. "The pope wants to do and say what's really right, but he knows if he does, he'll get whacked. He's not really a bigot, but he has to pretend that he's one to stay alive, so we have to excuse anything he says or does".

And of course, everything you're arguing here just goes back to my original point. If it were true, the Catholic Church has at its core a criminal conspiracy that is maintained and enforced by contract murder.

[Cleita]

42. Nobody is supposed to jump in without your permission?

That's pretty high and mighty of you.

[okasha]

47. I would suppose

that any assassination attempt on this Pope would come from outside the Vatican, from those whose profits will be reduced if we actually do manage to address climate change at all successfully.

There is nothing I have seen so far in this encyclical that represents a departure from established Catholic theology. As has been pointed out, its spiritual and doctrinal roots are found in the teachings of St. Francis.

[Cleita]

49. I agree, but he's being a little loud about it. Think about it. eom

[okasha]

50. There's a certain degree of protection

in being loud and visible. As cbayer says, it would be disastrous for his enemies to make a martyr of him. He'd be a popularly declared saint before his successor ever got his new white cassock fitted.

[Cleita]

53. Fine. However, they will never make a martyr of him. They aren't that stupid. eom

[TimeToEvolve]

12. YUP! he sure is making a lot of enemies in high places by choosing the moral high road...

in this insane world simply having integrity makes you a target of the bullies and psychopaths.

Pope Francis is the best pope IMO, a true Christian who follows the teachings of Christ, totally unlike these "pastors" here in the U.S. who simply pay lip service to God and bastardize His teachings to rationalize hate, violence, racism, homophobia, greed, etc.

[jwirr]

14. I often wonder if the committee that chose him as Pope knew what they were getting. He has the

courage to stand up for what is right.

[TimeToEvolve]

17. probably not.

someone should tell them that it may have been God's will

i though i would never see the day when the Pope would say something that would cause Oxycontin Boy to have a tissyfit.

[jwirr]

25. LOL They do claim that it is God's will. Today at least some of our politicians are claiming God

made a mistake.

[dixiegrrrrl]

30. And where did he come from, and how did he get to be Pope

with those radical liberal ideas?
None the less, huzzah! for him!

[Frustratedlady]

2. This man should have been a carpenter...

He hits the nail on the head more often than not.

I'm not even Catholic, but I like the way he thinks and interprets other's thinking. On top of that, he keeps the GOP riled up. Pretty soon, the GOP will have to write their own Bible because their thinking is moving so far away from the original.

Love to see the steam rise from their bobble heads.

[cbayer]

4. Lol, love your carpenter analogy.

I also like many of the things he says, though I remain very unhappy with his position on GLBT civil rights and rights as parents.

But anything that pisses off the GOP is ok with me!

[calimary]

23. So do I!

You almost word-for-word wrote my post, except that I would add in my discomfort with his still-antique positions on women priests and women's rights.

That said, this should piss off the GOP alright. And anything that pisses off the GOP is MORE than alright by me. Anything that pisses off the GOP can't be a bad thing!

I only regret that this news story got completely obliterated by the horror in Charleston. Completely understandable, and this is NO attempt to minimize what happened Wednesday night, in ANY way. As a retired newsperson, I understand the dynamics of how that works. But at the same time, that is gratifying to me, too, even while it big footed this HUGELY urgent issue at the heart of the Pope's latest action. With that despicable crime, we are now - amazingly enough - talking about, and gaining momentum on, TWO previously untouchable issues - that damn flag AND the hideous obsession this nation has with guns. Where, before, we have been met with wholesale obstruction and refusal to discuss and refusal from the other side even to consider or entertain changing. Denial, denial, denial, excuses, excuses, and more excuses. And here now, with the Pope, we now get to talk about and hopefully gain some momentum on behalf of another issue on which we haven't seemed to gain much traction - The REALITY of climate change and humankind's direct responsibility for it. Here, too, we've faced NOTHING but a wall of denial, denial, denial and excuses, excuses, and more excuses.

