Inmate Sues Prison Claiming His Religious Liberty Entitles Him To Dress Like A Pirate

[rug]

CREDIT: Shutterstock

by Ian Millhiser
Posted on October 29, 2014 at 1:29 pm

Stephen Cavanaugh is incarcerated by the state of Nebraska. He also identifies himself a “member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster” in a legal complaint filed against the state’s Department of Corrections. According to that complaint, Cavanaugh requested “accommodated status” for this church, a status that would allow him to “order and wear religious clothing and pendants” and to “meet for weekly worship services and classes.”

Oh, and the “religious clothing” he wants to wear is a pirate costume.

Cavanaugh’s complaint quotes The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, which he identifies as one of his religion’s “holy texts.” In the passage quoted by Cavanaugh, the “holy text” explains that “it is disfrespectful to teach our beliefs without wearing [the Flying Spaghetti Monster's] chosen outfit” and that the Flying Spaghetti Monster “becomes angry if we don’t.” Thus, Cavanaugh writes, the prison system has forced him to “choose between angering his God by not attempting to spread His word and demonstrate his faith, or angering his God by doing so in a disrespectful manner.”

Although Cavanaugh’s complaint does not identify exactly what the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s “chosen outfit” is, the Gospel Cavanaugh quotes from is quite explicit about what the outfit consists of — “full Pirate regalia.”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/10/29/3586041/inmate-sues-prison-claiming-his-religious-liberty-entitles-him-to-dress-like-a-pirate/

http://dcs-inmatesearch.ne.gov/Corrections/InmateDisplayServlet?DcsId=78775

I'm sure this will advance the cause of secularism.

[Historic NY]

1. Pirates were criminals best left hanging along the docks....

of course if he wants to press the case then he should expect to be treated as one.

18 U.S. Code § 1652 - Citizens as pirates

[okasha]

8. If I recall correctly,

the English used to tie condemned pirates to the timbers supporting the docks along the Thames and leave them to be drowned by the incoming tide. It's unfortunate that Nebraska has no tidal estuaries.

[Goblinmonger]

11. Stay classy, okasha

How would you react if someone made a comment about someone practice a Native American religion remembering how they were treated in the past and indicating it should be continued today?

Sometimes you even break new ground for my understanding of the depth to which you will go.

[rug]

14. Are you actually comparing Native American religious practices to this clown's masquerade?

[Goblinmonger]

20. Do you actually not understand analogies?

[rug]

40. Do you not understand what an analogy is?

Do you actually think that was an analogy?

[Goblinmonger]

45. How is it not?

It was a comparison. I think you fundamentally don't understand the comparison I was making (or you are deliberately pretending to be obtuse--my vote goes for that, btw).

[rug]

46. Here's an analogy for you.

A cat is like the Crab Nebula.

It does have a comparison.

[Goblinmonger]

47. Thank you for that.

You made my day.

A cat is like the Crab Nebula.

simile
noun
1.
a figure of speech in which two unlike things are explicitly compared, as in “she is like a rose.”.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/simile
indeed

[rug]

48. And a simile is not an analogy.

You're welcome.

[Goblinmonger]

49. Right. And you said "Here's an analogy for you"

and proceeded to provide a simile. Not sure what your point is right now.

[rug]

50. And you said nazism is an analog to religion.

The circle is closed, arriving once again at nowhere.

[Goblinmonger]

51. No, that's not what I said.

Perhaps you are thinking of a different post.

[rug]

55. You're right. Mea culpa.

[Goblinmonger]

58. Cool enough. You had me confused.

I don't often make Nazi comparisons.

[NYC_SKP]

83. In this subthread, I'm not sure you needed rug to be confused.

Analogies, similes, metaphors, and comparisons.

Each has a very different meaning and role.

The first three are types of comparisons, but the terms are not interchangeable.

You have implied that an analogy exists between the treatment of pirates and the treatment of Native Americans.

However, this fails the test as the pirate punishments have no territorial or native cultural component, no racial or ethnic component, and were punishments for particular breaches of the law.

