Religion
Related: About this forumA Catholic Priest asks members why young people don't come to church...the results are brutal
National Catholic Reporter:He also said there is a complete lack of accountability for what is said from the pulpit. He cited in detail statements made by a priest at another parish regarding Obamacare and birth control. He said the statements were simply factually false, and no one held the priest accountable. He wrote to the archdiocese and not receive a reply.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
pinto
(106,886 posts)
wolfie001
(2,240 posts)Bill Donohue? He scares me off and I'm approaching 55. He seems to hate everything/everybody.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)And so he set up an organization that he refers to as Catholic.
But other than to him and his small group of followers -- and the people who let him have attention in the media-- he's nobody.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)So Bill did not 'set up an organization' he became President of an existing organization. They have a budget around 3 million a year and assets over 20 million dollars, which does not come from a small group of followers.
Here are some quotes in support of Bill and the Catholic League:
“…I appreciate Dr. Donohue and the work done by The Catholic League. I look forward to the day when the work done by the Catholic League is no longer necessary. Sadly, as recent events have proven once again, that day still seems far in the future.”
— Cardinal Timothy Dolan, Archbishop of New York
“The Catholic League has the courage to speak up candidly and forcefully for the Church when circumstances call for fighting the good fight. The League should be on every Catholic’s short list of essential organizations to support.”
— Most Rev. Charles Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.
Archbishop of Philadelphia
“I am privileged to support the Catholic League. The work of the Catholic League is invaluable and its accomplishments over the years are unparalleled.”
— Cardinal Edwin O’Brien
Pro-Grand Master of the Equestrian Order (Knights) of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem
“The Catholic League has done much to ensure that the Church’s positions are presented clearly and fairly. Too often those who do not understand the Church or Her teachings are the interpreters of the doctrines and events in the life of the Church. The work of the League is important in the mission of the Church which must teach the hard truths of the Gospel in season and out of season.”
— Seán Cardinal O’Malley, O.F.M. Cap.
Archbishop of Boston
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)
AnnieBW
(10,427 posts)You don't have to call him out for being "morbidly obese". Not everyone who fits that category is a scumbag.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)wolfie001
(2,240 posts)He's driven by pure hate.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)He's old, he's gross, he's out of touch, and he's nasty.
mountain grammy
(26,622 posts)some have progressed, but so much of the Bible is just mean.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)That's where they're stuck.
To really progress, they have to admit that much in the bible is wrong (factually and/or morally).
Then what have they got left? Buildings?
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)…they have to come to grips with the fact that this amazing, all-knowing, Creator and powerful being--is also a complete asshat. A mean entity. Someone who advises you to prostitute your daughters. Someone who damns you for eating shellfish or clothes that are poly-cotton blend. Someone who encourages slavery, and the physical abuse of slaves if they don't obey their masters.
And on and on and on…
I lost organized religion a long time ago. All you have to do is read the Bible--really read it--to understand that it is full of inaccuracies, bizarre stories, teachings and advise that border on the inane.
Sure, there are parts of it that are inspirational and loving. However, the entire book was supposedly inspired by God. Hardly.
I know that if we are to evolve as a species, we must dump these beliefs in superstition, and we must also stop behaving like sheep who lack critical-thinking skills. I get that religion gives people morality or a sense of community. However, there are ways to achieve those things without following checking your brain at the door.
7962
(11,841 posts)Hekate
(90,704 posts)This gets my KnR.
LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)I was furious that not only did they deny the child abuse, they freaking covered it up and that was final straw for me.
In Switzerland, they've turned these grand cathedrals into museums and activity centers which is a brilliant idea.
I think they should turn them into homeless shelters in the States. All that real estate would be useful for the greater good.
Edit: clarification
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)It has happened before in history, when the state needed money badly.
Or the church really pissed off the head of state...remember Henry the VIII.
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)The national review and gathering of opinions was sent to Rome.
