Former Atheist Activist Patrick Greene Responds to Critics

[rug]

By Jeff Schapiro , Christian Post Reporter
April 6, 2012|8:56 am

Patrick Greene was an outspoken atheist until recently, when the generosity of a few Christians caused him to reconsider his beliefs. He now says he is a Christian. But some people – atheists as well as Christians – aren't just taking him at his word, and are openly criticizing both Greene and his conversion.

- snip -

Some nonbelievers have been critical of Greene, saying that his conversion isn't legitimate because he was never really an atheist. Others have claimed that he only became a Christian because he likes both the attention he is getting and the money he has received from believers, though he told CP on Thursday that the money has nothing to do with it.

"The financial help that my wife and I got is totally irrelevant," he said. He later added, "What's money got to do with religion or belief? Nothing...that's stupid."

He says the "kindness, generosity and warmth" of the Christians who have helped him led him to reconsider his beliefs, but they did not convince him to suddenly believe in God. He also said that anyone who doubts he was indeed an atheist before only needs to speak with his wife, who he has been married to for over 33 years and is still an atheist, to find out that he really was.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/former-atheist-activist-patrick-greene-responds-to-critics-72768/

[dmallind]

1. OK - but what's kindness generosity and warmth got to do with ontology?

Becoming an atheist because you meet nice atheists would be very stupid. Why is it less stupid to become a Christian thusly?

[rug]

2. It probably has less to do with intellectual persuasion than the shock of meeting authentic people.

[Fumesucker]

3. Yep, only Christians can be "authentic".. n/t

[rug]

4. Why that's precisely what I said, isn't it?

Your post is a good example of why meeting any authentic person is shocking.

[eqfan592]

12. Actually, I'd say your post is, rug.

You clearly implied that the people Greene hung around with before (atheists) weren't authentic (hence the "shock" you spoke of) and that meeting such authentic people was the cause of his "conversion."

Better to just come out and say it than beat around the bush. Makes you seem less "authentic."

[rug]

18. Keep your inferences out of my implications.

[Thats my opinion]

31. Of course not nt

[Thats my opinion]

30. Everything!!nt

[trotsky]

5. "What's money got to do with religion or belief?"

Nothing. Nothing at all.

[eqfan592]

15. Ya know, the second I read that line, I thought he had to be joking.

Maybe he's secretly sending out a message that he is, in fact, just doing this for the money?? lol

[Silent3]

6. I wonder if he still thinks the government shouldn't be sponsoring religious displays...

...or if he's suddenly A-OK with American cities and towns putting up Nativity scenes in public places?

If he no longer cares as much for separation of church and state, would that make Greene more "authentic"?

[rug]

10. I don't know what to make of him.

I was referring to the people who helped him.

It's all right there in the post.

[SamG]

7. Someone asked Greene directly here:

I read quite a few articles about Greene’s conversion and they all said about the same thing. Greene converted because Christians paid him $400 and because evolution can’t explain the huge, massive differences between humans and other animals. So I asked Greene what he meant by the huge differences in human and other animals. He told me that he was referring to brain size and physical characteristics.
This was pretty shocking because humans don’t have the largest brains… not even proportionally. But, I told him, even if we did, that wouldn’t disprove evolution and it certainly wouldn’t prove God. More than that, it wouldn’t get you to Jesus either. So what convinced him?
“What got me to Jesus was very simple. With the education levels and knowledge of the societies back 2,000 years ago, Jesus had to be the son of God, because the people there would not have the imagination to make up stories like walking on water, rising from the dead, and changing water into wine.”
...
Oh, there is of course the fact that people 2000 + years ago had awesome imaginations a while Greene might be correct that Christians back then might not have had great imaginations, they could just steal their stories from everyone else. Oh look, that seems to be exactly what happened… either that, or the Greek gods must be real too.

http://www.dangeroustalk.net/?p=2861#.T3788xrNR94.twitter

[AlbertCat]

35. Atheist or Christian....

Greene sounds like an idiot.