The Native American treatment that you failingly wish to compare in analogy form to the pirate case is completely different, so different that I'm going to stop bothering to un-confuse you.

Go grab a Miller Analogies Test study guide, that should help you.

[Goblinmonger]

123. I fully understand

the difference between analogies, similes, and metaphors.

I also fully understand that the terms are not interchangeable. Perhaps you want to give rug a lesson on that since he seems to be the one thinking a simile is an analogy.

You have completely missed the point of my analogy. It isn't about pirates and Native Americans being equal. It is about hypocrisy on the part of okasha.

[okasha]

22. Yes , he is.

He also seems to be operating on the premise that the clown is actually a pirate. How the mighty debate team leader is fallen!

[rug]

41. He's operating on the premise that whatever sticks, he'll use.

Intellectual integrity is a dim image in the rear view mirror.

[okasha]

21. Last I heard,

piracy was not a religion.

[Heddi]

27. So religions only exist if you hear of them?

So your epeated blather about respecting all beliefs was just....bullshit.

Im pretty sure there was a time not too long ago when Anamism and other native American traditions weren't widEly known, much less considered to be a 'religion,' or worthy of respect.

I'd say I'm surprised by your nastiness towards this man and his religion, but you stopped surprising me with your hypocritical posts about religion a long time ago.

Jury---look at okasha's original post here. She says it's too bad the man can't gbe hung and drowned. That's what this post is in reference to.

[okasha]

31. This is the lamest piece of manufactured outrage

since....well, since your last post. Not even worth wasting a third sentence on it.

Too bad your alert failed.

[Heddi]

43. it will sadden you to know I didn't alert on you

I like it when people's hypocrisy is left for all to see. I like it even more when their lame attempts at backpeddling are left for all to see. It warms my soul.

So sorry, please find another person to blame. Twasn't I. Apparently, though, someone did find your post offensive enough to alert on it. Kind of blows your theory of it not being offensive or nothing wrong with it out of the water. It's okay to be wrong.

[okasha]

57. And apparently a jury did not.

Have a nice day.

[NYC_SKP]

78. Nope.

Oh, the old bait-and-alert game.

I have met a few folks that seem to need to feel or inflict pain or drama as a surrogate for self-actualization.

I sometimes wonder if some posters on Internet discussion boards share any of the same root dynamics as these folks.

A little research surprised me because I have some experience with people diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, and treatments of this condition including CBT and DBT.

I was looking up cutting, or "self-harm" because I know it has been deemed a manifestation of a need to feel alive.

Self-harm is listed in the DSM-IV-TR as a symptom of borderline personality disorder.

Bullying has similar features; it's not enough to just live and breath-- there must be drama and pain.

I dunno, just thinking out loud.

[mr blur]

124. "Just thinking out loud"? You don't appear to be thinking at all.

Still, at least it sounds as if you know what you're talking about.

[Goblinmonger]

28. How about this?

How about you admit you made a really shitty comment and then we can have a discussion about this?

[okasha]

32. How about this?

You admit you're stirring shit and retire quietly from this "discussion"?

[Goblinmonger]

33. Timestamps are awesome

My first foray into this thread was to call you out for the incredibly shitty thing you said.

So, if by "stirring shit" you mean "calling you on your shit" then, yeah, I'm "stirring shit."

You really see nothing wrong with what you said?

[cbayer]

24. Oh, c'mon. There is no comparison or analogy here.

FSM is not a religion, it's a made up thing that is meant to make fun of religions. No one actually believes in it.

It has absolutely nothing in common with native american religions. This is not a minority religion, it's a joke, and a pretty good one at that.

It is funny when people are granted the right to wear a strainer on their photo license, and it is intended to be funny.

Your umbrage is hollow and false.

[Goblinmonger]

29. "it's a made up thing that is meant to make fun of religions"

I have a few levels of thoughts on this:
1. If we get to dismiss something just because it is obviously made up....
2. How do you know what this guy is doing? Maybe he is tired of other people in prison getting special treatment because of religion and he wants to make a point? Maybe he doesn't get the joke and thinks this is a real religion and it means something to him? We really have no clue.
3. The native american religions analogy was to point out to one person that what they said was shitty. She said someone should be hung and drowned in a tide knowing only what was in the OP. That deserves to be called out. That it was only atheists that did the calling out is interesting.

