Republicans confuse “Atlas Shrugged” for the Bible

[cbayer]

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/14/republicans_confuse_atlas_shrugged_for_the_bible_partner/

MONDAY, JUL 14, 2014 07:31 PM CEST

A new poll suggests a majority of party members think Jesus would have denounced universal healthcare


CJ WERLEMAN, ALTERNET


This article originally appeared on AlterNet.

Do you recall the part in the Bible where Jesus healed the leper, the blind, and raised Lazarus from the dead? I do. Apparently, Republicans remember those three respective biblical stories a little differently. According to a new YouGov poll, Republican Jesus did indeed heal the leper, the blind, and a dead man, but only after he asked each for a co-pay.

The poll was conducted July 1-2 among 1,000 U.S. adults using a sample selected from YouGov’s opt-in online panel to match the demographics and other characteristics of the adult U.S. population. On a wide range of political issues, from healthcare to gun control, from raising taxes on the rich to climate change, respondents were asked what would Jesus support or oppose.

According to the results of the poll, a majority of Democrats and independents have read the same version of Christianity’s Holy Book as I. For Republicans, however, it appears that, once again, they’ve conflated Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged with the Bible.

Eighty percent of Democrats and 52 percent of independents said Jesus would support universal healthcare. Indeed it’s hard to imagine Jesus would deny care to those who lack the financial means to enjoy the comfort of our for-profit capitalist healthcare industry. But that’s not the Jesus Republicans know. Only 23 percent of Republicans believe Jesus would support healthcare for all.

more at link

[AgingAmerican]

1. The anti-Christians

nt

[Enthusiast]

3. They know less of the bible than atheists.

Seriously.

[trotsky]

7. Actually...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/09/28/130191248/atheists-and-agnostics-know-more-about-bible-than-religious

[trotsky]

8. It doesn't help to push a false meme like that.

They are Christians too - that's what they consider themselves. They just pick and choose different parts of the bible to believe literally.

[AgingAmerican]

24. They push the opposite of Christianity

Greed, hate, all the bad stuff. They are anti-Christians IMHO.

[cleanhippie]

28. How can it be "the opposite of Christianity" if they use the same source material

As all other Christians?

[AgingAmerican]

29. Because

They mix Christianity with GOP talking points/ideology. All other Christians don't mix GOP talking points with their religion. These anti-Christians don't know where the right wing talking points end and the Christianity begins. It's all one in the same to them.

[trotsky]

30. Oh but it's OK to mix Christianity with Democratic ideology, because that's what you believe.

Got it.

[AgingAmerican]

38. Why are you so upset by this?

I had this shit hammered into me when I was a kid. And, no, there was no co-pay exacted by Jesus in the bible when he healed people. Nor does it say anywhere in the bible that Jesus was against universal healthcare or for building a fence to keep abused immigrant children out of the country. Those things are right wing talking points. They are not addressed in aforementioned bible, sorry.

[trotsky]

40. I'm not upset by it, I just think it's hypocritical to criticize the right wing for...

mixing religion & politics if we're going to say it's OK for the left to do it.

Please note, Jesus didn't say he supported homosexuality. And nowhere in the bible does it say Jesus was FOR government-paid healthcare or opening our borders to let everyone in.

Many liberal talking points aren't addressed in the bible either. Sorry.

[AgingAmerican]

43. Im pointing out a fact

About the GOP. Why so upset?

[trotsky]

44. And I'm pointing out a fact too.

So why are YOU so upset?

Or you can address my point instead of playing this silly game.

[AgingAmerican]

45. What point? That "The Democrats do it too!"??

Anderson Cooper, is that you?

My point is obviously completely lost on you.

[trotsky]

46. Yep, I'm pretty stupid.

Thanks for confirming. You make baby Jesus proud.

[cleanhippie]

52. I really love the passive-aggressive "why does this upset you?" approach.

Notice his complete lack of coherent response to the questions posed.

[beam me up scottie]

54. Was Jesus a True Scotsman?

Talk about missing the point...

[cleanhippie]

32. Are you saying that non-GOP Christians don't mix politics with their religious beliefs?

Really? Are you sure about that?

[AgingAmerican]

39. Which non GOP christians

Mix GOP talking points with bible stories? I'm all ears.

[cleanhippie]

41. Your intentional obfuscation demonstrate that you approve of mixing politics and religion

but only the politics you approve of.

You can continue to evade the question or answer honestly. What WILL you do?

[AgingAmerican]

42. Nothing you just said

Has anything to do with anything I said. I am simply stating behaviors as they pertain specifically to the GOP.