I was theorizing in another thread about how the assertions we've been pelted with by the far wrong - who have loudly and relentlessly tried to reprogram people's thinking (as dubya once said - "to kinda catapult the propaganda&quot that this country is "center-right." HERE are three more examples of how our country is NOT "center-right." The TIMES we live in are NOT "center-right." The CIRCUMSTANCES that we are now dealing with as a people - indeed, as a species - are NOT "center-right." We're going LEFT, people.

So far, we've had to slog through too damn many damn "NOPE! Can't touch this!" obstacles placed in our way by the CONservative side. Emphasis on the "CON" part, because in my opinion it's nothing more than a HUGE CON-game that's been played on us for almost 40 years now. (Powell Doctrine link conveniently located in my sig line below.)

And THIS week, we have now seen not one, not two, but now THREE HUGE PUSHES back toward rational thinking, a forcible facing of uncomfortable REALITY (MORE "inconvenient truths&quot , and some real true genuine honest-to-God FACTS.

Now, we can push, even force the conversation about getting rid of that goddam hate rag, that accursed Dixie Swastika, that's blighted American vision for decades, that's been pulled down forcibly over our faces and blinding our eyes and our clear vision of reality, almost like some sinister hood that's been forced down over our heads and forced us to live, almost like hostages, under those damn white hooded sheets.
Now, we can push, even force the conversation about guns, the wanton access to them, the obscene proliferation of them, and the REAL damage they do and the sin too many of us are freely able to commit with them, almost totally with impunity because another untouchable - the 2nd Amendment that, itself, desperately needs further amendment and updating.
Now, we can ALSO push, even force the conversation about how we humans ARE causing a REAL phenomena that threatens to exterminate us all. Including the deniers. No less than THE POPE has our back on this one (and I suspect His Holiness might even be with us on the gun issue - and with us on the removal of that damn flag).

[cbayer]

29. What a great summary of this past week.

You might consider putting it up as an OP.

[okasha]

48. He follows a carpenter.

[cleanhippie]

51. What did the carpenter you're referring to build?

Other than you were told he was a carpenter, how do you know that carpentry was actually his trade?

And why is that important?

[edhopper]

5. There is no limit to the extent of GOP hypocrisy

unfortunately, the media and the mass, inattentive American populace continues to ignore it.
Repugs calling out the Pope for mixing religion and politics is something you would see in the Onion.
But you won't see the Press calling them out.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

8. till and keep” the garden of the world

Republicans don't care about the world.

[Romeo.lima333]

9. hermeneutic/

adjective

1.
of or relating to the interpretation of Scripture; using or relating to hermeneutics
2.
interpretive

[BlancheSplanchnik]

10. I had a conversation on the subject ...geez, 15 years ago?...with a born again.

When she said something about not worrying about pollution or destruction of forests or something, and referred to that line.

I replied with the biblical message about stewardship of the Earth, which intends responsible caretaking. Luckily, she's not a raging idiot, and she did stop and realize the point. That was a good day.

I hope the Pope continues to highlight the lies of CONservative christofascism.

[cbayer]

11. The position that we don't need to worry about taking care of this planet

will cotinue to be held by some, but it becomes increasingly difficult to support in any way.

A lot of evangelicals are coming around, and that's excellent news.

Great job with your friend. Sometimes a kind and thoughtful conversation can change things.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

16. Yep, I've found that to be true many times.

I can't say I've been able to cause a conversion, but I've been able to spark a moment of clarity many times.
Being impatient, I always WISH for the epiphany, but that hasn't happened.

So I have to stick my ego back in my pocket and admit I can't change the world all by myself with my overpowering intellect and warm personality.



*snarf*

[cbayer]

21. Lol. You can change the world one person at a time.

Approaching religious people in a way that doesn't threaten their basic beliefs and even supports them can make a difference. Attacking them is likely to drive them further into their corner.

Your overpowering intellect and warm personality may open a door that was formerly shut.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

24. ...

I'll keep trying! When I can restrain myself from smacking them in the snout with a rotten mackerel, which is what I'd really like to do.