It is funny. I like that you think so, too. It was, and is, brilliant satire.

[okasha]

35. No, I didn't say any such thing

as that anyone should be "hung and drowned." That reading exists solely in your own mind and your tap-dance partner's.

And please teach your students that the proper past tense of "hang," when it refers to a method of execution, is "hanged."

[Goblinmonger]

37. We are going to play the grammar game? Awesome.

But you did say that he should be strapped to a pier so that he would drown when the high tide came in. So maybe you didn't indicate hanging (though I thought that was part of the punishment, too, but I could be wrong), but you did certainly indicate drowning. And it wasn't just a "hey, pirates were put to death" but it was "too bad there is no tide in Nebraska" which crosses several lines of good taste.

Edited to add: Forgot to mention that you said they should be hung from a pier to drown. So it wasn't hanged.

[okasha]

39. So you really believe I said thst this man is a pirate?

Stop flailing, Goblin. It's only making you look silly.

[Goblinmonger]

44. No

I really think you lamented that there were no places for this person to be drowned.

"thst"
Not technically an error, but I would recommend a semicolon between your last two sentences. I think it conveys the meaning you are intending more clearly.

[okasha]

56. Goblin, you're not stupid.

You're just giving a good imitation of it.

Can you think of any reason why I would want this man punished as a pirate, given that he isn't one?

Of course you can't. You're just playing the currently popular game among your little clique, the object of which is to attribute false quotes to people you apparently want to score points against. Do you think this makes you look smarter or more humane than the objects of your smear campaigns?

Here's a hint. The answer is "no." If you want applause for this kind of bs, don't take outside the clubhouse into the real world.

I think we're done.

[Goblinmonger]

59. Then what did your response possible mean?

And in case you missed the point, I'm pointing out hypocrisy.

I have no idea what the particular mistake is that you made here, but I would guess it should be "don't take it outside the clubhouse."

If you want applause for this kind of bs, don't take outside the clubhouse into the real world.

[EvilAL]

114. It's easy to see

what okasha meant by that.
Prisoner from Nebraska wants to dress as a pirate, they used to drown pirates by putting them below the tideline, too bad they don't have tides in Nebraska. Plain and simple.

[Warren Stupidity]

125. no no no she didn't mean that at all.

Just because that is what she wrote and the meaning is obvious to anyone reading it, it is just WRONG for anyone to object to the plain meaning of what she wrote. What she actually meant was "purple unicorn farts smell wonderful".

[Rob H.]

42. You forgot number 4

It wasn't made up to make fun of religions, Bobby Henderson created it in 2005 to protest a proposal by the Kansas Board of Education to teach intelligent design as an alternative to evolution and that teachers be required to state that evolution is a theory, not a fact. He posted an open letter to them on his website in which he said that intelligent design was no more valid a belief than the belief that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created everything. Everything else about 'Pastafarianism' just took off from there.

In January 2005, Bobby Henderson, then a 24-year-old Oregon State University physics graduate, sent an open letter regarding the Flying Spaghetti Monster to the Kansas State Board of Education. The letter was sent prior to the Kansas evolution hearings as an argument against the teaching of intelligent design in biology classes. Henderson, describing himself as a "concerned citizen" representing more than ten million others, argued that intelligent design and his belief "the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster" were equally valid. In his letter, he noted,

I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; one third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.

—Bobby Henderson

According to Henderson, since the intelligent design movement uses ambiguous references to a designer, any conceivable entity may fulfill that role, including a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Henderson explained, "I don't have a problem with religion. What I have a problem with is religion posing as science. If there is a god and he's intelligent, then I would guess he has a sense of humor."

