Corbin: I'm feminist, and converted to Islam

[rug]

Published 8:41 AM EDT Oct 14, 2014
By Theresa Corbin
Special to CNN

(CNN) —I am a Muslim, but I wasn't always. I converted to Islam in November 2001, two months after 9/11.

I was 21 and living in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. It was a bad time to be a Muslim. But after four years of studying, poking and prodding at world religions and their adherents, I decided to take the plunge.

Questions and answers

I am the product of a Creole Catholic and an Irish atheist. I grew up Catholic, then was agnostic, now I'm Muslim.

My journey to Islam began when I was about 15 years old in Mass and had questions about my faith. The answers from teachers and clergymen -- don't worry your pretty little head about it -- didn't satisfy me.

http://www.wptz.com/national/corbin-im-feminist-and-converted-to-islam/29115636

[edhopper]

1. So on the one hand she liked the philosophy

she decided Islam represents (though other Muslims don't agree).
But she also decided the genocidal, child rapist talked to God and has the last word on what God wanted.
She also embraces herself as a second class citizen, whatever she calls herself.

Hmmm?

[rug]

2. She couldn't possibly be thinking for herself, could she?

She couldn't possibly have the intellect to spit out that ludicrous caricature you're peddling, could she?

She's simply a woman.

Hmmm?

[edhopper]

3. She has not accepted Mohammed as

the true Prophet of God?

I thought that was integral to being Muslim?

What about what the Koran says about a woman's place?

[rug]

5. Where are you getting that?

Every convert to Islam says these words:

“La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammad rasoolu Allah.”

These Arabic words mean, “There is no true god (deity) but God (Allah), and Muhammad is the Messenger (Prophet) of God.”

Go to the last paragraph of the article. You can still catch her.

Have a question for Corbin? We'll open comments at 1 p.m. ET, and she'll be here to answer your questions.

[edhopper]

34. oops

that was meant as a question.

In Hasn't she...?

With a period at the end it had an entirely different meaning.

fixed.

[cbayer]

11. Clearly her perception of Islam is radically different than your own,

and since she is a member of that group and you are just a judgmental outsider, I'm going with hers.

[edhopper]

37. You disagree that

Mohammad was guilty of genocide and child rape?
Or that the Qu'ran says a woman is under the charge of men?

Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them."

Qur'an (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them"

[cbayer]

42. I have absolutely no interest in debating the character of Mohammad with you.

As I said, this woman is a member of this group by choice. I am going to value her view of Islam in general and Mohammad in particular over yours.

Ancient sacred texts say a lot of things that, if taken literally and out of cultural context, are pretty abhorrent.

You can choose to read it that way or not. But, like it or not, there are islamic feminists, and I would put my money on them over you in a debate any day.

You are an outsider with an outsiders perspective.

[edhopper]

46. Ah

the old, "you have no right to criticize, since your not a believer."

Does this include I can't criticize born again Christians literalists and Islamic fundamentalist.

But you think Reza Aslan, a Muslim, has lots of important things to say about Christanity.

How does that work? I need to know the rules.

[cbayer]

49. Did not say that. You have a right to criticize all you want.

I just am going to take her POV on this much more seriously than I do yours.

Are you sure Reza Aslan is an atheist? Really sure? He is indeed a religious scholar with lots of credentials to back that up, so I do think his views on religion are very valuable.

What are your credentials?

[edhopper]

52. Nope

I remembered it wrong, or got him confused with someone else from Charlie rose or john Stewart.

I will correct that.

[cbayer]

57. Actually, one of the things about Aslan that I like is that I don't think

his personal religious affiliation (or lack of affiliation) is all that important.

I value his knowledge and insights on religious matters in general. It matters not at all to me whether he is a christian, muslim, jew, atheist or anything else.

[edhopper]

91. okay

there is already a thread where i criticized him.

[cbayer]

92. You can criticize him. He is taking a lot of heat from

some people right now because of his response to Sam Harris and Bill Maher.

He can take it and I would love to see him debate the both of them.

