Supernatural 'Jinn' Seen as Cause of Mental Illness Among Muslims

[SecularMotion]

It may be common for psychiatric patients who are Muslim to attribute their hallucinations or other symptoms to "jinn," the invisible, devilish creatures in Islamic mythology, researchers in the Netherlands have found.

The findings demonstrate one way in which culture may influence how people perceive their psychotic symptoms, and could help Western psychiatrists better understand patients who have an Islamic background.

Moreover, in today's connected world, patients may fuse the symbols from their own backgrounds with those of other cultures to explain their symptoms, study leader Dr. Jan Dirk Blom, an assistant professor of psychiatry at the University of Groningen, told Live Science.

In Islamic mythology, Jinn, or djinn, are supernatural creatures made of smokeless fire. They are frequently found in Islamic folklore and are mentioned in the Quran, the religious text of Islam. Historically, they are portrayed as menacing creatures that can harm humans, or drive them mad. People in Muslim societies have traditionally seen jinn as the cause of mental illness and neurological diseases, especially epilepsy.

http://news.yahoo.com/supernatural-jinn-seen-cause-mental-illness-among-muslims-144242552.html

[longship]

1. I think it is spelled "djinn"

In popular culture it would be genie. One wonders whether Barbara Eden would approve.

[kentauros]

27. Sure she would,

because of the "Blue Djinn"

My understanding of the word is that it can be both "jinn" and "djinn." "Djinn" is normally plural, though the plural can be spelled "djinns." "Djinni" and "Jinni" is always singular

[longship]

28. Cool. Thanks for the explanation.

[kentauros]

29. No problem!

(I can thank I Dream of Jeannie and a long-held interest in Arabic folk tales for my tidbit knowledge.)

[okasha]

34. Are you familiar with Judith Tarr's novels?

Some of them include djinni and offspring of djinni as principal characters.

[kentauros]

35. No, I haven't heard of her.

I'll look her up, and bookmark what I find. Thanks for mentioning her name and genre

To be totally honest, I don't read much fiction any more. I have some free science-fiction anthologies I downloaded from Baen Books that I am slowly reading. It's all short stories for the most part, and Golden Age science-fiction. Thus, lots of 'bad' science yet still enjoyable stories

I figure I'll read more within the genres I write after I've written something that people can see and buy

[AtheistCrusader]

2. A song comes to mind.

"No cowering in the dark before some overbearing priest
No waiting until we die, until we restitute the meek
No blaming all our failings on imaginary beast
Because there never was no God

No fighting over land your distant fathers told you of
No spilling blood for those who never spread a drop of love
No finger pointing justified by phantoms up above
Because there never was no God"

[cbayer]

7. Do you see psychiatric illnesses as failings? nt.

[AtheistCrusader]

8. Quick! To the Bat Thesaurus!

Synonyms Expand

1. blemish; frailty, shortcoming. Fault, failing, foible, weakness, vice imply shortcomings or imperfections in a person. Fault is the common word used to refer to any of the average shortcomings of a person; when it is used, condemnation is not necessarily implied: "Of his many faults the greatest is vanity."Foible, failing, weakness all tend to excuse the person referred

Keeping in mind that condemnation is not implied, yes, they can be, sadly. I have witnessed such illnesses utterly destroy some very wonderful humans. And I do mean destroy. Not in the colloquial sense. I mean dead.

So yes, I think 'can be' is an appropriate answer, within scope, and keeping in mind it is not accompanied with blame or derision.

[cbayer]

9. So you see psychiatric illness as a blemish, frailty, shortcoming, fault, failing, foible,

weakness?

You have seen these illness literally destroy people, and you maintain that they are these things?

Did you invoke a lot of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" support?

It is most certainly accompanied by blame. Shame.

[AtheistCrusader]

10. You have an unreasonable fondness for negative connotation that I am not using.

Your bootstraps question is actually highly offensive. I am not a fucking monster.

Edit: Copy/paste chopped off part of the thesaurus's content. It is relevant to my position.

"Foible, failing, weakness all tend to excuse the person referred to. Of these foible is the mildest, suggesting a weak point that is slight and often amusing, manifesting itself in eccentricity rather than in wrongdoing: "the foibles of artists."Weakness suggests that the person in question is unable to control a particular impulse, and gives way to self-indulgence: "a weakness for pretty women."Failing is closely akin to fault, except that it is particularly applied to humanity at large, suggesting common, often venial, shortcomings: "Procrastination and making excuses are common failings."Vice (which may also apply to a sin in itself, apart from a person: "the vice of gambling&quot is the strongest term, and designates a habit that is truly detrimental or evil. "

[cbayer]

11. Monster? Who in the world called you a monster.

You have now made multiple posts indicating that you see psychiatric illness as a personal failing, a shortcoming, a self-indulgent state, a weakness.

