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Heddi

(18,312 posts)
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 05:59 PM Sep 2014

if Christians/Other Religious Types Want to Change Perceptions, They Should Stop Acting Like This

and unlike the other flamebait article, we know these people are Christian because they identify as Christian. Unlike the supposed Atheists who are only assumed to be atheists because...well....because.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/christian-parents-violent-reaction-to-son-coming-out-caught-on-camera/
Christian Parents’ Violent Reaction to Son Coming Out Caught on Camera

During the confrontation, Pierce’s family cities “the word of God” to explain why they believe his sexual orientation is wrong. His father calls him “queer” and a “disgrace” before his step-mother begins physically beating him. The teen was since kicked out of his house and is staying with a sympathetic aunt.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-parents-of-gay-children.html
Question: "How should Christian parents respond if one of their children comes out as gay?"

The difference between struggling with homosexuality and identifying oneself as gay may seem subtle, but it is a huge distinction, and here’s why. God never created us to be homosexual. In Christ that is not who we are. In Christ we are a new creation. Christians may struggle with impatience, idolatry, lust, or pride. Christians may struggle with same-sex attraction, but that does not make them homosexuals. We are new creations in Christ.

So, Christian parents can approach their child as broken people and offer to struggle together through their imperfections.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2011/10/03/did_the_disturbing_philosophy_of_how_to_train_up_a_child_lead_to.html
Did the Disturbing Philosophy of To Train Up a Child Lead to Hana Williams’ Death?

A tragically common theme among the stories is the use of a quarter-inch thick length of plumbing pipe used to hit badly behaving kids; the Pearls call it the “Rod of Reproof,” citing a passage from the biblical book Proverbs as justification.

The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame. (Proverbs 29:15; KJB)

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/04/some-quotes-from-michael-pearl.html
Some Michael Pearl Quotes on Child Training

The Pearls recommend whipping infants only a few months old on their bare skin. They describe whipping their own 4 month old daughter (p.9). They recommend whipping the bare skin of “every child” (p.2) for “Christians and non-Christians” (p.5) and for “every transgression” (p.1). Parents who don’t whip their babies into complete submission are portrayed as indifferent, lazy, careless and neglectful (p.19) and are “creating a Nazi” (p.45).
On p.60 they recommend whipping babies who cannot sleep and are crying, and to never allow them “to get up.” On p.61 they recommend whipping a 12 month old girl for crying. On p.79 they recommend whipping a 7 month old for screaming.
On p.65 co-author Debi Pearl whips the bare leg of a 15 month old she is babysitting, 10 separate times, for not playing with something she tells him to play with. On p.56 Debi Pearl hits a 2 year old so hard “a karate chop like wheeze came from somewhere deep inside.”
On p.44 they say not to let the child’s crying while being hit to “cause you to lighten up on the intensity or duration of the spanking.” On p.59 they recommend whipping a 3 year old until he is “totally broken.”
On p.55 the Pearls say a mother should hit her child if he cries for her.
On p.46 the Pearls say that if a child does obey before being whipped, whip them anyway. And “if you have to sit on him to spank him, then do not hesitate. And hold him there until he is surrendered. Prove that you are bigger, tougher.” “Defeat him totally.” On p.80 they recommend giving a child having a tantrum “a swift forceful spanking.” On the same page they say to whip small children on their bare skin until they stop screaming. “Don’t be bullied. Give him more of the same.” They say to continue whipping until their crying turns into a “wounded, submissive whimper.”
On p.47 they recommend their various whips, including “a belt or larger tree branch” to hit children.
The Pearls recommend pulling a nursing infant’s hair (p.7), and describe tripping their non-swimming toddler so she falls into deep water (p.67). They recommend ignoring an infant’s bumped head when he falls to the floor, and ignoring skinned knees (p.86). They also say “if your child is roughed-up by peers, rejoice.” (p.81) And on p.103 the Pearls say if children lose their shoes, “let them go without until they (the children) can make the money to buy more.”

http://www.christianpost.com/news/setting-the-record-straight-on-gay-conversion-therapy-for-minors-116108/
Setting the Record Straight on 'Gay Conversion' Therapy for Minors

The truth is, some individuals can change who they love, and who they are attracted to – my experience of change from homosexual to heterosexual proves this – and today, I am married to a beautiful woman and we have three children.