Why does this upset you so much?

[beam me up scottie]

47. Because your posts beg the question.

Christians are no better than non-christians.

Claiming that non-GOP ones are the real christians is religious bias.

[AgingAmerican]

48. So you won't say why it upsets you so much

...nt

[cleanhippie]

50. Every response you've gotten in this thread ends with you asking "why does this upset you?"

No one is upset. Kindly refrain from this passive-aggressive tactic, as it will get you nowhere if you really want honest conversation.

[AgingAmerican]

51. Read the title of the OP

Then ask yourself, "Why am I so upset over this subject?"

[cleanhippie]

53. lol. Your projection makes honest conversation impossible.

You have a nice day.

[cleanhippie]

49. Your passive-aggressive approach is noted and dismissed.

Let's chat again when you've overcome this problem.

[griloco]

2. And it's well documented

Green cards were mandatory to get loaves & fish

[Octoberfurst]

4. I find this poll so disturbing.

So let me get this straight. Jesus, who according to the Bible, fed the hungry and healed the sick without asking for any payment would be against giving health care for all? What Bible do these Republicans read? Of course they already believe that "The Prince of Peace" is pro-war so I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise. They apparently have their own version of Jesus: white, gay-hatin', war-lovin', gun-totin', tax-cuttin', refugee despisin' and totally pro-corporation. He bears no resemblence to the Jesus of the Bible but then Republicans have their own vesion of reality.

[cbayer]

13. The bible can be used for good or bad, as we so often discuss here.

Last edited Fri Jul 18, 2014, 11:54 AM - Edit history (1)

So let's cheer when it's used for good (social justice, civil liberties, taking care of the most needy) and boo when it is used for bad.

[SecularMotion]

14. Cheat? Was that a Freudian slip?

I think you meant cheer.

[cbayer]

15. Lol. Yes, spell check didn't get that one.

(or it could be s secret missive from the team I know nothing about but apparently controls me).

[okasha]

20. Apparently a number of posters here

secretly believe in possession.

[cbayer]

21. We must get our own exorcist immediately.

[okasha]

22. I suspect they're the same ones who believe

that LGBT people are homophobes, feminists are "pro-life" and women are misogynists.

Very strange, they are.

[cbayer]

23. That is their gift okasha.

The ability to see the evil in us that we didn't even know existed. In fact to see the evil that we have taken a hard stand against.

Miracle workers, I tell you. Saints.

[skepticscott]

25. Not even secretly...

They step right up and affirm that they think there's something to the idea of real demonic possession.

[okasha]

27. That thing that just whizzed by you was the point.

[skepticscott]

33. Thanks, I got it

But I'm not surprised that you and others continue try to minimize and make jokes about the promotion of a belief that causes people's deaths.

[rug]

34. Like intolerance.

[Warren Stupidity]

37. Oh come on, they get cured by PLACEBO EFFECT.

So what's the problem?

[Scuba]

5. Back when I was wading in the cesspool known as Discussionist, I saw many, many posts ...

... declaring any taxation as robbery at gunpoint. That's no doubt the belief that causes some of these asshats to see things the way they do.

[Gothmog]

6. I could never get started on Atlas Shrugged

It is poorly written and did not hold my interest. The fact that so many think that this book is meaningful is sad.

The idiots who think that Ayn Rand had any spirituality in her are mistaken She was out for herself and no one else. That is not a good spiritual position for people to take.

[cbayer]

12. I look back in horror when I recall the period of my life when I was totally mesmerized by Ayn Rand.

It was, of course, during my adolescence, when it happens to many.

I never saw her as a spiritual at all. If anything, it was her lack of spirituality that was so attractive to me.

Like most, I grew out of it and reclaimed my liberal beliefs fairly quickly.

[Prophet 451]

36. That's the difference

You grew out of it. They didn't.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. What's interesting is that it's non-Christians who see Jesus as a liberal

The poll results: http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/bpuzgpfb2b/tabs_OPI_wwjd_20140702.pdf

Would Jesus support – Gay marriage
Protestants: Support 20%, Oppose 62%
Catholics: Support 32%, Oppose 49%
Other religions: Support 38%, Oppose 34%
Agnostic or Atheist: Support 69%, Oppose 5%

Would Jesus support – Legal abortion
Protestants: Support 13%, Oppose 67%
Catholics: Support 18%, Oppose 59%
Other religions: Support 25%, Oppose 39%
Agnostic or Atheist: Support 31%, Oppose 19%

Would Jesus support – Death penalty for murderers
Protestants: Support 40%, Oppose 39%
Catholics: Support 28%, Oppose 49%
Other religions: Support 32%, Oppose 35%
Agnostic or Atheist: Support 22%, Oppose 55%

etc. Notably, although Catholics are pretty clear they think Jesus would oppose the death penalty, and recent popes have publicly opposed it, they themselves support it - 66%, with just 23% opposing it. But a lot of Americans support it - even in Agnostics or Atheists, it's 48% support, 29% oppose.

