Pope Francis says it is OK to smack children if their ‘dignity is maintained’

[Eugene]

Source: Associated Press

Pope Francis says it is OK to smack children if their ‘dignity is maintained’

Associated Press
Friday 6 February 2015 01.22 GMT

Pope Francis told parents it is OK to spank their children to discipline them – as long as their dignity is maintained.

Francis made the remarks this week during his weekly general audience, which was devoted to the role of fathers in the family.

Francis outlined the traits of a good father: one who forgives but is able to “correct with firmness” while not discouraging the child.

“One time, I heard a father in a meeting with married couples say ‘I sometimes have to smack my children a bit, but never in the face so as to not humiliate them’,” Francis said.

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Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/06/pope-francis-parents-ok-smack-children-dignity

[BlueJazz]

1. I don't have any children yet but my only smack would be a kiss on the cheek and a firm talking to..

[unblock]

2. a little hit or miss, this pope is.

[trotsky]

3. It gets worse right after your excerpt.

The pope says (to the man who just admitting "smacking" his children around) - “How beautiful.”

Gag me.

[truebrit71]

4. So it's okay to punch someone out if they insult yo mama...

...you can smack your kids around, but no fucking way can we allow teh gays to get married....

Got it..


Yup...this guy's a screaming fucking liberal alright...

[Phlem]

5. oops.

[Runningdawg]

6. I started out disliking this Pope less than the rest

but my opinion is changing. The more I hear, the more disturbingly familiar it sounds.

[gcomeau]

10. He's just better at PR than his predecessor... -eom

[skepticscott]

7. Just waiting to see if any of our resident pope-lovers

will show up to defend this, too. They've already defended his homophobic bigotry, his sexism and his continued cover-up of decades of child rape and abetting of child rape. Bernard Law is still enjoying a cushy retirement under Blank Frank, last anyone heard.

But hey..he hugged an ugly person and told a little girl her dog was going to heaven, so everything's square, right? And...and..SOUP KITCHENS!!

[rug]

13. Got links?

[AtheistCrusader]

29. No, I think the dog/heaven thing was a hoax.

[skepticscott]

15. Apparently they have…what a shock

and probably alleging that they personally have been accused of something, rather than addressing the issues.

[rug]

16. Are you still maintaining your farce of ignore despite your embarassing posts to me in GD?

[LeftishBrit]

8. Well, that basically means it's not OK...

as I have a hard time imagining situations where one can be smacked while maintaining one's dignity.

[edhopper]

9. I can

But it involves safe words and leather.

[Dorian Gray]

24. Well

that's a completely different thing. Not abusing the trust of a young person....

And I can't imagine the Pope will touch upon that subject, 50 Shades imminent release, notwithstanding.

[Dorian Gray]

23. Yes.... I agree

It's impossible to hit a child and maintain that Child's dignity. It's even more impossible for me to hit a child and maintain my dignity.

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. So the child's dignity depends on there being no public evidence of the smack

The Pope seems to think the important thing is that no-one else realises the child has been hit. Do it somewhere it doesn't show. It's not about what the child physically feels, or thinks about being hit; it's about making sure other people don't know you hit the child.

[skepticscott]

12. The best ways to physically abuse and torture people

have always been those that leave no marks. The pope is simply falling in line with conventional wisdom here. And you're right..it doesn't matter to him what the child feels, any more than it mattered to the pope and the church what all those little altar boys felt when they when being sodomized over and over and over.

[Dorian Gray]

25. That's very problematic

if that was what he is inferring.

I would respond to the pope as I did above. It's impossible to hit a child and maintain either the child's or the adult's dignity. So, it is never acceptable.

[cbayer]

14. While I am personally opposed to corporal punishment and did not hit

my kids at all, there has been a lot of debate about this even here on this site.

I hope that it is diminishing and will eventually disappear, and would love to see the church take a stand in opposition to it in general. I think what has happened in some catholic schools is probably worse that what goes on in most homes.

[Htom Sirveaux]

17. 39 countries prohibit all forms of corporal punishment, according to the article.

Some 39 countries prohibit corporal punishment in all settings, including at home, where most abuse occurs. Those nations range from Sweden and Germany to South Sudan and Turkmenistan.

In the United States, parents can legally hit their child as long as the force is “reasonable”. In 19 US states, it’s still legal for personnel in schools to practice “paddling”.

And yet, society hasn't turned into "Lord of the Flies" in Germany or Sweden, and hitting children wouldn't do anything to solve the problems of Turkmenistan or South Sudan (or those of Germany and Sweden, for that matter). There is no good reason for the Pope to endorse corporal punishment. Christians and Christianity should challenge the status quo in the name of love (and there are many who do), not endorse the status quo and make the word "love" hollow. It's an especially bad sign when the status quo starts becoming more loving.