But don't take my word for it; ask New York Mayor Bill De Blasio's wife, who was once a lesbian. When queried as to how she went from being a lesbian to falling in love with Bill, writer and poet Chirlane McCray said, "By putting aside the assumptions I had about the form and package my love would come in. By letting myself be as free as I felt when I went natural."

Just in case you were wondering, no reports have surfaced that indicate McCray was tortured or forced into this marriage. But then again, we're barely into 2014, and there is plenty of time for activists to make up stories that go unchallenged in the mainstream media.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/south-dakota-hb-1171-legalize-killing-abortion-providers
South Dakota Moves To Legalize Killing Abortion Providers

A law under consideration in South Dakota would expand the definition of "justifiable homicide" to include killings that are intended to prevent harm to a fetus—a move that could make it legal to kill doctors who perform abortions. The Republican-backed legislation, House Bill 1171, has passed out of committee on a nine-to-three party-line vote, and is expected to face a floor vote in the state's GOP-dominated House of Representatives soon.

"The bill in South Dakota is an invitation to murder abortion providers."
The bill, sponsored by state Rep. Phil Jensen, a committed foe of abortion rights, alters the state's legal definition of justifiable homicide by adding language stating that a homicide is permissible if committed by a person "while resisting an attempt to harm" that person's unborn child or the unborn child of that person's spouse, partner, parent, or child. If the bill passes, it could in theory allow a woman's father, mother, son, daughter, or husband to kill anyone who tried to provide that woman an abortion—even if she wanted one.

http://wonkette.com/511270/charming-pro-life-folks-remember-dr-tiller-by-threatening-to-murder-everyone-working-at-clinic
Charming ‘Pro-Life’ Folks Remember Dr. Tiller By Threatening To Murder Everyone Working At Clinic

The new clinic’s executive director, Julie Burkhart, has been harassed at her home; one witty fellow, now the subject of a restraining order, was marching around outside with a sign reading “Where is your Church?” Get it? Cause Tiller was shot to death at his church? (Also, too, the same guy, a fixture in Wichita’s extremist “pro-life” crowd, explains that Tiller wasn’t actually murdered in a church, because any church that isn’t 100% against abortion is “an apostate church,” and hence not really Christian.)

And then there’s David Leach, of the “Army of God” (because sometimes God, despite the whole omnipotence thing, just isn’t quite fast enough when it comes to smiting those that need a good smiting), who went to interview Dr. Tiller’s murderer, Scott Roeder, in prison, and did a little speculating about how Julie Burkhart would only have herself to blame if — and he’s just spitballing here, mind you — someone went and put a bullet through her head.


24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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if Christians/Other Religious Types Want to Change Perceptions, They Should Stop Acting Like This (Original Post) Heddi Sep 2014 OP
Clearly you have trouble distinguishing flamebait from legitimate observation. rug Sep 2014 #1
oh pot, meet my friend kettle Heddi Sep 2014 #3
Lol, reduced to ad hominem. rug Sep 2014 #4
just because you say something is a fallacy doesn't mean it is Heddi Sep 2014 #5
True. In this case, it is. rug Sep 2014 #6
Both threads look pretty valid to me. AtheistCrusader Sep 2014 #7
Barrir ro Christ dwpoland Sep 2014 #2
Nothing like evidence, Curmudgeoness Sep 2014 #8
Family friends were raising their sons with advice from that book. Rainforestgoddess Sep 2014 #9
Beating children Grannyjaneteliz Sep 2014 #10
Welcome to DU!! gopiscrap Oct 2014 #16
+1 n/t Gore1FL Oct 2014 #17
DAKWSIN!@#@!!!1! Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #11
These are some of the reasons I oppose Christianity period. Promethean Sep 2014 #12
Burn that horrible book! rug Sep 2014 #13
Nah, we can keep it around. I like to learn from other people's mistakes. AtheistCrusader Oct 2014 #18
I always find speaking with you to be educational. rug Oct 2014 #19
I aim to please. AtheistCrusader Oct 2014 #21
I'm so glad that I'm a Buddhist! vlyons Sep 2014 #14
Misconceptions Act_of_Reparation Oct 2014 #20
Jesus didn't talk about Hell vlyons Oct 2014 #22
We must be reading different Bibles Act_of_Reparation Oct 2014 #23
And these folks base their behavior on their religious beliefs. trotsky Sep 2014 #15
Link or bullshit. rug Oct 2014 #24
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
1. Clearly you have trouble distinguishing flamebait from legitimate observation.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 06:04 PM
Sep 2014

