When did you come out as atheist? Or did it matter to do so in your life?

[pinto]

I'm gay. So "coming out" is something I'm very familiar with.

I recognize some similarities in the public attitudes about atheism and homosexuality. It's tenuous, but I can see correlations.

[arcane1]

1. I never made an announcement or anything. Indeed, the process itself was somewhat gradual.

If someone asks, I'll answer, but I haven't encountered a situation where I felt the need to announce it unbidden.

[ZombieHorde]

2. When I was a teenager.

I got in trouble with my mother, but she got over it.

[pinto]

32. I got in a bit of trouble with myself. But I got over it.

[Warpy]

3. People hate atheists a lot more than they hate gay folks

I've been very careful about who I've come out to. I stay in the "I'm not very religious" closet most of the time because people hate female atheists ten times more than male atheists.

It's the "I'm between girlfriends" I heard from gay friends out in public before the Stonewall riots blew the lid off.

But yes, "coming out" in both can present some of the same problems and potential for rejection by people who should be better than that, like parents and siblings.

[The Magistrate]

5. You A Special Little Snowflake, Fella, Ain'tcha?

"The world is teeming with human insects ready to disclose the will of the Almighty on every conceivable subject."

[cbayer]

6. I seriously thought he was being sarcastic, but I now see it's his first and only post,

so I think you are more likely correct.

[longship]

9. BANG! And it's gone.

Buh-bye.

Thank you MIRT!

[pinto]

34. It's good to see you around Mag.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."

R.W. Emerson

[longship]

7. You post that in the DU Religion Group?

where we actually discuss religion?



What is this "was to heaven" of which you write?

[cbayer]

8. I think "was" is the "wings ascension service".

You know, it's like rapid transit, but to heaven!

[longship]

11. I never can get those acronyms right.

MWRYIYPICB.

MIRT Will Remove You If You Post Idiotic Conservative Babble.

In this case, it's rapid transit to a tombstone.

If that's heaven, I wouldn't know. Maybe the poster will reincarnate and let us all know. It's happened before. Fortunately, MIRT has some kind of omnipotent powers to detect such things.

All bow down to almighty MIRT!

[cbayer]

14. In MIRT we trust.

[longship]

16. DUzy !

BTW, it's my birthday. My twin and I had a nice phone conversation today, as we always do. Lots of silly jokes and foolishness. She's eight minutes older than me, so I tease her relentlessly about being an old woman.

Hope things are going well for you.

Best regards.

[cbayer]

17. Happy birthday to you!

Tomorrow is my son's and my husband's birthday. All the planets must be aligned for good guys!

Did not know you were a twin. Lucky you.

I hope you have a great day. I am leaving for Italy in 3 days!

[longship]

19. Italy! Sounds great!

You aren't sailing there are you? (If so, you have to tweet from the Panama Canal.)

Hope you keep in touch, and I hope you post reports on your adventures.

I hear that the food is great!

[cbayer]

22. Nope, flying.

The boat is safely tucked away for hurricane season.

It's my sincere goal to not only eat some of that great food but learn to cook it!

I will have internet access but will be on very different hours. Will stay in touch, my friend.

Happy, happy birthday!!

[longship]

23. No flying jib, then.

I had my hopes up.

Well, if one wants to get to Italy quickly, one does not want to sail.

Have a safe voyage, my friend. Take in lots of artsy-fartsy Italian culture, including yummy in the tummy food, lubricated with sufficient wine. (I will leave the latter to your discretion.) I hope that you'll forgive me if I raise a glass from this side of the big pond.


My best.

[okasha]

24. Happy birthday, longship!

Have fun!

[longship]

25. Movie night!

Tempted to do some "Foyle's War" (BBC/PBS). Great WWII period mysteries. I have the whole series on DVD.

Thanks, 66 and still counting. (Thankfully.)

[pinto]

28. Happy, happy birthday. A twin here, as well. So it's 2 happy birthdays.

[longship]

29. Thanks, pinto.

Bones getting creaky, but I keep movin'.

My best regards to you.

[sailfla]

10. You know what I always say

I'm just ain't that smart. I really don't know if there is a god or not.
I'm still trying to figure out how big Noah's boat was. "Forty cubits... whats a cubit, god". For those who remember..from one of Bill Cosby's sketches

[longship]

12. How long can you tread water?

Yup! I remember it.

[cbayer]

15. One of my all time favorite comedy bits.

Am I on Candid Camera?

[LeftishBrit]

13. I don't remember ever 'coming out'. My parents were atheists.

I don't go around discussing religion with everyone; but most people who know me well know that I'm an atheist. I have some very religious friends - both Jews and Christians- and they know and accept that I'm not a believer. But in the UK it's generally acceptable to be an atheist.

[AtheistCrusader]

18. I think everyone just kind of always knew.

Most atheists I've known were, at some point in their lives, believers. I never was. My parents read me things that have religious grounding, but I just gave it no credence at all, any more than the stories in Aesop's fables, or 1001 Arabian nights (Which my parents also read to me.).