After that, Frank came out with several statements that shocked the adult diapers off of Bill Donahue and other conservatives. Because of the backlash to the idea of considering whether to raise the possibility of thinking about letting the thought cross their minds as to whether open the doors to gays and divorced folks, Frank backed off.
Check out what the archbishop(prick) in CA just announced. Any teacher in any catholic school who masterbates will be fired.
Doc Holliday
(719 posts)I have to wonder how this would be enforced...or does it only apply to masturbation done on school property?
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)it also included out of wedlock sex, gay relationships, and other crap. But he specifically mentioned it.
Some of the bishops, archbishops and cardinals appointed by JP and the Rat still long for the 1100s - where they KNEW how to deal with dissent. Sigh, the good olde days.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)solo, mutual, in a group, in public, all of the aforementioned?
How about thinking about masturbating?
Reading about it okay?
How about a fantasy where another teacher masturbates?
Are they going to perform underwear checks on the teachers to look for evidence?
douggg
(239 posts)that has protected pederast priests for many decades and moved them around to 'prey' on others?
That is the correct word.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)that holds that women are second-class citizens not deserving of full autonomy and gay people are sinful and icky and also not deserving of equal rights.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)Don't forget, many in this country still think that "coloreds" are just 3/5 of a real person. Like that muslin guy who practices squatting in the White House. After all, they do call it WHITE, don't they? Grrrr.
Actually, I am surprised that there are not more crazies in the Catholic church. They certainly cater to bigots, bastards, and the biased.
The church pushed away anyone and everyone who dared question really insane policies - and now they wonder why there is no one left to attend services?
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)mental gymnastics performed by the self-professed "progressives" on this board who are supposedly outraged by homophobia and misogyny from Republicans yet oddly defensive of the same stances when they come from the Catholic Church.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)I wish I knew the answer.
pinto
(106,886 posts)Your condescending "self-professed progressives" comment undermines any point you are trying to make, imo. I think all of us who participate in this group recognize the pros and cons of established religions. It's part of the discussions.
I'm a self-professed progressive. Forgive me.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)you are propping up a repressive system that is anti-gay and anti-women. Full stop. People can deflect and try to shine it up and slobber over Pope Perfect and so on, but there's really no denying that the official stances of the Catholic Church are misogynistic and homophobic. Bottom line, if you support the Church you are also supporting a perpetuation of those stances. It seems that people understand this when it comes to the Republican Party. Yet, add in a supernatural element and ancient patriarchal mythology and suddenly it's: "You can't say that! Hater! Bigot!"
rug
(82,333 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Unless you don't believe it's wrong for either one. Then, at least I guess you'd be consistent.
rug
(82,333 posts)For another, it's a huge, ancient global organization that's much more than any of its parts or any of its particular tenets.
What is particularly obnoxious about this argument, which is hardly original to you, is that you zip out fatwas from your keyboard against more than a billion people without exhibiting a glimmer of understanding about your supposed target.
It's a clumsy and crude tactic.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Objecting to the support of institutions that have official policies of misogyny and homophobia is exactly like issuing a fatwa, which is a ruling on a point of Islamic law. Yes, that makes perfect sense. Once again, your logic is impeccable. Kind of like: the RCC isn't exactly the same thing as the Republican Party so therefore it is okay for it to be discriminatory.
azureblue
(2,146 posts)and you paint a large religious group with a broad brush and maybe a half ounce of thinking. I lived in New Orleans and went to Loyola. The joke around campus was all the Jesuit brothers (they are a sub group of the RCC) were issued a clerical collar and a never empty glass of red wine when they were ordained. The order's tenets were based upon practical works - what you did was as, if not more, important than what you believed. They were not preachy, they preferred to lead by example. They were all very learned, too, and were happy to discuss all sorts of stuff with you. And they did not judge, either. Now how they squared that with the church, I don't know, but, on the same point, I wondered that about all of the Catholics in New Orleans. I think the parishioners went 'yeah, yeah, yada yada, Ok , whatever, gimme my wafer, let me do the calisthenics and let me have my confessional. What time does the bingo game start tonight?' I knew of a Church there that was practically run by a nun - she had been there for so long, outlasted three priests, and everyone loved her. So when the new priest came in, he did the officiating, she made the wheels turn, and we were all happy. And her word was final - she was not one to be trifled with. I can say from first hand experience, the church mucky mucks may say something, but what really happens within each church, is sometimes quite the opposite. The RCC is not the monolith that exists in your imagination...