[cbayer]

28. I know how you feel, but flies and honey and all that...

[okasha]

54. Hit 'em with Psalm 104.

'There is the great and wide sea, ....and that leviathan, which thou hads made to take his pleasure therein..."

Imagine that-- the sea made for the delight of a non-human being. That should make them see stars.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

55. Oh, I'm betting the average conservative christian didn't choose a judgemental,

Fear and punishment based religious cult, obsessed with conformity and strict, controlling rules because he's got such a heart for soaring metaphor.

edit to add: at least judging from the ones I've known....

[okasha]

56. The average conservative Christian

usually considers the Bible either inerrant or divinely inspired.

You don't have to tell them that large parts of 104 are lifted almost verbatim from Akhenaten's "Hymn to the Sun Disc."

[BlancheSplanchnik]

58. !

Really?!

Wow.... Now *that* is fascinating!

[jwirr]

13. Born and raised in a conservative corner of Iowa: our church clearly taught that we were to be

the stewards of the earth. That is the caretakers. Then along comes big-agra and out goes the Bible.

The word stewards was also used to explain our relationship to the church. Caretakers.

[Still In Wisconsin]

18. I learned the same thing.

Pope Francis is a godsend...pun not intended.

[cbayer]

22. I was raised the same way, but, unfortunately, that's not true in all

religious groups.

I am glad that there is a movement to stand up to them.

[Baitball Blogger]

15. Dang. He is the leader that I thought the Pope position was made for when I

was a child.

[cantbeserious]

20. Even To A Non-Religous Person Like Myself - This Man Has Much To Say

eom

[world wide wally]

26. Smart man

Too bad the religious right believes that the Republican party is God

[blm]

27. AND he is a degreed member of the Science community.

So the GOP can take their 'I am not a scientist' BS and shove it back up their lying @sses.

[immoderate]

31. He is better than the average Pope... but let's not get crazy!

He should talk about population pressure, and allow contraception. That's for starts.

--imm

[cbayer]

32. The birth control issue is huge.

He is making a point about population pressure but the lack of support for family planning that involves contraception is something that can not be ignored.

[immoderate]

33. Without the birth control, reproductive rights, and LGBT issues, he could be a moderate DUer.

--imm

[cbayer]

34. I'm not sure you can expect more.

I'm going to continue to support him when he does the right thing. In particular, since I think climate change is the most critical item on the human agenda, I'm going to stand firmly with him on this issue.

I will continue to reject and condemn some of his other issues, but it seems foolhardy of me to not discriminate between what is good and what it not.

[immoderate]

35. I didn't expect what we got. But I generally agree.

Climate and poverty are major issues. And I welcome the Pope to join DU.

--imm

[cbayer]

36. Lol. Would love to see his avatar and sig line!

[skepticscott]

44. Why are you standing with him particularly?

He's decades late weighing in on this issue, and can't do anything as far as policy that will make difference. As far as persuading others, you and his many other apologists here argue incessantly that people simply ignore the pope on issues like birth control and same-sex marriage, so we shouldn't worry about what he says on those issues. Why all of a sudden should what he says on THIS issue make any more difference?

[cleanhippie]

52. Yet if the Pope were a DU poster, you would lobby for his tombstoning.

Hmmm, interesting.

[glinda]

43. The Conservatives are Employees of the Fossil Fuel Industries. Period.

Say it over and over and over again. Say it publicly also. Say it on TV, in the paper and in all of the Media. Maybe then people will quit voting them in.

[cbayer]

45. The US populace is so far behind when it comes to climate change.

I think once they (we) start to wake up and get educated, the approach you suggest will be critical and could bring the repubs down.

[Lordquinton]

46. They can just ignore what says

The same way liberals ignore the things he says about gay rights, women's rights, child abues (PROTIP: He's for it) slander against his church, and a holy host of other issues he's way off base on. Broken clock that is trying to shove theology into science and politics. We're not having these issues because we turned our backs on god, now stop distracting from the horrible crap your church is still doing.

[trotsky]

57. ...