[trotsky]

10. Well whaddya know. n/t

[cbayer]

11. I think that's true, and not surprising, when you look at these rather large groups.

There is lots of variation amount protestants and "other religions', of course, but it's not surprising that the unaffiliated are more liberal on these specific issues.

[Warren Stupidity]

16. As there is no way to determine which biblical interpretation is correct

the republican version is as correct as any other. God rewards the good hard working people with wealth and punishes the idle sinners with poverty. There is precedence for this view, particularly within some protestant denominations, it is part of American history since the earliest days of the colonization of North America.

[Act_of_Reparation]

17. Yes and no

I think there's a lot to be learned through textual criticism. Comparing various translations of Biblical texts across many centuries gives one a pretty good idea of what the original texts might have said.

But that's neither here nor there, as I tend to agree with Dan Fincke, that religions are cultural institutions, more so than mere collections of ancient texts:

But the propositional, literalist believer is not the “true” instance of any religion. There is no way to mediate and determine what “true” Christianity or “true” Islam or “true” Hinduism are in propositional terms. These are cultural institutions, they have changed wildly over time and in different places and still can change in drastic unforeseeable ways. There is no reason to say a biblical or koranic literalist is truer to his or her religious tradition than someone who reads those texts allegorically or selectively or who rejects them entirely but still for some reason identifies with the religion.

What the totality of the texts say or don't say isn't really that important when each respective Christian sect has an established cultural tradition of believing or practicing in a certain way. They are all equally valid (or, as we would see them, invalid). So, we are in agreement on that point.

[Warren Stupidity]

18. What the original texts might have said is so frequently so completely absurd or unacceptable

that outside of radical fundamentalist loons, everyone else has to cherry pick and reformulate.

[Act_of_Reparation]

19. Correction:

The texts are so bad that even the fundamentalist loons are cherry picking just like everyone else

It really is no coincidence that guys like Bart Ehrman, who started their textual studies as firebreathing Evangelicals, are now much less enthusiastic about religion.

[skepticscott]

26. All of the textual criticism ever expounded

Can't answer the question of how Christians can be sure what god really thinks, wants or expects, and what someone else says god thinks, wants or expects. Or for that matter, what statements in the Bible attributed to god that he actually said.

[Act_of_Reparation]

31. Precisely

We can get an approximate idea of what the Bible literally says, but we can't really use that to determine who is a "true" believer or who is a "fake". Believers have contented themselves for centuries making shit up to suit their ideological preferences, to the point where these beliefs are ingrained at the cultural level. Arguing over who the "real" Christians are is a silly and pointless endeavor, at least for this locale.

[Prophet 451]

35. Not a surprise

I may have observed this before but the GOP have essentially created a new religion. Like Mormonism, it's a religion that's grown out of Christianity but is quite distinct from it. Unlike most religions, which get drawn into politics by events, this religion exists directly BECAUSE of politics, to confer divine approval onto fringe-right policies. It melds lip service to Jesus with a more-or-less complete repudiation of everything Jesus actually taught. It has it's own high priests (Limbaugh, Beck, etc), it's own devil figure (Obama), it's own articles of faith and it's own messianic figure (Reagan). While it claims to be Christian and has appropriated the Bible for it's own ends, it's actual teachings are a blend of Randian wealth worship, Nieztchian will-to-power, classist loathing of the poor as weak and Nazi-level nationalism.

I'm a Luciferian Satanist myself but I have read the Bible and I have a lot of time for that Jesus bloke. His teachings of compassion, love and tolerance inspired my grandmother (who raised me) to devote her entire life to caring for disabled and disturbed kids. But here's teh funny thing: You'd never have known she was a Christian unless you asked. She'd complain loud and long about the local council shrinking the budget for childcare and about the stipend she got for looking after them never being enough but I never once heard her complain that her faith wasn't getting preferential treatment. I know (from conversations we had toward the end of her life) she drew a lot of comfort and inspiration from her faith but she never tried to lord her faith over others.

[okasha]

55. Spot on.

If we could rec individual posts, I'd rec this one.