In May 2005, having received no reply from the Kansas State Board of Education, Henderson posted the letter on his website, gaining significant public interest. Shortly thereafter, Pastafarianism became an Internet phenomenon. Henderson published the responses he then received from board members. Three board members, all of whom opposed the curriculum amendments, responded positively; a fourth board member responded with the comment "It is a serious offense to mock God". Henderson has also published the significant amount of hate mail, including death threats, that he has received.Within one year of sending the open letter, Henderson received thousands of emails on the Flying Spaghetti Monster, eventually totaling over 60,000, of which he has said that "about 95 percent have been supportive, while the other five percent have said I am going to hell". During that time, his site garnered tens of millions of hits.

Full wikipedia entry here.

[cbayer]

62. Good information and appreciated.

I knew that it had been devised as a protest, so "make fun" was a bad choice of words. But it has developed as a parody of religion and people continue to use sometimes to make a point and sometimes to just be funny.

[cbayer]

60. I'm not dismissing it because it is made up, I am just saying

that there is no valid comparison between a parody religion and Native American religions.

I've never seen anything about pirates in relation to FSM. Have you? I don't know what he is doing, but he may just be trying to make a point as you say. Choosing a pirate theme is not the best idea, though. Pirate costumes are funny, but real pirates are not.

That is where the discussion about the punishments inflicted on real pirates came up.

[tonedevil]

65. If you don't know...

You can look it up. From Wikipedia:
According to Pastafarian "beliefs", pirates are "absolute divine beings" and the original Pastafarians.[7] Furthermore, Pastafarians believe that the concept of pirates as "thieves and outcasts" is misinformation spread by Christian theologians in the Middle Ages and by Hare Krishnas. Instead, Pastafarians believe that they were "peace-loving explorers and spreaders of good will" who distributed candy to small children, adding that modern pirates are in no way similar to "the fun-loving buccaneers from history". In addition, Pastafarians believe that ghost pirates are responsible for all of the mysteriously lost ships and planes of the Bermuda Triangle. Pastafarians celebrate International Talk Like a Pirate Day on September 19.[38]
The inclusion of pirates in Pastafarianism was part of Henderson's original letter to the Kansas State Board of Education, in an effort to illustrate that correlation does not imply causation.[39] Henderson presented the argument that "global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of pirates since the 1800s".[7] A chart accompanying the letter (with numbers humorously disordered on the x-axis) shows that as the number of pirates decreased, global temperatures increased. This parodies the suggestion from some religious groups that the high numbers of disasters, famines, and wars in the world is due to the lack of respect and worship toward their deity. In 2008, Henderson interpreted the growing pirate activities at the Gulf of Aden as additional support, pointing out that Somalia has "the highest number of pirates and the lowest carbon emissions of any country".[40]
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes Pirates are and have been part of FSM from the beginning.

[cbayer]

66. I did not know that, but it sure sounds like the "joke" side of FSM.

It's unfortunate because pirates have historically been pretty bad people and continue to commit atrocities today. That's not misinformation spread by christian theologians, that's the truth.

Do you think pastaferians really believe these things? Do you think they actually believe in ghosts and the bermuda triangle?

Or do you think this is just a joke?

[tonedevil]

68. I don't honestly know...

what any Pastaferians really believe I've never met one. For me it describes exactly what I hear when anyone from any religion begins to tell me what they believe. I'm not particularly confrontational and I don't like to do things that have no chance of success so I don't try to "correct" believers, but I don't find any difference between religions beliefs and myths. Do people believe that a man and a woman made from his rib were the first humans and they got kicked out of paradise because they ate the forbidden fruit? Or do you think it's just a joke.

[cbayer]

85. I think it supposed to sound like that, but it's a parody.

I think people do believe in the literal interpretation of genesis, while other sees it as a parable.

The difference, imo, is that church of the FSM was purposefully fabricated to make a point.

[NeoGreen]

116. And some of us believe...

...the same thing about christianity...

is was...

...purposefully fabricated to make a point.

Albiet, a different point that is proffered by the FSM, a very different point, but fabricated none the less, or so we believe

[cbayer]

117. And it is perfectly within your rights to believe that.

I don't get your point.

[NeoGreen]

118. That FSM...

...is no less valid than christianity, or any other religion that relies upon "magic".

[cbayer]

119. Who said it was less valid?

Whether other religions are fabricated to make a point or not is debatable, but whether this one is is not debatable. It's a fact.