But, as he says, he wouldn't really be speaking to them (or them to him) but to those in the middle.

[edhopper]

93. I agree what he said about debate

it really is for the listeners not each other.

[truebrit71]

4. She's a feminist that wants an arranged marriage....

....ummm....what?

[rug]

7. And she wears a hijab. Does that offend you?

Is it not her choice?

[truebrit71]

10. Why would that offend me?

Why so defensive?

[rug]

17. Why would her marriage offend you?

As a new Muslim, I knew there was a better way to look for love and a lifelong partnership. I decided that if I wanted a serious relationship, it was time to get serious about finding one. I wanted an arranged marriage.

I made a list of "30 Rock"-style deal breakers. I searched. I interviewed. I interrogated friends and families of prospects.

I decided I wanted to marry another convert, someone who had been where I was and wanted to go where I wanted to go. Thanks to parents of friends, I found my now-husband, a convert to Islam, in Mobile, Alabama, two hours from my New Orleans home. Twelve years later, we are living happily ever after.

Not every Muslim finds a mate in this manner, and I didn't always see this for my life. But I am glad Islam afforded me this option.

[truebrit71]

23. YOU are the one that suggested that I found the hijab offensive....

...and now YOU are suggesting that I find the marriage offensive.

Let me spell it out so that even YOU can understand it....NOTHING about this story offends me, i am merely posting my THOUGHTS about it.

Get it?

[rug]

26. And YOU are the one that scoffed at her marriage.

Did you miss that last word she used, "option"? Here's a clue: it's a synonym for choice.

Got it?

[truebrit71]

29. Where did I say that EITHER were offensive...??

Here's a clue: I didn't...YOU did....

[rug]

31. Maybe it was the head-smacking smiley.

4. She's a feminist that wants an arranged marriage....

....ummm....what?

I must have confused your smiley with your thoughts.

[truebrit71]

32. No. Try again.

YOU said i found them offensive. I said nothing of the sort. YOU need to show me where I said either, or just admit you were wrong.

[rug]

36. Explain the smiley you selected.

This should be good. Watch out, the floor is slippery.

[truebrit71]

38. Right after you explain where I said EITHER of those things were offensive...

Neither offended me. YOU said that. Not me.

The burden is on YOU to show where I said either the hijab or the marriage were OFFENSIVE...

I'm still waiting...

[rug]

41. Ah, you won't answer.

"No, you first, neener-neener."

Not that I blame you. It's all you have left.

[truebrit71]

44. YOU made the claim I found offense...

But YOU won't back that statement up and then run away.

Typical.

Still waiting.

[rug]

45. You chose the smiley. Explain it.

That's three times I asked you.

Typical.

Still waiting.

[truebrit71]

48. You really need the facepalm explained to you?

You simply can't be that dense....

But I can't WAIT to hear how you got 'offended' out of that....

Please proceed...

[rug]

51. Yes. Explain it.

#4.

Be careful about your backpedalling, you're almost at the wall.

[truebrit71]

53. No-one is back-pedaling here but you...

...or more accurately running the hell away from a statement you simply cannot back up....

And once again, YOU claimed I found offense, and yet YOU have been unable to back that up....

All mouth, no trousers...

[rug]

55. #5. Explain it.

Or admit it.

It really is fascinating to watch the lengths you go to to avoid explaining your smiley, excuse me, your thoughts.

[truebrit71]

56. Eight requests in this sub-thread to have you show me where I supposedly found offense...

And you have come up with every dodge in the book to avoid admitting that you were completely, totally and utterly wrong.

What a joke.

[rug]

59. #6.

"Joke" is hardly the word I'd use.

[truebrit71]

60. Request number nine.

Care to explain why you said I found the hijab and her marriage offensive when I said no such thing, or should we just take it as a given that you aren't adult enough to admit when you are wrong?

[rug]

61. #7.

I hope you realize you put up your smoke screen to avoid a direct question.

[truebrit71]

62. Keep on ducking rug...

You are looking more juvenile and immature with every post....

I know that you make a frequent habit of running away from things you post, but this is starting to get really pathetic...