eridani
(51,907 posts)This prompted one Protestant relative of a newly ordained priest to say "If this is poverty, then what is chastity like?"
hunter
(38,313 posts)Traveling around the U.S.A, and internationally, this is the first things you notice.
Here in the U.S.A. regressive right wing parishes have regressive right wing priests and parishioners. Progressive areas have progressive churches.
And in more traditional areas, the church is deeply interwoven with and invested in more ancient culture.
It's even obvious in our own culture. Does anyone believe Christ was born on December 25?
Obviously, this "Holy" day has ancient prehistoric origins.
On the whole, the Catholic Church seems to be slightly more progressive than the society it represents in any one location. That's a really sad observation, actually. Much of the world is a very dark place. The Catholic Church doesn't own any copyright on evil. Wherever there is evil in the Church, the same evil exists in other religions and in secular society.
rug
(82,333 posts)Every single Catholic attending Mass this Sunday will feel the sting of the condemnation of an internet poster calling herself Arugula Latte. Oh, the shame.
Ludicrous, self-important pompous posturing.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)criticizing the entire membership of that organization and each and every single individual member.
Yawn.
If you tithe to the church you are either directly supporting things like the church's lobbying efforts with money, or you are defraying the overarching church organization's costs at the local level, leaving it more money to lobby with.
As a member of the church, you also bolster the church's credibility as a political lobby.
Go ahead, deflect away as usual.
rug
(82,333 posts)Deflect that, AC.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)a mass or communion where tithing isn't front and center. Call me a cynic, but...
"Expert Insight
Visitors to a Catholic Mass should give money to the collection even if they are not Catholic themselves. If nothing else, think of it as tipping after a meal. Placing a few singles into the collection basket is fine and it won't set you back financially. Pray about tithing if you aren't sure how much you should give. Many people struggle as they feel that they give either too much or too little. Praying about this subject should give you some insight on how much you should tithe."
In fact, Mass can have multiple collections, with some going to specific purposes.
rug
(82,333 posts)every single Catholic who attends Mass and puts a buck in the basket promotes misogyny, homophobia, pedophilia, and probably ebola.
That's the argument, no?
Nary an attack on individuals anywhere in there.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 7, 2015, 01:20 PM - Edit history (1)
lobby in the United States.
I wouldn't have a problem with it, if they only heaped these rules upon their own members, who are voluntarily members of the church. Problem is, as we have discussed on many issues, from physician assisted suicide, to same sex marriage, the RCC sends fistfuls of money to lobby for various legislation that applies to everyone.
As long as they do that, don't pretend they are above reproach for their disgusting, bigoted positions on these issues. And if you hand money to the church, you are funding it, even if indirectly, and yes that can fall within some bounds of the word 'promote'.
Top spender, opposing I-1000 in Washington state. Top ten spenders, actually. All various tentacles of the RCC.
If the church gets out of politics, I don't feel compelled to point out their bigotry. Same is true of any corporation.
Edit: I'll give you a practical example. I'm a gun owner. I practice with and use my firearms. I refuse to do business with any range that requires membership in the NRA for access. Why? Because some percentage of that money will go to a political organization that is hostile to my values. And, the NRA would then be able to claim me as one more person it politically represents. The NRA is just like your church; it does charitable events. It promotes non-political gun safety courses. Maintains ranges. Insures them. Wildlife conservation, etc. It does a lot of good, but it has that over-riding political element from which you cannot escape if you want to do business with the NRA or any of its affiliates. SO even though I have a lot to gain from being a member, I refuse. And I won't do business with people who are.
