Religion
Related: About this forumMere Atheism Isn’t Enough
February 12, 2015
by Neil Carter
About twenty years ago a former Presbyterian minister who graduated from the same seminary from which I graduated killed an abortion doctor as well as his bodyguard, who was a retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel, because he believed obedience to the Bible demanded it. The killer’s name was Paul Hill and he had become quite taken with theonomy, a variation of Reformed theology which argues that the Old Testament legal system should be recontextualized for modern society and made the law of the land. Because he believed abortion was murder, he believed it was therefore right and good to take the lives of those who take the lives of others. Ironically, ten years after Hill took the lives of both the doctor and the soldier, the state of Florida took his life via lethal injection. An eye for an eye indeed.
Did Hill’s religion lead him to kill? Well, yes and no. I’ve known several theonomists and I’ve had debates over theology with many who subscribe to the same theology that Hill subscribed to but none of them are killers. None of them ever argued that we should take legal matters into our own hands and go around executing people who don’t follow the Old Testament law. On the contrary, everyone else I’ve ever heard talk about this from that perspective condemned Hill’s murderous actions in no uncertain terms. Why did it seem like a logical outworking of that system to him but not to everyone else? The answer is simple: It’s because most people aren’t psychotic. Most people don’t use their ideologies to justify killing people, and the ones who do generally do not get the backing of the communities to which they belong because most people value human life more than that.
You can argue that his ideology didn’t provide sufficient condemnation for retributive murder, and perhaps there’s some room for that discussion. But it’s simply not fair to lay the blame for his actions at the feet of his theology. Anyone who understands that ideology well knows that even for theonomists Jesus’s censure of retributive violence in the New Testament trumps that element within the Mosaic law. Hill should have understood that, but he didn’t. Was that the fault of his theological system? No, it was the result of a dysfunctional personality. Normal healthy people don’t go out and commit premeditated murder because of their ideology.* Any fair appraisal of his story will acknowledge that.
Two days ago a self-described anti-theist named Craig Hicks murdered three young Muslims just outside the campus of UNC at Chapel Hill. The victims, who were of Syrian descent but were all raised in North Carolina, were well-known leaders of the Muslim Student Association at N.C. State. One of the victims was a dentistry student who was planning to take a trip to visit Syrian refugees to provide volunteer medical help for the children in the camps. This story is just heartbreaking any way you look at it. Reports so far indicate that Hicks’s crime was motivated by an ongoing dispute over parking spaces in their condominium. A quick glance at his Facebook page indicates that he regularly criticizes religion and posts the same anti-theistic memes that make the rounds among others who feel the same way about religion. Members of the online atheist communities to which I’m connected have unanimously condemned Hicks’s actions and have voiced their support of the Muslim community in the midst of this tragedy. The Foundation Beyond Belief has even set up a page for people to donate to the Syrian American Medical Society, to which Deah Shaddy Barakat belonged.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessindixie/2015/02/12/mere-atheism-isnt-enough/
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cbayer
(146,218 posts)many are trying to express.
This could be a watershed moment of sorts and an opportunity to call out prejudice and bigotry in all communities that one considers themselves to be a member.
There is no need for anyone to be defensive, but there is an opportunity to stand up with condemnation for the behavior of this murderer and support for the Muslim community. I am glad that the author is seeing that happening in the communities he is connected with.
rug
(82,333 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)say what one doesn't believe. You may share a single label, but until you find out what someone believes, you really don't know if you share anything else at all.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)"But people still need to be connected to groups that deliberately reinforce those values in order to make them stick."
Like fuck I do. He's cheerleading for tribalism. FUCK THAT.
Some of us have gone quite beyond 'mere atheism' for morality and other ideologies for day to day functioning on human society. Duck him for stepping up *now* and telling everyone how it ought to be, like nobody's been working on these problems.
rug
(82,333 posts)Neil Carter is a high school Geometry teacher, a tutor, a swim coach, a father of five children, and a skeptic living in the Bible Belt. A former church elder with a seminary education, Neil mostly writes now about the struggles of former evangelicals living in the midst of a highly religious subculture.
He might be saying you're already in one.
okasha
(11,573 posts)is a "tribe."
So are gunners.
So are science-fiction fans.
I don't see a problem.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)"But people still need to be connected to groups that deliberately reinforce those values in order to make them stick."
That's disgusting.
I'm not a progressive, that participates in DU for 'reinforcement' of my values. I don't NEED a substitute authority to moderate my values.
Fuck that shit.
okasha
(11,573 posts)mildly disagreeing with his terminology.
It's not all about you, Crusader.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)In fairness you were also disagreeing with Rug, but you were essentially saying tribalism is (in some cases) ok. I disagree with that, personally. That's all.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)"But people still need to be connected to groups that deliberately reinforce those values in order to make them stick."
He may be a 'former' church elder, but that claim belies the fact he didn't fall far from the tree. Maybe you'd need a substitute tribe if you left yours. I don't.
rug
(82,333 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Scratch that. You need it to.
rug
(82,333 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Understand why you are desperate for it to.
rug
(82,333 posts)In this case, it's the behavior of some atheists and antitheists that is the subject.
I understand your reluctance to acknowledge it.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)And you know it.
But don't worry. You've tipped your hand. It'll be the subject of a new OP.
rug
(82,333 posts)The only deflection I see is your attempt to trash the author, followed by your rant about what you would or would not do about tribes, which is utterly irrelevant.
It is not about you, AC. That's the deflection.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Pretend otherwise all you want.
I am not part of a tribe of atheists. Period.
rug
(82,333 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I already made my position clear.
rug
(82,333 posts)
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)It would please me greatly if everyone would just shut the hell up about religion, pro or anti. If you want to have rituals that's fine but leave it in your home or church and don't try to push it on other people.
Literally this morning I got asked if I "knew the Lord" by someone I've never met in my life. It's none of their business any more than my sex life is and the exasperated and weary part of me wanted to say "No but I've known your mother".
You would have been proud of me, I just kept walking and told the man good morning.
rug
(82,333 posts)Usually I don't mind if somebody in the street asks me for something, a cigarette, a buck, or my soul. It's persisting that ticks me off.
