Church should not fear change, pope says at synod close

[cbayer]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/19/pope-synod-idUSL6N0SE05820141019

Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:36am EDT

By Philip Pullella

VATICAN CITY, Oct 19 (Reuters) - Pope Francis on Sunday closed an assembly of Catholic bishops that revealed deep divisions on how to reach out to homosexuals and divorced people, saying the Church should not be afraid of change and new challenges.

Francis, who has said he wants a more merciful and less rigid Church, made his comments in a sermon to some 70,000 people in St. Peter's Square for the ceremonial closing of a two-week assembly, known as a synod.

The working session of the gathering ended on Saturday night with a final document that reversed a historic acceptance of gays by the Church, a result some progressives see as a setback for Francis.

At the Mass, he beatified Pope Paul VI, who died in 1978, bringing the pontiff best known for concluding the reforms of the Second Vatican Council and enshrining the Church's ban on contraception a step closer to sainthood.

more at link

[skepticscott]

1. More empty words

and meaningless feel-goody platitudes. "More merciful and less rigid"? Ooooohhh...just what the pope-lovers need to hear to make their toes curl, but utterly lacking in substance...as always.

How about putting some meat on those dried-out old bones, Frank? Stand up and say exactly what changes you are pushing for in the RCC. Nothing is stopping you. Prove to everyone that this is more than just a PR campaign...if you can.

[rug]

3. Looks like you're the one having a physical reaction to this report.

[demosincebirth]

27. What do you do all day, just looking for religious orientated threads so you can

spew "more empty words?"

[trotsky]

30. Some of us are very tired of praise being heaped...

on the homophobic leader of a homophobic (and misogynistic) institution right here on a progressive message board.

We won't shut up and we won't go away. The Catholic church, with its teaching that homosexuality is "intrinsically disordered," continues to be a source of pain and hatred against LGBTQers. We cannot forget that.

[rug]

32. Oh, brother.

If Francis married Cardinal Burke and consummated the marriage on the altar of St. Peter's tomorrow, you'd find something else about the RCC to complain about.

Why don't you just get off your high horse and admit you despise the Catholic church no matter what it does or doesn't do?

This faux righteousness is getting creepy.

[okasha]

40. I'm going to say again what I've said before:

If Francis created a female Cardinal tomorrow and the Cardinal's wife concelebrated the Mass with him, many of the same people who are crying "homophobia" and "misogyny" now
would go right on crying "homophobia" and "misogyny."

It's not about rights. It's about hate.

And just for truth in packaging purposes, I'm lesbian.

[rug]

42. You said it better.

[okasha]

45. I think you said it pretty well yourself.

My only demur is that I can't imagine anyone of any orientation wanting to marry Burke.

[skepticscott]

46. I requested that empty words be replaced with substance

Apparently in your world, that's a useless thing to do, and something you feel obliged to answer with snark.

Whatever.

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. Instead, they decided to fear a declining birthrate

despite the global total fertility rate still being about 2.4, and the UN now thinking the world population may reach 11 billion by the end of the century. So the change of a level of declining population, putting less strain on finite resources, is what they want everyone to fear.

[rug]

4. Do you have a factual basis for that opinion?

[Gore1FL]

6. Facts never mattered to the Catholic Church. n/t

[rug]

7. Another opinion without fact.

[Gore1FL]

8. Their entire existence is based upon what cannot be proven. What else do you need?

If we transubstantiated some wine, we could do DNA testing and prove the DaVinci Code false once and for all!

[rug]

9. You'll have to play with yourself tonight. You've used up your quota.

[Gore1FL]

11. I know you can only handle facts for so long.

then you can't even reply with one line nonsense anymore to counter.

[rug]

12. No, I can only handle stupidity for so long.

[Gore1FL]

21. Nonsense. How would you survive with yourself? n/t

[rug]

23. Just fine.

But then I don't spend my time as you do.

[Gore1FL]

24. Yeah. I look things up, and apply logic.

You believe fairy tales and try to be condescending about them.

You spend your time very differently, to be sure.

[rug]

25. Lol, the things you believe.

[Gore1FL]

28. Are backed by supportive links from credible sources.

You respond in terribly unwitty one-lines. But at least you have Jesus and his body-part buffet.

[rug]

29. Heh, credible.

Feel free to believe them.

[Gore1FL]

31. I believe data. I find it works better than fantasy.

If I had to pick a fantasy, I'd certainly pick one where I didn't have to worship a murderer, a condemner, and a holy rapist. To each his own.

[rug]

33. Neither would I.

The difference is I know what I'm talking about. I don't seek guidance in cartoons.

[Gore1FL]

34. The Bible is pretty much a cartoon. It just doesn't have any pictures.

or any other verification for that matter.

Not sure what you are talking about otherwise. Does it involve Jesus re-attaching people's ears or cursing trees?

[rug]

35. Every time you reply you make my point.

[Gore1FL]

36. What point might that be?

I haven't seen you ever really make a point throughout any of our little discussions.

Mostly the most you are able to work up are one or two short sentences.

[rug]

37. Harrdly worth that.

[Gore1FL]

38. I suspected your point would be hardly worth it.

No wonder you are ashamed to defend it. You seem to be ashamed of a lot of your beliefs--or at least hesitant to defend them.

Who did Cain have sex with to have descendants? His mother, an undocumented sister, or another species?

[rug]

39. Uh-huh.

[Gore1FL]

41. Wow! 2 syllables AND a smiley!

Jesus must be proud. As is the Blessed Virgin*!