You seem to equate it to procrastination and making excuses, if I can go by what you choose to bold.

And then you go to vice?

You are really not making this any better.

Why don't you just tell me in your own words how you see psychiatric illness.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. You are amazing.

You read into the bits I didn't bold in an effort to smear me. Simply amazing. What the blue fuck do you think I bolded the relevant piece for? So you could ignore it and hit me with the shit I DID NOT SAY? Astounding.

You asked : "Did you invoke a lot of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" support?"

I would consider that a monstrous thing to do to someone. I have gone to great lengths to accommodate and aid people going through various psychological issues. Hell, I safely stored a close friend's firearms for over a decade, at his request after he experienced suicidal thoughts and began treatment. Whatever I can do, I have done to help. Not once have I tossed out some bootstrap, cheer up, you'll be fine, insulting bullshit to someone going through depression or any number of other psychological issues.

Not ONCE, not even when I was an ignorant teen, unaware of the realities of psychological issues, did I ever do that to anyone.

[cbayer]

13. Thanks! But you don't need to flatter me.

I'm not trying to smear you, I'm trying to get you to be clear about what you said.

So, I ask you again, please put in your own words what you think about psychiatric illnesses and those that suffer from them. Taking someone's weapons when they are suicidal is a good thing and not always easy. You deserve credit for that.

But I don't know what you mean by "accommodate" and I am still not sure that you don't see it as some kind of personal failing.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. When why did you bing up 'vice'?

It is wildly inappropriate in this context. Should I have not offered the complete paragraph? What did you think the bold was for?

Things break. It happens. I would no more blame a human for a psychological issue than I would my car for a flat tire or a thrown rod. (ignoring that some psychological issues can be a very grey area that doesn't reflect a Boolean working/broken dichotomy. Not adding nuance because every time I do, it gets taken in the precise opposite way I meant it.)

I don't get angry for a fault in a circuit. I do not blame the device. Like it chose to short.


Personal failing implies blame. Implies a choice, however bad. Not once have I suggested that. The very first response I made to you included the specification that it is not "condemnation is not necessarily implied". On accommodate, taking in people as roommates, helping them in any manner they would accept. Not freaking out or rejecting them over various episodes, or uncomfortable situations.

It is not radically different from my approach to grief for others, creating space and time for them to work through it. I can't do it for you, but I can help contribute to an environment in which you feel comfortable and safe during treatment, etc.

[cbayer]

16. Well, that all sounds good and I am glad to see that is your position.

So maybe next time don't post a song in a thread that could be read as calling psychiatric illness a "failing".

[AtheistCrusader]

17. I cannot control what tone you ascribe to a word.

I maintain the word is correct within the context I meant it.

I am disappointed that it required more than one response to clarify my meaning, given the specifications of that post.

[cbayer]

18. Disappointed? In yourself or in me?

Perhaps there is no need for disappointment when the goal is clarification.

[AtheistCrusader]

19. In that I had to repeat myself, and defend myself from unwarranted accusations.

My first clarification specified, even with the copy-paste chop-off:

"Foible, failing, weakness all tend to excuse the person referred"

Meaning, not a personal failing. Why I had to clarify beyond that, and why you came back with Vice, etc, is incredibly disappointing.

[cbayer]

20. So would that be disappointment in yourself for not being clear

and precipitating "unwarranted accusations" or in me for not understanding you?

Look this is not a game you have to win or lose. Things are not always clearly understood in real life, and even more so on the internet. My history with you leads me to make assumptions. They are not always correct and sometimes you clarify.

You had to clarify because it was not clear to me. Incredibly disappointing? I doubt it.

IMO, that's a tool you use.

[AtheistCrusader]

21. I could not be more clear than the bold highlight in post 10.

Sorry. Not without redacting information that would rob it of its context as a dictionary publication.

I have asked repeatedly and not received an answer; what did you think the bold typeface was for if not the relevant information to my point?

[cbayer]

22. So I'm just too dense to see it?

I don't give a shit about the bold typeface. I am glad that you clarified your position.

You want the point? You got it. Give me an update on the score when you get a chance.