That's the difference.

[NeoGreen]

120. uhh..ok...

...I guess I can accept the argument that regardless of how debatable the fabrication of a particular religion is, they are all equally invalid.

[cbayer]

121. I'm not making that argument, but you can if you want.

Whether a religion is valid or not doesn't mean much to me and I don't pretend to have the knowledge or insight to make that assessment. But I can judge them on their acts.

I actually think the FSM religion has done some good acts, while I can't see any that scientology has done. Whether is one is more valid than the other makes no difference to me.

[NeoGreen]

122. Fair enough (nt)

[AtheistCrusader]

79. I'm ordained in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

It's every bit as valid as any other fucking religion you care to trot out for the judges to examine.

[rug]

84. Do you believe this?

We believe pirates, the original Pastafarians, were peaceful explorers and it was due to Christian misinformation that they have an image of outcast criminals today.

http://www.venganza.org/about/

[tonedevil]

101. Is it harder to believe that...

than a man getting stuck inside a whale and coming out alive days later?

[rug]

102. Yes. Since you were tagged to post a reply, next time supply an answer.

[tonedevil]

103. I'm not an ordained...

Flying Spaghetti Monster anything or even a follower so I don't believe any of it. I don't think bible stories are any more or less plausible. I do believe that Pastafarians are due every bit as much respect for their spoken beliefs and traditions as any religion.
I Hope that satisfies your demand for an answer.

[rug]

104. Thank you.

Personally, I give all sorts of implausibilities leeway but it's clear there is nothing sincere about this. It's a deliberate satire for a deliberate purpose. Like Billionaires for Bush.

http://www.billionairesforbush.com/

[AtheistCrusader]

105. Sure, why not.

[rug]

106. Evidence.

[AtheistCrusader]

107. I'm sorry, did you just ask me for *evidence*?

[rug]

108. Why, yes I did.

Right after you said you believe pirates, the original Pastafarians, were peaceful explorers and it was due to Christian misinformation that they have an image of outcast criminals today.

Those claims are all subject to specific material evidence since they are all specific material claims.

See how that works?

[AtheistCrusader]

109. Sure. I've got some evidence. There's some in my pantry.

[rug]

110. Poptarts are evidence only of poor choices.

[AtheistCrusader]

111. No no no. Nothing as barbaric as that. Let's see, we've got some Fusilli bucati, and Spaghettoni

some Pici, jar full of Mafaldine.... etc.

[rug]

112. Watch your carbs, AC.

[AtheistCrusader]

113. Man, you ain't just whistlin' dixie..

Got my alarm set for a 5am run.

[mr blur]

13. Oh, I see what you did there!

Snide and unpleasant comment about someone from a minority group whose beliefs you don't share or attempt to understand.
Very snarky.

Civility?
Tolerance?
Not so much.

[rug]

15. Disingenuity?

Much.

[cbayer]

25. Is the minority group which refer to members of the FSM religion?

You know that it is just a joke, right? It has nothing to do with beliefs.

[Heddi]

18. Seriously? You're stating this man should drown for this?

That's pretty fucking disgusting.

[okasha]

23. Seriously? You're stating that this man is a pirate?

That's pretty fucking ..words fail me.

[Heddi]

26. well you obviously did

You gave a reference to the execution of pirates via drowning days past. Then you lamented that Nebraska had no such means to drown pirates in these modern times. So *you* are the one who ascribed piratism to him initally, and seemed sad he could not be drowned in a tidal estuary like they used to do to pirates, since Nebraska has no tidal estuaries.

At least have the dignity to stand for your words, rather than playing the tiresome 'who, me??'

You said a disgusting thing. People noticed it. People called it out. Own up. You thought it clever enought to post, find it clever enough to defend

[okasha]

30. No, I didn't.

That first reference to the penalty for piracy came from Historic NY. I merely made an ironic riff off that, which apparently set off your perpetual outrage at theists in this group.

You really need to practice distinguishing what people have actually said from what you want them to have said.

[Goblinmonger]

34. "It's unfortunate that Nebraska has no tidal estuaries."