[rug]

63. #8.

There is a sure way to end this.

[truebrit71]

64. Yup. You can answer my question.

And show me where I posted that the hijab or her arranged marriage were offensive....

The only problem is you can't, because I never posted that.

Your move.

[rug]

65. # 9, Explain your smiley.

You did post that. About as meaningful as what you've posted since.

[truebrit71]

66. It's a facepalm smiley...

...what on earth is confusing about that?

Now then, show me where I posted that i found ANYTHING about that article as offensive.

Be careful now rug, you have no excuses not to answer that direct question.

[rug]

68. So, are you embarassed, annoyed, or shocked at her marriage?

2 used in emails, social networking sites, etc. to show that you are embarrassed, annoyed, or shocked about something

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/facepalm

[truebrit71]

71. None of the above....nor about the hijab

But do please explain how that means that I was "offended" at either....

[rug]

74. That is the definition. You've provided no other.

Not that embarrassed, annoyed, or shocked is much better than offended.

It wouldn't be manly to admit offense, would it?

[truebrit71]

76. So you're admitting that you made it up then, yes?

I never said that I found either her wearing of the hijab, or her marriage as "offensive", right?

"It wouldn't be manly to admit offense, would it?"....that's pathetic, even for you....

[rug]

81. No. I took your statement as an expression of offense.

Since you've rejected the dictionary definition and offered no other, I still say you're offended.

And I see you've replaced an answer once again with an ad hominem.

That's . . . typical . . . especially for you.

[truebrit71]

83. "I still say you're offended"

And there, ladies and gentlemen, is the truth.

Finally.

[rug]

100. Good of you to agree.

Finally.

[truebrit71]

101. Truly pathetic.

[rug]

102. Before your answer, better check in with the coaches downthread for a pep talk.

Are personal attacks what you consider discussion?

[truebrit71]

104. That's rich coming from you...

[cleanhippie]

82. If this exchange hasn't proven that an honest conversation with that poster is impossible

Then you sir, must be a masochist.

Don't be pulled into his bullshit nonsense. You will never get honesty from that one.
YMMV.

[rug]

96. This is the type of subthread I ususually see you in.

[Lordquinton]

94. You've got some nerve demanding someone answer your questions

Considering you never answer straight questions you get asked.

Truebrit is right here, all hat, no cowboy.

[cleanhippie]

95. I prefer this analogy...

All shit, no kicker.

[Goblinmonger]

105. Guess he showed you.

[cleanhippie]

106. Yeah, he showed me more of the same. And a jury hid it.

Fell for his own trap!

[rug]

97. In that case, you answer it.

[cleanhippie]

107. Did you say something?

[cbayer]

13. Arranged marriages are arranged for both parties, you know

I'm not sure what it has to do with feminism.

And there are some really interesting traditions within the culture that provides protections for the women. The way she describes it sounds very positive.

[truebrit71]

15. She wants a husband to be chosen for her...

...but you don't see what that has to do with feminism....okay....

[rug]

18. Why don't you just read what she said about it instead of projecting?

[truebrit71]

39. That's hysterical coming from you...

...Some might even say it was offensive....

[rug]

40. Hysterical? As in hyster, uterus?

Better not get off the floor, brit. It's only getting worse.

[truebrit71]

47. Only getting worse for whom? Rug - The Great Projecter? Yes it is rug...yes it is...

There's a phrase for people like you where I come from..."all mouth and no trousers"....And you prove it every single day...

[cbayer]

20. Yes and the man she married wanted a woman to be chosen for him.

So, where does the feminism come in?

[BA123]

70. Hi, i see what you're saying but...

i think what she means is that as a feminist, she likes the fact that Islam gave her the Option for an arranged marriage. the reason it may sound odd to you and many others is because of the perception of arranged marriages in the Western world. arranged marriages are not as skewed as they are made out to be, especially in its ideological form. realistically speaking, in third world countries like Pakistan, arranged marriages CAN be unfair, but entirely due to social pressure rather than religion. the level of literacy here being so low, the vast majority of people, especially those living in poverty, carry out arranged marriages in a way which is entirely unfair and is NOT actually Islamic, even if they believe it to be. this is slowly changing. Amongst the more literate and educated people, however, arranged marriages are almost always by choice.