* Technically not a virgin after her rape by the Holy Spirit

[rug]

43. I'll give you one more.

[Gore1FL]

44. Five syllables and a smiley! That's a trinity of syllables more!

"One more what?" I mean seriously. You neither discuss nor defend anything. All of your posts are short useless collections of ASCII.

That Unless you get all worked up and accuse people of sex crimes: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218157010#post98

Those type of posts are short useless collections of ASCII that get hidden by jury decisions.

[rug]

47. You don't read very well, do you?

Not even the alerter claimed that.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Really? This is the very definition of personal attack.

That referred to his gleeful and frequent posts about child abuse in the RCC. I'm sure you agree with him.

But feel free to continue making personal attacks.

[Gore1FL]

48. Personal attacks? If so you should alert.

It would seem you are believing things that aren't there (again).

[rug]

49. It's become so habitual with you you can no longer recognize one.

[Gore1FL]

50. That's so ironic, it's almost rusty.

Project much?

[rug]

51. QED

[Gore1FL]

53. QED implied you finished a proof.

I'd like to see it.

[rug]

54. Quod Erat Demonstrandum means what was demonstrated.

Your posts have demonstrated what I said. Convincingly.

[Gore1FL]

55. "What was demonstrated" is comes at the end of a proof.

We've established you believe in the unprovable, though, so I can see your confusion in thinking you've demonstrated anything.

Maybe if you pray really hard you might demonstrate something supportive of your beliefs.

[rug]

56. Maybe if you reflect really hard you might demonstrate something suitable for a dscussion board.

[Gore1FL]

57. This is the religion forumn

What better place to discuss hilariously flawed religion we know as Christianity?

[rug]

58. A&A. They have more cartoons and less information on the subject.

It's made for you.

[Gore1FL]

59. I have enough information to stump you, apparently.

It's sad that someone so devoted would want to share so little of "The Good News!"

Remember, Communion is Jesus' way of saying "Eat Me!"

[rug]

60. Lol, of course you do.

[Gore1FL]

61. Is that the Trinity and Moses?

If so, which one is the Holy Rapist?

[rug]

62. No, it's this subthread.

Nice moves, Gore.

[Blue_Adept]

13. Jury Results

On Mon Oct 20, 2014, 09:16 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

I know you can only handle facts for so long.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=158577

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

What is this crap? He posts nonsense and now makes a personal attack, including mocking a user name?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Oct 20, 2014, 09:22 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I like the picture of the rug.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There is an extraordinary amount of rude religion bashing on DU and this is no different, but rug's comment was not polite either. I wish everyone would exercise more civility on these topics.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If that's an attack, you need to get out in the world more and see real online attacks.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

[Gore1FL]

22. Thanks for posting.

I hope the alerter can find solace in God...

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. Paragraphs 53 and 54 of their statement:



The transmission of life and the challenge of the declining birthrate



53. Today, the diffusion of a mentality which reduces the generation of life to accommodate an individual’s or couple’s plans is easily observable. Sometimes, economic factors are burdensome, contributing to a sharp drop in the birthrate which weakens the social fabric, thus compromising relations between generations and rendering a future outlook less certain. Openness to life is an intrinsic requirement of married love.

54. Realistic language is probably also needed in this instance, language which knows how to start by listening to people and acknowledging the beauty and truth of an unconditional openness to life as that which human life needs to live life fully. This serves as the basis for an appropriate teaching regarding the natural methods of human reproduction, which allow a couple to live in a harmonious and conscious manner the communication between husband and wife, in all its aspects, along with their responsibility at procreating life. In this regard, we should return to the message of the Encyclical Humanae Vitae of Pope Paul VI, which highlights the need to respect the dignity of the person in the moral evaluation of the methods of regulating births.

http://www.sconews.co.uk/opinion/40818/synod-on-the-family-full-text-of-relatio-post-disceptationem/

The beatification of Paul VI emphasises this, and that Francis is fully on board the "fear the declining birthrate" vehicle. There's a bit in paragraph 10, too:

The decline in population not only creates a situation in which the alternation of generations is no longer assured, but over time also risks leading to economic impoverishment and a loss of hope in the future.

They seem to be under the impression that a decline in population is happening now. Maybe they're just looking at more empty pews, and extrapolating from that.

[rug]

14. That's more a restatement of Humanae Vitae than a repudiation of the first draft on homosexuality.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. That would be why I wrote "instead", wouldn't it?

What Francis and his bishops agreed on was that contraception is still forbidden, evil, and a threat to the economy.

[rug]

16. You would have been more accurate to write "inapposite".

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. I've been ignoring you for nearly 2 years, because you always derail any attempt

at a conversation that contains information you'd rather not talk about. I saw that someone had replied to my post, because it was kicked in 'My Posts', and the thread must contain several replies I couldn't see, so, against my previous (and better) judgement, I took you off ignore to see if something needed explaining, and saw that it did. But, rather than addressing the specific points that the bishops are making, you write meaningless nonsense like ' You would have been more accurate to write "inapposite".' That's why so many people have you on ignore. As Barney Frank said, trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table: I have no interest in doing it.

[rug]

19. I'm flattered you took me off ignore to tell me I'm on ignore.

My comment stands.

[MellowDem]

5. An organization that relies on childhood indoctrination...

almost exclusively for its membership, and which counts "members" as those baptized as infants who are now atheists, or Buddhist, or whatever, has a lot to fear from change.

[Warren Stupidity]

17. Blank Frank washes his hands of the problem, blames others for lack of progress.

What can he do? He's just the pope.

[trotsky]

20. Perfect. n/t

[Arugula Latte]

52. He's the Washington Generals and those bishops are the Harlem Globetrotters.

I mean, come on, are you gonna dunk when you're up against Meadowlark?