Why do business with someone who will use the profits for things that are politically hostile to your values? The RCC IS hostile to your values on same sex marriage and adoption, yes?
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)I think the problem is larger than money on the collection plate. The U.S government makes every U.S. citizen complicit in the activities of a church by giving organized religions—the from honestly angelic to reprehensible—tax exemptions. We tax payers, in our way, are supplementing/floating all religions that get such an exemption.
Just a thought.
rug
(82,333 posts)Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)I think I can be concerned about both. And I don't think my displeasure at church tax exemption undermine or minimizes my concern about being complicit in the war machine. Do you feel that any other concerns you have about tax exemptions for, say, the rich undermines your concern about being complicit in the government's war machine? 
rug
(82,333 posts)Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)If we're talking about issues modern people of faith may have with organized religions, then the Government War machine is off topic. My mention of tax exemption for such religions is on topic. And my concern over it is valid for this discussion. We can't simply say that it's immaterial because it's less direct or smaller than the war machine. I mean, if we're going that way, we might as well say the war machine is less a less direct and smaller issue than climate change--which is the biggest issue at all and makes all others moot.
That climate change is the biggest, most direct topic of all wouldn't keep you from discussing the war machine, would it?
My point being, I'm mystified by how the war machine has anything to do with the issue of church exemptions, or how it might be related to people not wanting to join organized religions. Knowing that they're neither contributing their fair share to our infrastructure (or that big war machine...why do they get to opt out but I don't?) by paying taxes, and/or not doing enough to earn that tax exemption (i.e. enough nonprofit/charity) certainly doesn't make me want to belong to an organized religion.
okasha
(11,573 posts)to exclude religious organizations from the 501c3 exemption in a way that satisfies both the tax code and the 1st. Amendment?
pinto
(106,886 posts)There's a pretty broad range of opinion, and involvement, in that milieu. Who has labeled you a hater or a bigot? That should be addressed.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)because even if those particular adherents are liberal, progressive and groovy themselves they are still helping to support a corrupt misogynistic and homophobic institution. If there are no butts in the pews and no $ in the collection plate the RCC will eventually crumble.
And I have been called a bigot or a religious on this board more than once. I don't hate Catholics (or Baptists or Mormons or Muslims, etc.), but I do object to the repressive institutions they are supporting and I dislike their enabling of these institutions. Also, I think there is a difference between disliking someone because they were born black, a woman, gay, what have you, and disliking the chosen belief systems of people.
pinto
(106,886 posts)I'm in and out on line here, so may have missed discussions.
I think it's a big deal for those who ascribe to a particular belief system to support change. Incredibly hidebound as those systems may be, the rank and file may well be the change that's needed.
Don't think we should write them off. Far from it. We should support them.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)and appreciate your tone.
I guess I'd say I'd be happy if the three Abrahamic religions faded from influence all together, as they have caused much of the suffering, war, hindrance to progress, and oppression on Earth in the past 2,000 years, in my view (with some exceptions, such as the preservation of historic knowledge in medieval times in some parts of Europe, for example). Europe seems to be moving away from Christianity while it tries to figure out what to do with Islam. I will admit, if I could wave a magic wand and make those three institutions disappear from the planet today, I would do it in a heartbeat. Just my two cents though. I know it's not likely the Big Three will fade away any time soon.
angrychair
(8,699 posts)All religion, everywhere. As long as the anchor of myths and fairytales, the mendacity of religion, that hangs on the neck of the human race, posions our social and political and scientific development, we will continue to drown in ignorance, fear and hate.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Ever. I don't think I will because one can't defend the indefensible.
ChosenUnWisely
(588 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Someone will be along shortly to pooh-pooh the article and ALSO not answer your highly inconvenient question.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Can't believe any parent does not know the danger by now.