True arranged marriages are actually something that is very equal towards both sexes. i could go into the process of arranged marriages in Islam, but it would just lengthen this reply. if you do want to know how an arranged marriage actually works, do ask.

ARRANGED and FORCED may appear to be similar words, but they are not.

As long as there's a choice, does it matter what she chooses if SHE believes it to be satisfying her wants in terms of HER thinking?
Maybe she's attempting to put more focus on the fact that perhaps Islam, true Islam, is not the evil source of terrorism/corruption/women oppression that people believe it to be? i should know. I'm a woman living in Pakistan. Most oppression of women in third world countries is not actually due to religion, but due to the society. illiteracy, confusion, corrupt officials all contribute the misconception that we're oppressed because of Islam. not to mention, if we're Muslim, we're terrorists. I'm a Muslim. if the terrorists are Muslims, why are they dropping bombs on me?

[cbayer]

72. Welcome to DU and to the religion group, BA123

Thank you so much for taking the time to say this.

We don't get enough input from Muslims in this group.

[BA123]

77. Thank you!

thank you! for reading

i do want to clarify the misconceptions that i can. this is a very interesting group, i'm already learning a lot haha

[cbayer]

80. Well, I hope you will stick around.

There is also a Muslim/Islam group, but it is quite inactive and an interfaith group, which is a little more active.

[BA123]

87. thanks again! i will :)

i'll go check them out, thanks for letting me know!

[Fumesucker]

103. Welcome to DU..

You have an interesting and unique perspective for this forum (as far as I know) and I for one would be intrigued to hear more of your point of view on arranged marriages if you should choose to share.

[Android3.14]

6. Just shows that some feminists can be self-destructive

It takes all kinds. That she chose Islam out of the smorgasbord of religions available is sad. Like Anne Rice and Catholicism, I'll bet a nickel she wakes up in a few more years with a perfectly reasonable explanation of why she is leaving Islam, and the reason she provides will exclude the phrase "I must have been on drugs".

[rug]

8. Yes, the only rational explanation is that she's a self-destructive woman.

I'm beginning to understand the popularity of Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris in some quarters.

[truebrit71]

12. YOU are the only one making that assertion.

No-one else. Just you.

[rug]

14. Those are your words, brit. You thought them, you typed them, you posted them.

[truebrit71]

16. Um. No. They Aren't.

[rug]

21. Yes. You're right, they are Android's.

Next time announce yourself when you start tugging on my leg.

[cbayer]

22. Yes, sounds so familiar.

"Corbin is religious now but give her time. She will grow out of it".

[rug]

24. Gender privilege creates its own myopia.

[Android3.14]

86. As does cowardice.

eom

[Android3.14]

27. Actually, I'd say...

She was a self-destructive person who happens to be a woman.

Regardless. Do I understand correctly that you also are a feminist who joined Islam and even allowed someone to arrange your marriage?

[rug]

28. Naturally you would.

Do I understand correctly that you consider a woman who chooses what you would not to be self-destructive?

[Android3.14]

78. Sounds like there's more going on with you than a difference in opinion

It is an unusual and aggressive response to a straightforward question.

I find that self-destructive behavior is something that crosses gender lines and is often a side-effect of deeper issues. If I am treading into those issues with you, I apologize.

But in answer to your question, no. In general, I consider women who chose some of the paths I avoided as constructive and life affirming.

So to get back to my question, am I to understand that you switched to Islam and agreed to an arranged marriage?

[rug]

79. Not at all.

[cbayer]

30. I think you are understanding correctly that the author is a feminist who

joined Islam and not just allowed but requested that someone arrange her marriage.

Your judgement that she is self-destructive because of those things would seem to be born of prejudice on your part.

Do you think that all muslim women who are in arranged marriages are self-destructive? Do you think they can't be feminists?