That's all on you.

[okasha]

36. It might have some significance if the inmate

were actually a pirate.

But so far, only you and Heddi seem to think he is.
Seen any unicorns lately?

[Goblinmonger]

38. No. I don't think he is a pirate

Nor does he claim he is. He claims it is the dress required by his religion.

Why were you specific about tides in Nebraska, then?

And you shouldn't start your sentence with a coordinating conjunction.

[mr blur]

69. When you're stuck down a deep hole, it's best to stop digging.

Before you just look ridiculous.

Oh...too late.

[okasha]

73. True.

I'll lower a flashlight to you if I can find a rope long
enough.

[Shrike47]

2. Inmates like to sue for violation of their religious rights.

It gives sociopaths something to do in prison.

We once had a guy demanding he be provided a goat to sacrifice, and a knife to do it with.

[Daemonaquila]

3. Nope - definitely an Erisian, not a Pastafarian.

When you have nothing better to do than sit in prison, you amuse yourself the best you can.

[rug]

4. Hey, he's in for assault, not starting the Trojan War.

[struggle4progress]

5. Not all Flying-Spaghetti-Monsterians are criminals

And I predict Pirate garb will be very popular before the end of the week

[tonedevil]

6. Why the snarky...

dig at secularism? This man is asking for religious accommodation not secular accommodation.

[rug]

10. Because the entire concept is itself a sham intended to point out how ludicrous religion is.

The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster rose to a degree of prominence in 2005, after a man named Bobby Henderson wrote to the Kansas School Board regarding their “hearing to decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be taught along with the theory of Evolution.” In that letter, Henderson wrote that “there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design” and that he was “of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster.” The letter concludes with a request that, instead of limiting Kansas instruction to the scientific theory of evolution and a creationist alternative consistent with Christian beliefs, that the state’s schools also give equal time to “Flying Spaghetti Monsterism,” a faith that Henderson also labels “Pastafarianism.”

[Goblinmonger]

12. One man's sham

is another man's religion.

[rug]

16. If that man is incaple of critical observation.

Of course, if that man is capable of it, then he would simply be a liar.

[cleanhippie]

19. +1

[AtheistCrusader]

80. And it works.

[rug]

82. As this stunt demonstrates.

Maybe they should stick with drivers licenses instead of felons.



That's much more pointed.

[theHandpuppet]

7. To be honest, I think any and all incarcerated persons should dress however they like

Being incarcerated is dehumanizing enough. If the true purpose of incarceration is rehabilitation, building a sense of self-identity and worth is part of that.

[Gore1FL]

9. It could be worse. He could be asking to participate in ritualized cannibalism. n/t

[cbayer]

17. Agree that he doesn't help the cause in any way.

[notrightatall]

53. What "cause" ?

[cbayer]

61. The cause of decreasing discrimination against nonbelievers.

If he is trying to make the point that there is religious privilege that he is excluded from because he is not religious, this was not the best way to do it, imo.

[notrightatall]

64. How do you get off dismissing the veracity of his belief?

Just because it is silly, does not mean he does not believe it.

[cbayer]

67. Because I've never seen a case of anyone actually believing this.

It's a parody used to make a point, not a belief system.

If he truly believes it, that is fine, but choosing piracy is not a very good way of making his point.

[notrightatall]

70. So you are the arbitor of "real" religious belief???

Interesting.

[cbayer]

87. This is an openly admitted made up "religion" that exists to make a point.

You know that, right?

[notrightatall]

89. What I or you " know" is irrelevant to another's beliefs.

Do you not see the hypocrisy in your statements? I do.

On edit: the Morman religion was created as a money making scheme . I "know" that.but still........

[cbayer]

91. Whatever. If you want to make this equivalent to a religion, go for it.

And when you meet someone who says they actually believe in it, let me know. I would love to meet them.

Do you think pastafarians who teach their children the tenets of the FSM are guilty of child abuse?

[notrightatall]

92. It seems you have exposed yourself as intolerant of other religions.

That might make you, some might say, bigoted.