SunSeeker
(51,559 posts)
Leith
(7,809 posts)Glaring in its absence:
What was the priest going to do about their reasons? He listened to what they have to say, but there didn't seem to be any kind of notion that the Catholic church needed to reach out to them. Rather, it seemed that he was surprised that the young people did not submit and conform to the church. He just sighed and thought they were good people who loved Jesus.
I find it hard to believe that intolerance of gays and lesbians was the number one reason for heterosexuals to stay away. Sure, it was probably on the list, as was all the other forms of exclusion. The issue of birth control was mentioned, but that was it. A young mother was confronted by a church member about birth control (who the hell did that confronter think she was?!). Birth control is a big issue where Catholic lay people ignore the teachings all the time.
Never once did the issue of the child rape scandal come up in the article. Surely somebody said something about it in the listening session. It got edited out somewhere between the meet'n'greet and the final published piece.
I was raised Catholic but dropped out between my First Communion (did) and Confirmation (didn't do). Even as a child I was a freethinker who couldn't accept the indoctrination (the hymn They Will Know We Are Christians by Our Love implied to me that Jews and other nonChristians were incapable of love and that didn't seem plausible). Nobody could explain why the Christian god was real and Zeus was not.
Maybe Father Daly could write a part 2 called "What We're Going to Do about It." If he does, let's hope that there's something more substantial than trying to convince young people to shut up and do what they're told.
Sorry if I upset anyone. The Catholics are responsible for the drop in condom use in Africa (and the resulting rise of HIV there), edicts against birth control, covering up child rape by members of their own clergy, intolerance of those who do not follow doctrine to the letter, and I just can't forgive any of that until they change it.
rurallib
(62,416 posts)I pretty much quit going around age 15 because of the blatant hypocrisy on so many issues. This was back in the early Vietnam days and the church leadership said little or nothing about it.
Women were treated like brood mares and little more (has that changed in reality?) - racism was rampant in my day. On and on
In 50 years since I left there has been occasional small attempts at pretending to look at why the church is dying, but obviously there is no attempt to do anything about it. Since this is a priest in a parish, I doubt he has any power to do anything.
While it is nice to hear about Pope Francis and his pronouncements nothing will be done.
BTW - I was one of those molested children. When one of the local churches had a "reconciliation" meeting, I went. When comments were asked for I asked when we would get at least an apology and acknowledgement of what happened. No answer then or since despite lawsuits and settlements. That would be admitting guilt I guess. Funny the institution that preaches contrition can't be contrite itself.
Warpy
(111,267 posts)was after a sermon in which a stuffed shirt of a priest said (among other stupid things) that the only place for women in the church was in cleaning it.
The fact that she didn't get up and walk out was the moment I was the most disappointed in her.
I'm delighted to say she finally read the bible cover to cover and died an unbeliever with no fear of judgment or hell.
hunter
(38,313 posts)She was banned, bouncers at the door, in some churches.
Thus began my childhood religious odyssey.
The Jehovah's Witnesses accepted my mom for awhile, but eventually we got kicked out of that church too.
We ended up Quaker. My mom could say what she thought, people would listen respectfully, and then move on.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)"shut up and believe" their primitive patriarchal mythological nonsense. Don't question, don't think for yourself. For the most part, people did, until a couple decades ago. Now the world is busted wide open by the Internet, and that genie ain't going back in the bottle.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)
trotsky
(49,533 posts)"I just told the truth and they think it's hell." -- Harry Truman
Treant
(1,968 posts)They got the 40 or so who were motivated enough to bother responding. The other 460 considered the church so out of touch or so irrelevant to their lives that they simply never bothered.
Or weren't traceable by their previous address and/or parents. These things happen as well. But even there, they weren't motivated to update the church with their new location.