[Android3.14]

88. Of course not

Islam and feminism are antithetical to each other. Islam, like other religions, has the advantage in that it traps women (and men) before they are self aware.

[cbayer]

89. I do not agree that they are antithetical, nor do the rising number

of muslim women who are speaking out as feminists.

Including this one.

Do you base your position of this on personal experience? If that is the case, I would be much more likely to hold your opinion in high regard.

[Android3.14]

108. Just like you can claim to be muslim

Just like you can claim to be muslim, I can claim that I am basing my opinion on personal experience. Claims of expertise on the internet are meaningless, as a person with an average of 33 posts each day for the past 11 years would know.

The truth is that an Islamic feminist is as impossible as a Christian feminist. Sure, you might have people claiming to be both, but the reality of the situation is that they are bad muslims/Christians violating the teachings of the book to which they claim fealty.

"And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them."

Whatever you say, cbayer.

[cbayer]

110. I never claimed I was Muslim. Where did you get that idea?

I'm not claiming any expertise at all and I guess you can dismiss me as being deceitful if that suits you.

Does my post count disturb you or somehow discredit me?

The fact that you think a christian feminist is also impossible makes it very clear where you are coming from, and it is extreme and highly prejudiced.

Are you are saying that only a non-believer can be a true feminist or are there some religions where you would not see this as impossible.

If the qualifications for being a feminist require no religious belief, I suspect that would make you a member of a highly exclusive group, but it would not make you representative of women in general at all.

At any rate, I see where you are at and I will leave you there. I have never seen someone this far on the fringes make a significant change to a more reasonable position, so I will not bother.

[Android3.14]

112. You wrote

"the rising number of muslim women who are speaking out as feminists. Including this one." Sounded to me like you were claiming to be muslim.

Your post count? While it may not be disturbing, it does provide a data point regarding your credibility. I've found very few super-duper posters who actually know what they are talking about, present a consistent persona or engage in actual discussion. I haven't decided with your credibility, yet.

Of course feminists can have religious beliefs. Heck, I've met any number of people who claim to believe parts of a religious document, practice some of the rituals, accept the supposed infallibility of their God's message, but blaspheme by rejecting the holy writs that disagree with whatever it is they want to justify, whether it is feminism, war, or any number of secular activities. A person who rejects the dogma while claiming membership is fooling himself or herself. My essential message is that feminist beliefs are antithetical to Islam's dogma. If a person is unable to accept the dogma, then the person isn't actually a member of that religion, regardless of what they may say.

[cbayer]

113. No, I was referring to the author of the article.

So you think there is a negative correlation between post count and credibility? That's a new one, but since it is based entirely on your anecdotal experience, I am going to dismiss it unless you have some data to back it up. Let me know when you have reached your judgement on my personal credibility.

It is somewhat startling that you would judge others as blasphemers. I personally reject the concept of blasphemy, and I think most progressive/liberal people do as well.

You do not get to decide who is or isn't actually a member of a religion. The only person you get to decide for is you. To do otherwise is to take a position quite similar to the fundamentalists who strictly determine who is or isn't a true christian.

IMO, it is critical to support the feminists who choose to stay in their religions and fight from the inside. There are things going on in the RCC, the LDS church, Islamism and other religious groups in which women are taking strong stands against long established patriarchal establishments. I will stand with those women and not dismiss them as illegitimate.

[Android3.14]

114. Fair enough (regarding the error)

I don't judge others as blasphemers. That's a simple observation, like identifying that an object is the color blue.

"I personally reject the concept of blasphemy" - Uh-huh. I'm sure your rejection has meant no one has prosecuted anyone for blasphemy since you gained your super powers.

"You do not get to decide who is or isn't actually a member of a religion." - Again, it was a simple observation. I lack the authority for that sort of judgement, though anyone can observe if a person has the characteristics of being a member of a particular religion. Denying the words of the Koran where it says men are higher than women would mean that the OP is not a follower of Islam. Accepting the Koran's words that men are higher than women would mean that the OP is not a feminist.