[Silent3]

8. "In Pushing Homosexual Agenda Globally, Obama Admin Seeks to Co-opt, Marginalize Religion"

http://www.christianpost.com/news/in-pushing-homosexual-agenda-globally-obama-admin-seeks-to-co-opt-marginalize-religion-72788/

...for anyone interested in more exciting news from christianpost.com.

[rug]

9. Does that have anything to do with this article?

You may recall that all the reports of his conversion traced back to this publication.

I take it you find him distasteful.

[trotsky]

11. Analyzing sources is a good way to discover agendas and uncover bias. n/t

[rug]

19. Attempting to discredit a fact by discrediting the source is a poor subsitute for analysis.

If you have a factual rebuttal to this story, produce it.

[Plantaganet]

38. Glad to hear you say so.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=17855

[rug]

39. Hate to break it to you, but proving a hoax is a factual rebuttal.

[Plantaganet]

41. Hate to break it to you...

...but your reading comprehension is virtually nonexistent.

Go back to the Snopes article and try again. In the meantime, Hoppy Oyster.

[rug]

42. Now there's a fine example of a contentless post.

And I read it carefully.

[SamG]

13. Quite related to Greene's comments, actually:...

Greene, who still believes that homosexuality is an acceptable practice, says after he finishes his ministry studies he wants to lead a gay-affirming congregation. He claims that the verses that discuss homosexuality in the Bible are misinterpreted by many Christians today.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/former-atheist-activist-patrick-greene-responds-to-critics-72768/


The Christian Post, which enables someone with the credentials Piero A. Tozzi to serve up his pro-Papal devout Catholic anti-abortion, anti-birth control, anti-gay agenda.

Piero A. Tozzi serves as senior legal counsel with the Alliance Defense Fund at its headquarters in Scottsdale, Arizona, where he plays a key role with ADF-Global. Since joining ADF in 2010, Tozzi has focused his litigation efforts on international human rights law. He earned his J.D. from Fordham University School of Law in 1996 and is admitted to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, as well as the U.S. District Court for the Southern and Eastern Districts of New York. Tozzi is also a member of the International Law and Practice Section of the New York State Bar Association. Prior to joining ADF, Tozzi served as executive vice president and general counsel for the Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute (C-FAM) while running its New York office, where he lobbied the United Nations on social policy issues and established C-FAM’s public interest law arm, the International Organizations Law Group.

"focused his litigation efforts on international human rights law" advocating his position for denial of abortion rights and sound contraception services to women and against equality for gay people worldwide.

Hardly a publication which balances religious opinions with the principles of equal rights for women and gays. The credibility of Greene's "conversion", then, is brought into question as a legitimate and NEWSWORTHY story.

[rug]

20. If this is "pro-Papal" propaganda, somebody should have told Greene before he criticized the RCC.

[mr blur]

37. So now he's an expert on Bible interpretation?

As well as self-publicity.

[Silent3]

14. I certainly find his new "reasoning" highly suspect

I don't have to meet good Christians to know that there are good Christians. The same is true for Muslims and Jews and Jainists. If meeting good Christians was a revelatory shock to Mr. Greene, he poorly anticipated reality.

"Good" however, or even "authentic", doesn't have a thing to do with being right, with having special knowledge, especially when many good people believe in conflicting things (more conflict than blind men and elephants can erase).

Is Greene sincere? I can give him the benefit of the doubt on that. But seeing his comments on what he thought were the limitations of imagination of people 2000 years ago, there's little here to make me think Greene is onto something important that I've missed all these years.

As for the other content of that web site, it certainly makes me suspect the editorial integrity of the site.

[rug]

21. The Christian Post is more than suspect.

However, it appears to be the only outlet providing original reporting on this interesting story. And the reaction to it is not the least interesting part of it.

[AlbertCat]

36. on this interesting story.

Opportunists getting money from the duped and then joining them is interesting?