When less than ten percent respond to an invitation to gripe, you have a severe issue and nothing will solve it.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Agreed.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)cured me back in 60s. I did not send my own kids, or raise them Catholics. My younger daughter married a man whose mother is a "fanatic" Catholic (Mass every day), which turned him off to religion. They not only don't go to Mass at all, but are not baptizing their son. His mother is furious over this, but really nothing she can do. It only matters that the parents are on same page as this, although for different reasons.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)she might pull an "Archie Bunker" and go get the baby baptized while they aren't looking! 
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)but I made life a living hell for the priest who performed the ceremony.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)You would have exactly the same effect doing it in the bathroom sink. A wet scalp and that's about it.
But the notion of doing it against a parent's will - not cool.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)that was quite enough, thank you very much.
I still cringe when I see a penguin carrying a metal rule. (I was repeatedly beaten to stop using my left hand when I wrote) And that is more than 40 years ago.
They were evil, officious, physically abusive, and mentally abusive to anyone who dared ask a question or point out their contradictions. I clearly recall the first instant (I was 9) when I realized that everything they were doing and tell me was bullshit.
MynameisBlarney
(2,979 posts)I find that very odd.
rurallib
(62,416 posts)that there was for previous decades. By the 90s (if memory serves me) the pedophilia was under an increasing spotlight and thus may have been squelched to a degree by the light. Those in attendance were probably kids of the 90s.
Plus only a very small fraction bothered to respond. I am guessing those folks still cared somewhat. Were there some victims in the parish, my guess is that if they came forward they had already been dealt with.
Just guessing.
brooklynite
(94,581 posts)weissmam
(905 posts)in the last ten years and that this issue is not inherent to just the RCC but most if not all orgnized religion
Ever wonder why they have to constantly talk about a rebirth, reawakining, or some such garbage because they realize that every year going forward less and less people care
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)It's like when my nephew was preparing for his first communion. They had one class that the parents had to attend. The priest was quizzing the kids and said "Jesus is our what?" Pause -- no hands. So, he asked again. Then he said, "It begins with an F. Who knows the F-word?"
My nephew knew the F-word.
obxhead
(8,434 posts)Sorry, on my phone so I can't easily copy the paragraph, but it intersting.
People so involved with their religion that they would do mission work have problems with Tue church and Catholicism in general.
Hope this really is the beginning of the end for this savage religion.
rurallib
(62,416 posts)1) the lack of response. They look to me like a dying chain store that can't lure people in anymore because they are so outdated and simply refuse to change even though it is obvious they are out of touch. I actually think about the RCC when I drive by the local KMart with its dozen or so cars parked in front on a weekend before Christmas.
2) the kid who noted the hypocrisy and walked out. I guess it was a nice exercise for the local priest, but that is all it was since nothing will come of it.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)"Hey, you kids. You know what's cool?! Cassette tapes!"
rug
(82,333 posts)The western prism often distorts.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Promethean
(468 posts)Talking about how many people were invited and the attendance rate to the QnA forum.
"Less than 10 percent of the 500 invited showed up. The low attendance was discouraging. It told me that the church is irrelevant to their lives. They do not even care enough about church to come and tell us why they don't want to come. For them, the church is a dead letter."
The fact that 90% couldn't be arsed to respond in any way says strongly that the church's best days in the United States are far behind it.
Fortunately for them, they can still exploit Africa. There's money to be had, gold and diamonds to be taken, and children to be abused.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)same-sex couples the right to marry, and also to adopt children.
Because he's a fucking bigot.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)control as the world progresses. They use science as best they can, but are always a step or two behind.
One of my biggest complaints is that the Catholic Church sacrifices children to abuse to maintain the ideological idea that priests are better than mere men and women. They need to tell parishioners to not trust priests any more than you do boy scout leaders or baseball coaches or weird uncle Jake. But the power structure is more important to the Church than children's safety.
fingrin
(120 posts)For a valid reason why I should worship a man who walked on water, turned water into wine and rose from the dead. Never mind how he hung around with 12 dudes to make the magic number of 13.
Satan anyone?