"The only person you get to decide for is you." - Actually, that is incorrect. Many different individuals and forces control the process of a religion accepting someone into their system.

I agree "it is critical to support the feminists who choose to stay in their religions and fight from the inside." However, a person claiming to be a feminist and joining a misogynistic religion (rather than a person remaining a member) is another matter.

The OP made a mistake, and she will eventually leave Islam.

[cbayer]

115. Blasphemy and the color blue are not the same thing.

Saying something is blue is a non-judgmental observation using a word that is generally accepted. Saying someone is a blasphemer is a highly judgmental observation using a concept that is rejected by many.

I'm not sure what super powers you refer to. There is no doubt that people are prosecuted for blasphemy and I am opposed to that.

Your definitions are very strict and rigid, almost dogmatic. There are as many interpretations of the Koran as there are muslims. Ancient texts are full of cultural references that have to be re-evaluated in current context. Rejecting portions of those texts does not make one disqualified for that religion.

Do you get your powers of predicting the future naturally or have you acquired them over time? You want her to leave Islam, but whether she does or not will be entirely up to her. And I am going to respect her decision whatever it is.

[cbayer]

19. This judgmental attitude towards a woman who identifies as a feminist is patronizing

at best.

Guessing that you are a feminist, I find it baffling that you could be so dismissive about the choices that this obviously bright and articulate woman has made.

Attributing her life choices to being on drugs is really horrible.

[Leontius]

33. Bright and articulate women make stupid choices all the time just like everyone else.

[cbayer]

35. Of course they do, it's the judgement and condemnation of her choices that I am objecting to.

[Android3.14]

109. Not necessarily drugs

It just seems more probable it would be something else, like a fetish to be controlled, emotional problems, or something else.

A feminist becoming a muslim just seems very-very unlikely.

Being bright and articulate has little to do with smart choices. As one of those bright and articulate individuals, I'd bet money that you would dismiss many of the choices I've made.

[cbayer]

111. What choices have you made that you would bet money I would reject?

[cbayer]

9. Well, that is quite a switch.

A very frank and honest story. Kudos to her.

[Cartoonist]

43. What's next?

Feminist embracing Islam.
Brits embracing ISIS.
I'm glad I won't be around to see the end of civilization.

[cbayer]

50. You are making the comparison of Islam to ISIS?

[Cartoonist]

54. They were two seperate sentences

With an enter between them. It would make just as much sense to say I was equating feminism with ISIS.

I have a question for you. See my other thread.

[cbayer]

58. I can see that they were two separate sentence, but they appear to have

been proposed as being similar in some way.

It would make no sense at all to say that you were comparing feminism to ISIS, unless your said something like:

What, feminists embracing islam? What's next, ISIS embracing brits?

which would be a pretty silly thing to say.

[Goblinmonger]

67. Just so it's explicit for others reading this thread

And for those of us that have been around the block more than once with you and haven't commented on this thread

[rug]

69. You've been watching too much of The Twilight Zone.

Or hanging out too much in A&A.

[truebrit71]

73. I know....I should know better...

...but when someone walks straight into their own trap it's hard not to have a bit of a laugh...

[cbayer]

75. You know, it's ok if you think it's a trap, and that would

be an excellent reason for you to stay out of it.

But I liked the article and I particularly like that it drew in a new member who gave what is, to me, a truly valuable perspective on this.

People post flame bait all the time around here, but the key is whether one chooses to engage in it as such, ignore it completely or try to make it into some kind of legitimate topic for discussion.

[cleanhippie]

84. Unfortunately, truebrit got sucked into it.

I hope he learned a lesson.

[truebrit71]

85. Oh I've been aware of this poster's M.O. for a very long time...

...I just thought it would be a good exercise to follow it all the way through to a conclusion, for everyone to be able to use as future reference, so that EVERYONE can see the intellectual dishonesty on display.

[cleanhippie]

90. Yes, I was sure you already understood what he was doing.

I hope it didn't come across as an attack on you, it wasn't meant that way.

[truebrit71]

99. Nope. Not at all.

We're good!