Deuteronomy 17:2-7

[trotsky]

If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the Lord gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the Lord your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky, and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. On the testimony of two or three witnesses a person is to be put to death, but no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.

Quran 9:5

So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.

The bottom line here is, while most followers of the Abrahamic religions do not take these verses literally today (thank the FSM!), they still exist in the texts the the followers of those religions use, and people who DO take them literally as divine commandments also still exist.

I still have yet to see anyone A) identify the "Official Big Book of Atheism" from which the atheistic position is derived, and B) point to the direct quotes in that book that even remotely appear to justify murder.

I understand that it is difficult for some to see how those situations are different, and that it's more of a quest to go "Ha ha neener neener atheists kill too", but the fact is, I still haven't seen anyone deny the Chapel Hill shooter is an atheist (clearly he is). Yet many individuals fell over each other claiming that the Charlie Hebdo attackers weren't Muslim, or that George Bush isn't a Christian.

Yes, humans can be horrible to each other. They don't need a religion to be. But sometimes they do horrible things specifically because they think a god commanded them to - and unless we are allowed to criticize religious belief just like any other idea, no one can prove them wrong.

[DetlefK]

1. That is because atheism is not defined by adherence to a doctrine.

We atheists don't need to claim that the shooter wasn't really an atheist, because there is no atheist doctrine or community. There are no atheist beliefs, no infallible scriptures, there are no squabbling atheist denominations, there are no schisms and no heretics in atheism.

Religious communities are artificial. Atheism is the natural state and each atheist is alone. Nobody forces him to hold onto atheism. Each atheist has to be able to defend his stance. Refering to an authority "He said there is no God and he is always right!" simply doesn't work in atheist arguments.

[trotsky]

3. Correct.

I think many believers simply cannot "grok" atheism. The truly believe that it is just like religion, with leaders that we follow and official doctrines and so on. From everything I've observed and experienced, "organized" atheism is anything but.

[longship]

2. Your tag line is important.

First, I don't give a fuck what other people believe, even when they express it strongly. I feel strongly that people should be measured by their actions, not their beliefs, or lack thereof (whichever the case may be).

It was inevitable, when this murderer was revealed to be an atheist, that there would be some blowback. However, I still say that I am still proud of my atheist brethren. That people would no more paint atheism with such a broad brush than the actions of a bad theist be extended to all theists.

To do so is to cherry pick. That's why I feel strongly that people should be judged , not by beliefs, but by actions.

We have to touch one another.

R&K

[rug]

4. Harris 12:1:04

It is time we admitted that we are not at war with "terrorism". We are at war with Islam.

Harris 9:06

If I could wave a magic wand and get rid of either rape or religion, I would not hesitate to get rid of religion.

Hitchens 9:15:01

I should perhaps confess that on September 11 last, once I had experienced all the usual mammalian gamut of emotions, from rage to nausea, I also discovered that another sensation was contending for mastery. On examination, and to my own surprise and pleasure, it turned out be exhilaration. Here was the most frightful enemy–theocratic barbarism–in plain view….I realized that if the battle went on until the last day of my life, I would never get bored in prosecuting it to the utmost.

Hitchens 11:15:01

"Bombing Afghanistan back into the Stone Age" was quite a favourite headline for some wobbly liberals... But an instant's thought shows that Afghanistan is being, if anything, bombed OUT of the Stone Age.

Hitchens 9:09:02

Only a complete moral idiot can believe for an instant that we are fighting against the wretched of the earth. We are fighting, as I said before, against the scum of the earth

[Promethean]

5. Isn't it cute how rug always quotes some people

who are at best "that guy who wrote an entertaining book" to atheists? As if it compares to the "the inspired word of the supreme being" or the "infallible earthly representative of the supreme being."

[rug]

6. Isn't it cute how Promethean minimizes words of hate said by actual human beings,

as opposed to three thousand year old words uttered by nonexistent entities.

[Fumesucker]

7. Someone human put those words on paper or papyrus, or goatskin or cuneiform tablets or whatever

Then some other humans read them, copied them, translated them, chose them from among other words and so on..

[rug]

8. And someone converted the newer words into pixels to the titillation of bigots everywhere.

[Fumesucker]

9. I wouldn't know, never read any of them

Saw Hitchens on TV a few times back when I still watched that crud, other than that all I know is what I hear here.

