Disputes over religion return to Supreme Court

[rug]

Richard Wolf, USA TODAY
5:21 p.m. EDT September 22, 2014

WASHINGTON — A Muslim prisoner in Arkansas, a Christian pastor in Arizona and an 11-year-old Jewish boy born in Jerusalem will present the Supreme Court with three chances in the next few months to rule on cases with religious overtones.

It won't be anything new to the justices, who divided 5-4 on two controversial religious freedom cases in their last term. The court's conservative majority upheld the practice of opening government meetings with a prayer, even when nearly all the clergy are Christian. And it exempted family-owned businesses with religious objections from having to pay for contraceptives in their insurance plans under Obamacare.

Compared with those cases, the new trio are flying under the radar. One focuses on prison inmates. Another deals with outdoor signs. The third affects Americans born in Jerusalem.

All three cases will bring the delicate issue of religion back to the court chamber, along with questions about politics, public safety and Middle East peace.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/09/22/supreme-court-muslim-christian-jew-religion/15520203/

[cbayer]

1. A muslim, a christian and a jew walk into the Supreme Court….

Sounds like it will be a fun session!

[rug]

2. Lol!

They see five white men in black robes spitting in a corner.

A muslim, a christian and a jew leave the Supreme Court shaking their heads.

[cbayer]

4. Ha! Good one.

[edgineered]

3. In the case of the muslim prisoners

the beards should be allowed. Having visited an imprisoned friend on roughly 200 occasions, it is within my experiences that the contraband introduced is primarily carried in by the CO's. We also spoke many times on the subject of what she called jail house religion. There is more to it than I can state now because sadly once again, lunch is over.

[cbayer]

5. This is an interesting case and i tend to agree with you.

It brings up other questions about religious rights in prisons.

I'd be interested in hearing about the jail house religion your friend told you about.

[edgineered]

7. Actual mileage may vary, our visits were in Florida only,

and in three of the prisons that she was held in. Talking about beards and conditions in and of specific prisons isn't relevant to questions about religious rights and jail house religion, keeping to the narrow topic of jail house religion...

Jail house religion is difficult to summarize in a single concise statement, because the lines between faith, idolization of the christ figure, proselytizing, and rewards within the prison system for those of faith are all components. We know from discussions here how sticky some become with dictionary definitions versus usage and intent, so starting with the rewards is probably best. In the Florida system some institutions are designated as faith based. An inmate classified to be low risk and eligible can seek transfer to a faith based facility.

An inmate will refer to another as 'having jail house religion' when that person begins to overtly proselytize. In civilian life on any given Wednesday a few of a given faith may visit you. In other faiths the day of the week doesn't matter. Sometimes it happens at work; it can happen anywhere. These brushes with the believers are usually short and infrequent. In the confines of the prison there is no escape though. Someone who has found jail house religion is always there, no matter the day, no matter the time.

[cbayer]

8. Great information, thanks.

It is interesting that many people find religion in prison. I am sure there are many, many reasons for that, and I am also sure that it is not always sincere.

As you note, there is positive reinforcement for getting religion. I'm not sure that is necessarily a bad thing, but it bears noting.

[edgineered]

9. Saying that it is 'not always sincere' is part of it.

To describe those who are sincere, and not sincere because of prison's reward is interesting.

My friend, who I will refer to as Dawn, eventually transferred to a faith based facility. I was surprised to say the least. She being agnostic at best in belief, and I an atheist had never discussed this possibility. I stopped visiting after the eighth year, so I don't know if she is sincere or not.
.
It is the sincerity of those with jail house religion which is much like the sincerity of many not locked up. Absent from the jhr (jail house religion) is not only the structure of religion itself, but all else except for the public worship of the christ and proselytizing. For them there is no understanding of the functions of a church or temple, other than than for showing love to the christ. A god is rarely mentioned, and faith only when proclaiming faithfulness to the son of the god.

Describing jhr as being the motivating factor for religious rights (along with the other bs) that will be used by the courts to deny the prison population religious rights. It will have nothing to do with faith or religion.

[cbayer]

17. Why did you stop visiting her?

Did it have anything to do with her move to a faith based facility?

I'm not sure I fully understand your last paragraph. Are you saying that the courts recognize that jhr is more convenient than sincere and use that as a reason to deny religious rights? Are the courts unable to distinguish what is sincere from what is just being used as a means to achieve an end? Can anyone actually consistently distinguish this?