It would also be nice if someone explained to me why at Xmas where we celebrate the "Holy" ones birthday we have a character named Santa a Anagram for SATAN!
AnnieBW
(10,427 posts)The last time I set foot into a Catholic Church was my mother's funeral. Now that my parents are both gone, I have nothing more to do with the Church.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)and Jewish literature, which has spiritual content in at least a good part.
This
"One woman, a Ph.D. candidate in the natural sciences, said she felt that her questions and doubts about the Bible, especially about science, were not answered. She said no one has really dealt with the "inaccuracies" in the Bible. She said there are many contractions in the Scriptures. "Moses was a murderer," she said. All the war and killing in the Scriptures in the name of God bothered her. It was like terrorism today. She did not see how we could leave out the unpleasant parts and only read the nice things in church. It seemed dishonest to her."
is indicative of the problem that Christian churches in general do not admit to the true nature of the Old Testament or the history of the Bible. The teachings of Jesus are the core of the Christian religion. The woman's statement indicates to me that she has not taken it upon herself to learn or study the story of how we got the Bible. She may be a scientist, but she has not applied her scientific training to learning about religion.
Most people haven't. Most people accept the simplified, magical version of religion that was presented to them as children.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)They should consider backing off on this strict rule against birth control.
It is ignored anyway. I do not see any clear biblical foundation for it.
bulloney
(4,113 posts)of single, celibate men in positions of authority over marriage, sexuality and parenthood even though they have ZERO experience in any of those areas.
If I have a question on something like mechanical engineering, I'll go to a mechanical engineer for answers, not a CPA.
merrily
(45,251 posts)to shun them or keep them celibate, of course. Subjugation and exploitation, however, is just fine.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)"but ... Mary!"
merrily
(45,251 posts)Long after she died (assuming she lived), males who had power in the Church decided Mary should be venerated. That does not = Mary having had power in the church.
On EWTN, I've heard Catholic priests point to Mother Angelica, who either started the network or had some top position in it.
But she's one person. So was Mary. How many of those in power in the Church have been male?
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)And, really, Mary's claim to fame is that the capricious sky god of ancient Judea raped or knocked her up in some mysterious way. She was basically a vessel, which is how the church has viewed women for many centuries.
merrily
(45,251 posts)on the road told her she was pregnant with the Son of God without ever having touched her.
My father would have hit me from NJ to Nazareth if I had come home knocked up telling that story.
valerief
(53,235 posts)
kimbutgar
(21,155 posts)The church was filled. A woman who was the assistant pastor was officiating. She was enlightening, funny and talked of love and compassion for one another. I really enjoyed the service. The communion was a mixture of men and women passing out the wafer and wine.
I was raised catholic and the Catholic Church is dying because they stick to their old stale ways. Here in San Francisco they brought in an arch conservative new archbishop who is against gays and one of his new pastors took away from girls being able to be altar girls now only boys can serve. That church is going to lose people because of the uproar. The Catholic Church is a dying institution. Priests should be able to marry and women should be allowed to be priests.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)and anti choice religious group by cheering for Francis to speak in Congress. Francis is very likely to attack the rights of Americans in our own Congress and might denigrate some of us as he regularly does. .
These Democrats are not paying attention to what Francis actually says and they seem to think he's some benign figure but to me, it's like they are lining up for Pat Robertson and not a bit different.
They are taking a huge risk and I hope they are ready to pay the price they seem happy to pay. If you invite a bigot to bash your friends, you will lose friends. That's not rocket science.
The can't even get their own members to attend services, so what's the gain from letting their chief insult millions who do attend the ballot box?
merrily
(45,251 posts)Orthodox Jews, orthodox (lower case o) Christian or orthodox Muslim. A few enlightened sects and groups, have been opening up at long last, to equal rights for everyone, but AFAIK, they are still the exceptions.
This is one reason I support strict separation of church and state, though the left may have already waited too long to move on that one.