Lots more bigots like the old words though, those words I have read.

[rug]

10. The meaning is much, much clearer when spoken contemporaneously.

[Fumesucker]

11. I don't hear all that well any more, for me the spoken word is often muddy and indistinct

For instance I've never gotten into Southpark because I can't understand those high pitched voices.

Poor hearing is one of the reasons I don't watch TV any more, odd thing about losing hearing is that in some ways you become more sensitive to noise. The TV being on makes it basically impossible for me to follow a conversation in the room. After a while away from it you realize just how awful TV is for the most part.

[rug]

12. Really? I've noticed some loss as well.

Along with vision. This sucks. Not enough to disable but enough to scare the shit out of me.

[Fumesucker]

13. I'm old enough for hearing loss to come with the territory..

It has some compensations, I can conveniently not hear things I don't want to hear and no one suspects I'm sandbagging.

Considering the abuse I've put my ears through it's a wonder I can hear as well as I do.

You don't know what you've got till it's gone, eh?

[rug]

14. Yup, the sad truth.

[Humanist_Activist]

22. That seems rich coming from you...

Have you condemned this guy yet?

http://www.glaad.org/blog/pope-francis-called-marriage-equality-ideological-colonization-destroy-family

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2015/02/slovakia-pope-francis-endorses-public.html

[rug]

23. I will as soon as he takes my parking spot.

[edhopper]

25. You don't believe any of the bible

comes from God? Not a word?

This is news to me.

[AtheistCrusader]

15. Not my circius, not my monkey.

[Humanist_Activist]

16. Are those supposed to be counterpoints? n/t

[rug]

17. That assumes there was a point in the first place.

People who hate find plenty of justification wherever they want.

[Humanist_Activist]

18. Was this crime motivated by hate, or by an unbalanced man who had an obsession with parking?

You seem so quick in assuming its hatred that was a the motivator.

[rug]

24. How interesting.

What was your take on the psychotic mother who killed her children because she heard voices from God?

[Humanist_Activist]

26. Assuming she isn't using that as an excuse for piss poor parenting, I would say she suffers..

from auditory hallucinations, from what, I don't know, and her religious background aided her ill mind into creating a backstory for the voices, giving them an air of authority. Please bear in mind, that her illness is the underlying cause, her religion aided in so much as anything important to her life could have. She could have thought she was hearing the voice of her favorite dead uncle, or from her favorite actor or character on TV, or from another mythology, or Satan, etc.

[rug]

27. Do you think Hicks' anti-religion views aide his ill mind in shooting these three Muslims?

[Humanist_Activist]

28. If he believed it dehumanized his victims, sure.

It may have created an excuse in his mind, a justification for his actions, beyond the initial source of anger, which appears to be over parking.

[rug]

29. That's a good point.

One of the first things hatred does is dehumanize its targets.

[Humanist_Activist]

30. That's the issue people sometimes can't separate...

beliefs from people.

Here, I'll give an example, I live right in little Bosnia, that's the unofficial name for the area most Bosnian Muslim refugees fled to during the war in the 1990s. And I'll be frank, they have revitalized a city that was slowly dying, and may be the first step in turning it around, and while racial tensions here are high, as everyone in the country knows, hopefully we will learn from recent troubles and let all people who live here build a sustainable, growing community.

I would say most of these people are good people, who have the recent immigrant drive to try to make something of themselves in their new home, and it brings new energy into places that desperately need it. However, despite this, I'm still a strong critic of Islam itself, I find little redeeming in it.

[okasha]

31. I thought only teenaged boys had obsessions with parking.

[PotatoChip]

19. Why are *some* atheists so defensive over the Chapel Hill incident?

Could it be that the same broad brush some of them use to characterize people of faith is now being used on them?

[Humanist_Activist]

20. I'm not, I don't view them as related...

this guy could very well have an anti-Muslim bias that contributed to his crime, that's also completely unrelated to his atheism, him being an American has more to do with it than him be atheist. We are bombarded by both overly defensive Muslims and anti-Muslim bias in the media, even our entertainment media has, for years, shown Islam in an, at best, "foreign" light.

[trotsky]

21. If that's what you got from my post,

you should really read the whole thing.