[rug]

40. No, it's the appearance of spinning dervishes.

[LiberalAndProud]

16. 's ok.

He's not a TRUE Christian. Just ask some other Christian.

[rug]

22. That remains to be seen.

There does appear to be some dispute whether he was a true atheist.

[eqfan592]

24. Given some of the recent statements he has made recently about past doubts...

...and that this isn't all some sort of hoax, he strikes me as having been more of an agnostic than an atheist.

[LiberalAndProud]

25. I'm not questioning the authenticity of his conversion.

The status of his atheism is not in question in my mind, but I know a couple of dozen Christians who would decry has conversion as not true.

Of course, he could be looking for a profession that one can practice while blind. There is always the possibility that exploitation of the faithful is the end game.

[cbayer]

29. Why not?

[LiberalAndProud]

32. Because he subscribes to unChristian doctrine.

You know the Christian doctrine of which I speak, even if you don't subscribe to it.

[Angry Dragon]

17. ........

[rug]

23. Here, this goes well.

[SamG]

26. It seems as though Patrick Greene was on the radar back in 2008...

Back at that time, he was complaining that major religious leaders were not giving him the attention he deserved, and that he wanted "equal time" to debate them.

FRIDAY, JULY 25, 2008

Patrick Greene checks in

http://atheistexperience.blogspot.com/2008/07/patrick-greene-checks-in.html

Yes, you read that link and date correctly, he was a well-known figure in atheist circles, if not for his exceptional insight, but more for his ego.

Patrick's letter is as follows:

I read your web site and wish equal time on your show.
I want to tell people the truth about the Walmart experience.
And I want to tell everyone about the bumper sticker thing.
By the way, so far Kirk Cameron hasn't gotten back with me yet.
If I was really screwing up, they would never have taken the sticker off the site.
I have taken all I am going to take from Christians. My wife and I have taken their crap for 30 years.
Call me at XXX-XXX-XXXX any day from noon to 5:00p.m.
Patrick Greene
And you have my written permission to use my full name and e-mail address on everythingyou write about me.
I am not in the closet about anything.

That doesn't sound like a well thought-out kind of individual, more like someone craving attention.


Here's a couple of comments about him, remember, this is 2008.

It seems like Patrick's problem is not his atheism but his personality. If you behave badly, people will treat you badly. If you behave nicely, people will treat you nicely. It's just that simple. Not always easy, but always simple.

....

Patrick is acting just like churchgoers who picket, say, a PFLAG speaker at some public venue.

Refute speech with which you disagree, don't suppress it.
I'm glad to see that you AE guys aren't jumping on this moronic bandwagon.

[rug]

27. "It seems like Patrick's problem is not his atheism but his personality."

That sounds familiar.

[SamG]

28. Can we all spell "attention-seeking behavior"?

With well-documented evidence extending back over 4 years already available from a search on Google, it's pretty clear that his habits continue, wherever they may lead, even into a declaration that he has now converted himself to Christianity.

I'm sure the attention he gets from all these folks, including Glenn Beck and all the Christian media makes him feel a lot better than he did fighting against them.


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/atheist-activist-who-threatened-to-sue-to-stop-texas-nativity-has-become-a-christian/

Not that I'm saying that personality factors and habitual thinking patterns, persecution complexes, etc. are ever more important than a sincere and truly righteous Christian self-conversion, I would NEVER say that!

[rug]

33. There's enough of that to go around.

[Jim__]

34. I hope he found something that makes sense to him. - n/t

[darkstar3]

43. I've never been more convinced of his grifter status.

I really should go into revival preaching. Clearly I'd be good at it and there is a large audience willing and waiting to believe.

[rug]

44. He must have become a grifter this year.

[cbayer]

45. He's was never a true scotsman.

[darkstar3]

46. I doubt it, but if so, well, everyone has to start somewhere.

I certainly could become one this year. I'll bet you'd buy my book, too.

[rug]

47. I doubt it.

But you never know.