This is the source of the other OP.

http://dividedundergod.com/about/

Since you're having difficulty telling them apart, I'll help you out.

Your OP is flamebait, a classic diversion from something you can't or won't discuss.

Heddi

(18,312 posts)
3. oh pot, meet my friend kettle
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 06:52 PM
Sep 2014

'Your OP is flamebait, a classic diversion from something you can't or won't discuss'

Says the king of deflection on all matters regarding catholic sexual abuse, homphobic stances of the Catholic church, the Catholic Church and their bigoted stance on gay marriage.

Now go on, make your usual argument that child sexual abuse in the Catholic Church is no worse than other child sexual abuse in schools or boy scouts, etc. I know you have that worn-out canard saved somewhere on your clipboard. Oh! I know! The prohibition against gays getting commu ion isn't bigoted because all sex outside of marriage is prohibited and so no one who has sex outside of marriage can get communion and the church isn't against gay marriage because they're bigoted but because. ..um...something.

Heddi

(18,312 posts)
5. just because you say something is a fallacy doesn't mean it is
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 06:57 PM
Sep 2014

Just because you accuse others of the exact thing you are guilty of and refuse to acknowledge would make you a....what's the word I'm looking for.....I'm sure you can help a gal out....a...hmmm. I'm stumped!

dwpoland

(11 posts)
2. Barrir ro Christ
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 06:20 PM
Sep 2014

I believe the biggest barrier for people coming to know Jesus Christ are Christians that behave in a Pharisaical way!

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
8. Nothing like evidence,
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:15 PM
Sep 2014

lots of evidence (thanks for all the work, Heddi), to show just how ridiculous some Christians can be. These examples do all the explaining about why I worry so much about religion being incorporated into our everyday life....because you never know if it will be the "good Christians" or the "whack job Christians" who will rule.

Rainforestgoddess

(436 posts)
9. Family friends were raising their sons with advice from that book.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:24 PM
Sep 2014

I had the misfortune of staying with them when my daughter was an infant. They always had a switch in reach in case their boys acted up (one was about 2 and had been adopted from a Russian orphanage, had attachment issues obviously. The other was a bit older and had fetal alcohol syndrome)

So my daughter is crying fairly uncontrollably. It was a distress cry, and I couldn't figure out what was wrong initially. So, I had had very little sleep and instead of offering useful help or advice, he offers his services to 'train her' to stop crying. I packed up my bags and went to my aunt's house. Never went back, never spoke to them again. And yes, she was sick, the fever just hadn't hit yet.

The final nail in my agnosticism's coffin.

10. Beating children
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:59 PM
Sep 2014

I was beaten as a child, and when I became a parent, I did as I was indoctrinated, until one day when my son, who'd done something he wasn't supposed to have done, looked at me in terror when I picked up the fly squatter I used to spank him. At that moment I knew I'd become his abuser, not his mother. I never struck him again. And guess what? He DID NOT become a serial killer or other criminal. Sparing the rod spared the child, it didn't spoil him.

Promethean

(468 posts)
12. These are some of the reasons I oppose Christianity period.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 10:50 PM
Sep 2014

These insane ideologies came from the same book that moderate/progressive Christians tout. These insane ideologies will continue to resurface over and over and over as long as that horrible book is still given respect. Christianity deserves to be nothing more than a museum exhibit with a "Mistakes of our Past" theme.