[edgineered]

18. In reverse order

The use of what jhr is must certainly be argued before the courts, that is if the assumption of the rate of conversion to islam is rising as a percent of all conversions. That would flag using the benefits of additional privilege through a religious belief as insincere and a way around the system. The prison system is the one fighting this.

On a broader view a potential lose-lose situation exists. A decision in favor of beards may increase the conversion rate. A decision against is a decision against freedom of religion in general for any future cases or cases being heard in lower courts.

A good woman was imprisoned for a long time for an alcohol related incident where the victim was a prominent community member. An example was set with the harshest of unfair sentencing. Years of committing herself to be the best she could bore no benefits despite her continued efforts. Eventually the system made her into what the system produces. It saddens me to have lost such a dear friend - it was not sudden, it was a process.

[cbayer]

19. I again thank you for the information.

This is an area that I am not really familiar with.

I am sorry about your friend. I have known those who were destroyed by imprisonment and those who were saved (and I don't mean religiously saved).

[edgineered]

20. * not relevant to this thread

Today I found a nice birthday card for Dawn. Would you like to know what it says and/or my comments?

Its been maybe 7 years without a word. She doesn't know where I am, and I had always told her that once I was gone she would never see me again. Some deep reflection over the past several days shows once again what an ass I can be. She needs to know that I think very fondly of her still.

[cbayer]

21. I would like to know.

Why did you take such a hard stand with here when you decided to cut off contact?

[edgineered]

22. will pm you tonight, early lunch with customer at noon.

[pinto]

10. I'd love to hear more about "jailhouse religion". What ittle I've seen has a risk/reward component.

I worked a couple of years as an admin assist in a prison clinic, so I saw a very small subset of a very large state prison population. Many of those I did see, usually once or twice a month, would mention it. Some had a positive take, some negative and some a purely "surviving my time" take.

[edgineered]

13. Crying out praise the lord and quoting scripture and verse

some with jhr convey to me a need to convince the classifiers, counselors, whoever that they are truly faithful. Maybe some of those with the negative thoughts are ineligible, don't have the stamina to live a lie, or other reasons. Consider the biding my time crowd as the swing voters in an election perhaps.

The post pivots around three cases before the court. Speaking of jhr is a tiny piece of the big puzzle. It is appropriate to say here and now that I do not swim well in a religious pool. What Dawn and I felt together regarding those with jhr is another tiny piece. I cannot question someones faith or belief, it is personal to them. That part of jhr that is transparent is the lack of understanding of the belief system, praise without religion. I can study tonight to quote scripture and verse tomorrow, but to those who see religion as a group, and faith as personal, my ignorance would shine brightly.

[pinto]

14. Yeah, in relation to this thread jail house religion is a side topic of its own. Interesting, though

Thanks for bringing it up. I worked in an HIV clinic in the prison which is a whole other topic as well.

[edgineered]

15. peace to you pinto, i don't know how you did it.

[pinto]

16. Thank you. A lot of it was positive, forward looking. A transitional program for parolees.

So a lot of it was about putting the nuts and bolts together for services outside the prison setting. Making the pieces fit as well as we could finagle. Stuff I liked and had a bit of a knack for.

Yet, I was glad to leave. The system can be overwhelming.

[rug]

6. I agree. Often harassment is disguised by invoking security.

[edgineered]

11. Passing through the inspection prior to entering VP

VP (visitors park) is fairly thorough. There are items that can enter the prisons through visits, there are items that cannot. My mouth isn't big enough to hide a box of 24 pastel pencils in. Items enter the prisons via the staff for the most part. Prisoners going to the bathroom are searched going in and coming out. They are searched before entering VP and they are searched leaving. Those in authority know this. On Saturday I will be visiting someone close to me who retired from being a counselor for the system. Our observations are striking similar.

For one thing, the working environment for the staff is horrible. No sane, caring person can emotionally endure the abuses. A new staff member either becomes one with the system or quits. This makes promotions in the system available only to those with the seniority to qualify for them. Its a sad way to treat people on both sides of the bars.

[pinto]

12. Interesting cases. I've followed some of the Muslim prisoner's petition.

The others I'm unfamiliar with.

The petition filed by Gregory Holt, also known as Abdul Maalik Muhammad, would seem to have some broader scope beyond Muslim religious customs specifically. Sikhs, Hassidic Jews and some Amish have similar tenets that are followed as part of their religious observances.