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Related: About this forumConstitutional Myth #4: The Constitution Doesn't Separate Church and State
The headline to the piece caught my eye. It's a good read. ~ pinto
Constitutional Myth #4: The Constitution Doesn't Separate Church and State
Garrett Epps Jun 15 2011
America's Founding Fathers may not have included the phrase, but the history is clear--they never wanted a Christian nation.
The idea is that the Framers desired a Christian nation, in which government oversaw the spiritual development of the people by reminding them of their religious duties and subsidizing the churches where they worship. "Establishment of religion," in this reading, simply means that no single Christian denomination could be officially favored. But official prayers, exhortations to faith, religious monuments, and participation by church bodies in government were all part of the "original intent," the argument goes.
Because the words "separation of church and state" do not appear in the Constitution, the argument runs, the document provides for merger of the two.
It's bosh: ahistorical, untextual, illogical.
Patriots like Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and James Madison were profoundly skeptical about the claims of what they called "revealed religion." As children of the 18th-century Enlightenment, they stressed reason and scientific observation as a means of discovering the nature of "Providence," the power that had created the world. Jefferson, for example, took a pair of scissors to the Christian New Testament and cut out every passage that suggested a divine origin and mission for Jesus. In their long correspondence, Jefferson and John Adams swapped frequent witticisms about the presumption of the clergy. ("Every Species of these Christians would persecute Deists," Adams wrote on June 25, 1813, "as soon as either Sect would persecute another, if it had unchecked and unbalanced power. Nay, the Deists would persecute Christians, and Atheists would persecute Deists, with as unrelenting Cruelty, as any Christians would persecute them or one another. Know thyself, Human Nature!" As president, Adams signed (and the U.S. Senate approved) the 1797 Treaty with Tripoli, which reassured that Muslim nation that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
James Madison, the father of both the Constitution and the First Amendment, consistently warned against any attempt to blend endorsement of Christianity into the law of the new nation. "Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions," he wrote in his Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments in 1785, "may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?" Unlike the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution conspicuously omits any reference to God.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/06/constitutional-myth-4-the-constitution-doesnt-separate-church-and-state/240481/
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)Deities are not a relevant point in the establishment of our form of government. The constitution fails to mention Zebras, Koalas, and unicorns for the same reason.
pinto
(106,886 posts)And, like much of the Constitution, open to interpretation. It continues to this day. Something I think we should take note of beyond the somewhat simplistic media hullabaloo that surrounds some issues.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)the idea of separation of church and state was adopted. Many of our ancestors came over here to get away from church states that determined their religion depending on the religion of the present leader. They also came to get away from the religious wars that were the results of the church states.
For the rw to claim that the founders wanted a church state here would have to be one of their fantasies that they try to get us to believe. Our ancestors wanted to choose their own religion. They did not want the state to choose that religion.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Doesn't matter what religion.
Eventually, they even let black people and women in, too. Almost an honorable effort, if not for the racist/sexist start.