And get some fucking sleep, for god's sake.

[AtheistCrusader]

30. Re-visiting this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218150036#post15

I think I see now why you reacted strongly to that association. I didn't intend it that way, again, I was using the word in the other context, but now I think I understand what happened here, as, IIRC, this subject is relevant to your professional field.

[cbayer]

32. Thanks for that. I think we both may have over-reacted, but

you are correct that this is an area where I tend to really get up in arms.

[edhopper]

3. Do they

use exorcism as some Christians use to fight demons? An accepted practice in the West.

[trotsky]

5. Accepted and officially endorsed by the largest Christian church in the world. n/t

[samsingh]

4. maybe its brain chemistry and environment

[cbayer]

6. Every culture has had ways of trying to understand psychiatric illness that

are unique. Much of this is linked to mythology and it is no more than an attempt to explain the unexplainable.

I hope that we will someday get to the point that we understand that psychiatric illnesses are no different than other kinds of illness and we treat those who suffer with the respect and dignity they deserve.

In the meantime, any information that will help professionals deal with those from other cultures who have different ways of understanding these illnesses will most likely benefit the patients.

What do you think about this? Certainly you did not mean for this to mock Muslims?

[Silent3]

15. Those aren't djinn, they're thetans! n/t

[rug]

23. It's a poor headline.

It may be common for psychiatric patients who are Muslim to attribute their hallucinations or other symptoms to "jinn"

There's a big difference.

It's much less likely a psychotic Muslim would hallucinate Napoleon than he would a jinn.

[MellowDem]

24. And that's what one would expect...

Of a dogma passed primarily through childhood indoctrination. People's supernatural experiences being explained by what they know and not by any objective experience across all cultures.

[rug]

25. None of which rehabilitates the assertion that Muslims think mental illness is caused by genies.

[AtheistCrusader]

31. Ahem: SOME, not all.

"None of which rehabilitates the assertion that Muslims think mental illness is caused by genies."

I'd inject the word 'some' in there somewhere.

[procon]

26. Exactly

Christian dogma still holds that demons can control people and that an exorcism is the proper cure.

Religious charlatans, hucksters and mountebanks -- the lot of 'em.

[NeoGreen]

33. Jinns...and Fairies...

'Don't you like it here?'

'I hate it here. Present company excepted.'

'Why so, mate?'

'I always been in cities, and I hate the country. And the desert is ten times far worse than the country.'

'Lions and tigers, maybe?'

'Worse, mate.'

'Serpents?'

The odabashi shook his head, and leaning towards them he whispered
'Jinns and ghouls.'

'What are jinns?' asked the bosun, somewhat shocked.

'Fairies,' said the odabashi, after a moment's consideration.

'You don't believe in fairies, do you?'

'What, not when I seen a fucking great fairy in the old tower over there? This high,?' Holding his hand a yard from the ground. 'with long ears and orange eyes? In the night it goes Uhu, uhu, and every time some poor unfortunate bugger cops it somewhere or other. No worse omen in this mortal world. I've heard it almost every night the last week and more.' He paused, and then said 'I didn't ought to have said fairies. Spirits is more like. Unholy ghosts.'

'Oh,' said the bosun, who might scorn fairies, but who, like most sailors and certainly all his shipmates in the Surprise, most heartily believed in ghosts and spirits.

'And what are ghouls?' asked the gunner in a low, almost furtive voice, dreading to hear yet drawing his bag closer.

'Ho, they are far, far worse,' said the odabashi. 'They often take the shape of young females, but the insides of their mouths are green, like their eyes. You see them walking about in graveyards sometimes, and after dark they dig up the fresh corpses and eat them. Ay, and not always so fresh, either. But they take all sorts of shapes, like the jinns, and you meet them both at every turn in this bloody desert we got to walk across. The only thing to do is to say transiens per medium illorum ibat very quick without a mistake or you're . . .'

At this time of night throughout the fast the castle cooks flung the bony remains of their feast over the outer wall; and now the jackals were ready waiting. But once again they fell foul of the hyaena and four more of her kind, and the odabashi's words were cut off by a sudden Bedlam of screaming, howling and terrible laughter not twenty yards away. The Surprise's warrant-officers leapt to their feet, grasping one another; and as they stood there aghast a heavy body landed on the pole above them. A moment later its enormous voice filled the tent: Uhu, uhu, uhu.

From Treason's Harbor
Page 80
Patrick O'Brian