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
14. I'm so glad that I'm a Buddhist!
Tue Sep 30, 2014, 12:55 AM
Sep 2014

I've even taken my refuge vows with a Tibetan Lama and been empowered by the Dalai Lama in certain practices. The one thing that is the heart of Buddhism is compassion and loving kindness. Jesus of Nazareth practiced compassion and loving kindness. I suggest that you go back and read Jesus' parable of the Good Samaritan. If you can't practice the kind of compassion and loving kindness that is taught in that parable, then you're not really a Christian, you're a self righteous hypocrite.

When the great Italian renaissance poet Dante wrote "The Inferno," he placed hypocrites way down on the 8th rung of Hell. The devil was on rung 9. That's how far down hypocrites are. Very demonic.

And by the way, why are you so vexed and upset about other people being homosexuals? Is that something that you think about a lot?

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
20. Misconceptions
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 10:35 AM
Oct 2014
Jesus of Nazareth practiced compassion and loving kindness. I suggest that you go back and read Jesus' parable of the Good Samaritan. If you can't practice the kind of compassion and loving kindness that is taught in that parable, then you're not really a Christian, you're a self righteous hypocrite.


Funny that Jesus would preach compassion and loving kindness while running around telling everyone who didn't believe in him that they were bound for hell. I guess Jesus was a self-righteous hypocrite.

When the great Italian renaissance poet Dante wrote "The Inferno," he placed hypocrites way down on the 8th rung of Hell. The devil was on rung 9. That's how far down hypocrites are. Very demonic.


If you're thinking the Divine Comedy was an exercise in religious moralizing, you're mistaken. It is primarily allegory for examining Florentine political figures who reigned during or before Dante's life.

The "hypocrites" Dante runs into in Bolgia 6 are Catalano di Guido and Loderingo degli Andalo, knights of the Ordo Militiae Mariae Gloriosae, who were given rule over Florence following the Battle of Benevento in 1266. Rather than eliminating factionalism, the order very much became a part of it, and were widely hated by their Florentine subjects. The order's failure to live up their vows merely compounded the issue; they were seen has having taken their vows merely to ascend to seats of power.

That is why these clowns were thrown down into Malebolge and handed lead cloaks, not because hypocrisy is in and of itself a horrible crime worthy of horrible punishment. Like any other dishonest thing people do, it is entirely contextual. Telling your kids to eat right while you chomp down on a Twinkie isn't quite the same thing as forming a religious military order to exploit centuries-old political strife across numerous city-states.

And by the way, why are you so vexed and upset about other people being homosexuals? Is that something that you think about a lot?


Where on Earth did you get the idea that Heddi is "vexed and upset about other people being homosexuals"?

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
22. Jesus didn't talk about Hell
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 09:12 PM
Oct 2014

He talked about heaven. That the kingdom heaven is within you. And he talked A LOT about greedy rich people and corrupt priests, who fleeced the populace and kissed up to the Roman authorities.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
23. We must be reading different Bibles
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 10:30 PM
Oct 2014
"The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his weat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."


- Matthew 3:10-12

Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

- Matthew 7:19

But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


- Matthew 8:12

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust from your feet. Truly, I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.


- Matthew 10:14-15

But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

- Matthew 10:33


Woe on Unrepentant Towns

Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted into the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."


- Matthew 11:20-24

The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

The Parables of the Hidden Treasure and the Pearl

“The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it.
The Parable of the Net

“Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."


- Matthew 13:41-50


“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.


- Matthew 25:41


And that's just the first of the four Gospels. Need I go on?

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
15. And these folks base their behavior on their religious beliefs.
Tue Sep 30, 2014, 07:41 AM
Sep 2014

Many in here would have us never criticize religious beliefs or even suggest that bad behavior can possibly follow from them. How naive.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
24. Link or bullshit.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 12:39 PM
Oct 2014
Many in here would have us never criticize religious beliefs or even suggest that bad behavior can possibly follow from them. How naive.


Again.
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