[longship]

18. Is a baseball bat enough? Or too much?

Sit in your magic chair and inform us, Francis. Oh, and by the way... Is this a leftover belief from when you were a bouncer in a bar in Argentina?

This pope, like all the others, is a surrogate to a celestial dictator. Do not expect much from him more than from all the others.

And women? Stay in your places as breed mares.

Catholicism has some real problems.

[skepticscott]

19. Oh, but many people here think he's wonderful

for no other reason than that he says nice things about poor people. Which makes those in the yacht club feel all progressive-y. But for some sad reason, a few pre-packaged banalities that any decent human being could muster outweigh for them a worldwide campaign to deprive an entire segment of the population of their full human rights, a worldwide campaign to perpetuate poverty, starvation and subservience for women, simply because their misbegotten "god" thinks every sperm in sacred, and a worldwide campaign to cover up and abet child rape.

[longship]

20. Well, he's better than the last pope, but I won't give him a pass.

In fact, on gender issues and many others, he is no different. Frankly, I haven't kept score so forgive me. But I think he's pretty much like most popes, although maybe a little bit more progressive in some narrow areas.

It basically does not fool me, though. There are too damned many issues on which he's like the rest. No wonder they're losing parish members worldwide.

My regards.

[skepticscott]

21. So why do so many people think he's wonderful

and what is wrong with people who are so desperate to praise him that they overlook or minimize all of his hatred, oppression and bigotry?

[longship]

22. He apparently has a better public image than previous popes.

That is the only way I could explain it. That is my supposition.

But I don't expect people will see women priests or birth control to be approved any time soon. He has reformed some things, but I don't see much. Then again, I have never been a catholic so I am mostly ignorant about popes.

[chervilant]

26. In this nation, children are the only individuals you can strike with impunity.

The "unintended" consequences of physical punishment include

1) associating love with physical violence,

2) when something is REALLY important, physical violence is justified ("you put a pbj sandwich in the DVD player, I'm gonna whip your ass!&quot , and

3) physical violence becomes "generalized" to adult significant others, and is correlated with relationship violence.

Physical "punishment" often results in low self esteem, trust issues, and a host of other behavioral challenges.

(I find it interesting that "pro-spanking" individuals associate "don't spank" with "don't discipline.&quot

[AtheistCrusader]

28. Exactly. I have yet to have a problem managing my 6 year old's behavior without

resorting to physical violence.

He's too smart. I can't hope to get away with raising a hand to him, and then not having him turn around and do it to someone else. If I wanted to raise a bully, that would be the way to do it.

And you nailed it in your subject line. So depressingly true.

[AtheistCrusader]

27. Typical catholic doctrine. Physical force is ok to modify behavior.

Savagery in a suit with a crisp white collar. Wholesale acceptance/expectation that your kid is so stupid you can hit him or her, in contexts other than self defense, and then you turn around and expect the kid not to hit anyone else, despite your best demonstration.

It's tyrannical, shitty, lazy parenting. And it dovetails well with this pope's 'expect me to punch you if you insult my mother' opinion.

The old testament is FULL of beating your kids, and worse. The NT updates it to 'correct them but do not sow resentment'.

Yay, what a moral guide. The internet is lousy with comments like this one:

Catholic School And Nuns: I went to catholic school and received many spankings from the nuns over the 8 years I was in grade school. We had to wear white shirts, blue pants and a blue tie.
I was an altar boy and back then you had to do the Mass in Latin. You had to memorize the responses. We had a class after school on Tuesdays to learn how to be an altar boy and do the responses. There were about 10 of us.
You were called upon to give the right response and if you messed up or did it wrong, you were called up to the front of the room. The nun then made you kneel down and bend over. She then took a stick about 18" long and proceeded to wallop your bottom. You got hit anywhere from a minimum of 5 to 20 times on your bottom. I usually got at least 10 when I got spanked for messing up. You were sent back to your seat and you hoped you did not get called on again, because if you messed up again you got double the first spanking.
There were times when we were all misbehaved in school or in church and we all got hit one by one at least 15 times before the class on Tuesdays. Then that set the tone for the rest of the class when we usually got it again during class.
I prayed my mom did not spank me that night because she would see my red bottom. I would then have to tell what happened and I would get her spanking and then the belt for getting it in school.

Hitchens was right, religion poisons everything. It can't go extinct fast enough.

[trotsky]

30. Exactly, the whole notion of "redemptive suffering" leads to a shit-ton of fucked up positions.

Ma Teresa denying pain medications to her "patients." Corporal punishment. The list goes on.