De Blasio’s Prekindergarten Expansion Collides With Church-State Divide

[cbayer]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/nyregion/de-blasios-pre-k-push-bumps-up-against-church-state-divide.html?_r=0

By SHARON OTTERMANAUG. 4, 2014


Children at St. Lucy’s School in the Bronx attended a summer program in July. St. Lucy’s will offer six publicly funded pre-k classes in the fall. Credit Ángel Franco/The New York Times

The biblical story of Noah’s Ark will be taught, without mention of who told Noah to build it. Challah, the Jewish bread eaten on the Sabbath, will be baked, but no blessings said over it. Some crucifixes will be removed, but others left hanging.

These are the kinds of church-state gymnastics that New York City and some religious schools are performing as Mayor Bill de Blasio expands government-funded prekindergarten. Because of inadequate public school capacity, the de Blasio administration has been urging religious schools and community organizations to consider hosting the added programs.

But the push is raising fresh questions for civil libertarians concerned about church-state issues, and for the schools themselves, which want to help the city and qualify for its roughly $10,000-per-student tuition payments while preserving some of the faith-based elements that attract their main clientele.

The concerns crystallized in a one-page document the city issued in May to religious schools weighing whether to host full-day prekindergarten classes. Rather than state simply, as other municipalities have, that all religious instruction is prohibited, the city’s guidelines say that religious texts may be taught if they are “presented objectively as part of a secular program of instruction.” Learning about one’s culture is permitted, city officials say, but religious instruction is not.

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[Silent3]

1. When I was in the second grade, I went to public school classes at a Catholic church.

At that age it never occurred to me to consider how very strange and inappropriate that was. It was in the same church my family attended, in a set of classrooms that were part of the larger church building, classrooms that I suppose were probably intended for catechism.

As I recall, religious symbols and banners and slogans were left on display while the public school classes were in session.

Now that I think about it, I think some of my catechism classes were held in borrowed public school classrooms too.

[cbayer]

5. I have never heard of that.

Was it temporary while they were building an actual school?

I've heard of churches being used for things like voting, but not schools.

These new kindergarten programs do bump up against that, though.

[pinto]

2. That's a real fine line. The faith-based hiring guidelines for teachers are discriminatory, imo.

[hrmjustin]

3. The private schools can do the best they can to accommodate the city but the city must remember

they are guests.

Both sides will have to make comprimises.

[hrmjustin]

4. I am going to repost in the NY room.

[libodem]

6. I think religious education

Is part of social education. It is a part of our collective civilization. We do well to have a good understanding of customs and tradition among all people.

Makes me think of, Oh Brother where art Thou, when that guy went on and on about his culture and heritage. It is good to understand and have tolerance for all religion and lack there of.

[cbayer]

7. I agree with you and think it's particularly important in this country

where there are so many different groups and so much prejudice. And I think it ought to include information on non-believers, both historical and current.

But it's often a fine line between religious education and religious teaching, for lack of a better term. There are many with religious agendas, and serious oversight of these programs is called for.

[libodem]

8. I think the trick is not to endorse

Any certain religion. Teach an overview of each.You need to know this stuff or you can never be a champion at Jeopardy. Joking. It is a part of our common humanity.

[cbayer]

9. And education builds understanding and tolerance.

I think that kids should have a basic understanding of many religions and of atheism. Not endorsing any particular religion is key, of course.

Every kid in the US ought to have the opportunity to be on Jeopardy!

[libodem]

10. Yeah baby

Now, we're talking!