I , on the other hand, treat all religion as equal. While you pick and choose based on your own bias.

[cbayer]

95. I'm not intolerant of other religions. Where do you get that idea.

I think FSM is hilarious and at times is used to make some excellent point.

It is not I who is expressing deeply prejudiced beliefs here.

[notrightatall]

97. In this very post!

Here you claim tolerance and then immediately brand a religion as "hilarious"

[cbayer]

98. It is meant to be hilarious. You are really missing the point here.

[notrightatall]

99. That is your narrow opinion.

The religion you find hilarious is no more hilarious than any other religion, and the motive behind the creation of said religion is no more or less " questionable" than any other. Just that some predate others is hardly any sort of qualification.

[cbayer]

100. It's not my narrow opinion. It's the widely held and generally agreed upon understanding about

this. It is supposed to be hilarious, but if you don't find it so, that's just fine.

The motivation was to challenge religion and religious beliefs in a way that was humorous and, at times, even ludicrous.

If you don't get that, then I can't help you.

It has nothing to do with anything predating anything else.

FWIW, I think they sometimes make some very good points and they do it with humor. I like that.

But if you want to put them in the same basket with all other religions, then I guess we will have to charge and punish them with child abuse as well. I'm sure they will understand.

[AtheistCrusader]

81. You revealed upthread you didn't know a thing about the history of FSM, so color me unimpressed

what you have or haven't 'seen'.

[notrightatall]

52. Every bit as valid as ANY other religious freedom request.

And by that I mean not valid at all.

That said, if we make ANY exceptions, we must make ALL exceptions.

[rug]

54. How about Last Rites on Death Row?

[notrightatall]

71. Yup,every bit.

[rug]

74. Under what rationale would you refuse last rites to a condemned prisoner on the night he is to die?

[notrightatall]

75. I would not.

You have misread me sir.

In fact, you make my point. If you're going to do one, then you need to do the other as well. Both beliefs are equal. Or do you feel you should pick and choose you'd beliefs are sincere?

[rug]

76. Then there is your exception.

[cbayer]

63. What is your stance on the 1st amendment as it addresses

freedom of religion? Do you not think that is valid?

I would be quite concerned that if we eliminated freedom of religion, we might also end up eliminating freedom from religion.

The problem gets sticky because non-beleif is not a religion but in some circumstances should be treated as one when it comes to certain rights.

[notrightatall]

72. Your freedom to practice it does make it in any way real.

Our laws give you that right, doesn't make it right.

[cbayer]

86. That was not my question.

I agree that freedom to practice doesn't lend any evidence to the factual nature of a religious belief.

The law isn't about making it right. It is about protecting the rights of religious believers, whether you think their beliefs are true of not.

In fact, it is exactly about protecting people from others like yourself who equate teaching religion to children with child abuse.

[notrightatall]

88. Religious beliefs harm humanity.

You can argue the law until you are blue in the face. But religion is still a detriment to society. Lying to children on such a scale is child abuse. Just because theists have shielded this behavior from the law does not make it any less ABUSE.

[cbayer]

93. Religious beliefs also help humanity, often providing goods and services to the

neediest and most marginalized people in the world.

Have you seen "Half the Sky"? I doubt it. Watch it and get back to me with your broad brush accusations.

Your position is extreme. I don't need to argue the law at all. I am just glad that it is in place to protect religious believers from people like you who would apparently arrest 80% of americans for raising their children in religious homes and who believe that religious believers are liars and detriments to society.

Fortunately the law protects you as well.

[notrightatall]

94. No, that is just good people doing good work.

Nothing to do with religion.

[cbayer]

96. No it's religious people and groups doing good work.

It has everything to do with religion.

Have you seen the film?

You have a very bad habit of not answering questions you don't like.

[cleanhippie]

115. Yet when religious people and groups do bad things you are one who quickly states

It had nothing to do with their religion.

[PoliticAverse]

77. I don't think he has a winning arrrrrrgument. n/t

[pinto]

90. Good article, worth a read. Have no clue to the inmate's intent but the article raises some points

the suit brings in regards to recent legislation and Constitutional issues. Good one.