I read a lot of greek, norse, and roman mythology as a kid, very early age (I tried to read the entire non-fiction section of my elementary school, and made it pretty deep into the L's by the time I left, which either means I'm a fast reader, or the library was pathetically small.) so I got a lot of 'concepts' of god and gods to mull over, and found, I didn't care about any of them.

So since I never came from a position of believing, I was never thrust into a position where I either made the jump to non-belief, or, dropped a previously held act, wherein I pretended to believe. So, I 'come out' as an atheist whenever the subject comes up, at all, and there is someone in the room that didn't know, but that's it.

It's an upbringing that I am extremely grateful for, and wish more people could experience.

No one has ever made me question myself as a being a sinner, merely by indictment of my birth as a human being. Never made to feel inadequate before some superior being. I have my inadequacies, but they are before my peers, other humans. Inadequacies that are within MY power to address. Sin that is for ME to define by MY values.

The idea of being raised, believing in the sort of gods most Americans believe in, is horrifying to me. I would not choose that for myself, and I would not forgive another human that tried to impose it on me.

[pinto]

46. I read a lot of those stories a kid, too. Loved them and found many common threads among them all.

My mother actually bought me a set of books that included them along with some basic world history stories. She did it with a wink and a nod, I suspect, to feed my curiosity and broaden my views. We lived in a predominant Catholic milieu, culturally and religiously.

I take Christian stories in the same vein. There's something to be culled there and taken for what it's worth into one's own life.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

20. I was born one.

My parents didn't drag me to church services, so my introduction to religion was in reading the Bible for the purposes of 'quiz team' competition in high school or the occasional wedding I attended. I did attend an Easter Mass in Aachen Cathedral, though, and a Whitsuntide one in York Minster, more for the pageantry than anything else. I don't particularly hide it, if anyone asks, but I also don't go around volunteering the info in rl, either. I don't see the need to trumpet it about, any more than I see the need for religious people to do so.

[djean111]

21. Just curious - why isn't this in the atheism thread? Anyway,

if someone asks me what religion I am, or does the "have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior" thing, I just say I am atheist. If pressed, I will say I had an NDE when 17 and it was not religious at all, and the beliefs that were instilled into me as a child just sort of evaporated, no further discussion needed. Usually the NDE thing forestalls any further discussion on the subject. I cannot prove the NDE, no one else can prove there is any sort of god or gods, what I believe or don't believe, of course, does not mean there is no god, and if (when) someone says they do not believe in NDEs, that, of course, also means zippo and zilch.
I would like to mention that being an atheist is not something that I think about each day, and I do not go looking for other atheists to hang out with; I see no reason to do that.

[pinto]

30. Thought it was a likely topic for this forum. It's one I visit regularly.

[Warren Stupidity]

42. because it is entirely on topic here?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

86. The Religion group is open to discussions from both believers and non-believers

There's a misconception that the Religion group is a safe haven for believers, but the Statement of Purpose for the Religion group reads:

Discuss religious and theological issues. All relevant topics are permitted. Believers, non-believers, and everyone in-between are welcome.

For religious discussions by believers in a safe haven environment, there are a number of options available here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1217

[djean111]

87. It was just a perfectly mildly asked question.

If this post had not shown up on the latest post page, i would not have seen it, that's all I meant.

[hollysmom]

26. AM I out?

My family is sure I am still Catholic and am just looking for attention by saying I am an atheist.
Some of my friends know, some don't - doesn't come up that much since I don't go to church with them.
Most of the ones where we had discussed religion and I declared my position, well they are either atheists themselves or agnostics, 2 follow Indian spirits.
People do criticize me for not saying god bless you when they sneeze, but a minister that used to preach to me at work and I told I was an atheist, used to get mad when I would say god bless you to him, I said it was for the receiver, not the sender. Mostly I say take care of yourself when people sneeze now.

[longship]

31. When somebody says "Bless you" or "God bless you" to me...

I respond with, "Thank you, your eminence."

Respectful, but with a tad bit of snark. (Of course, with a smile.)

[AtheistCrusader]

37. I actually had a believer at work ask me if I minded that she said 'bless you' when I

sneeze. Just today even.

I told her it's fine. She's not doing it with the authority of the state or federal government, so no worries.

[Warren Stupidity]

45. you aren't worried that you will become religious?

[AtheistCrusader]

47. Nah, I'm well-innoculated.

Logic. Reason. History.

Pretty much immune.

[okasha]

51. As a pagan in a Spanish-speaking area,

I just say "Salud!" (Actually, it's a threefold well-wishing. "Salud!" is for the first sneeze, "Dinero!" for the second, and "Amor!" for the third.)

[customerserviceguy]

53. For the sneeze

I find the word "Gesundheit" to be completely appropriate. It means "good health" in German.

By the way, why does my sneezing require someone to say something to me, my burping require me to apologize to them, and my coughing require zero response from either of us?

[hollysmom]

55. Well, I guess it is just a matter of taste

When someone sneezes isn't it supposed to be thought of a little death, so you should wish them well for continued living.

Burps and farts are commented depending on how well you know the people around you.

My coughing, on the other hand, always requires comment, I almost lost a job (contract) when I had a sinus infection for 2 years and my coughing was distracting other, they thought I had consumption or something it was so loud. I cough badly, but effectively to clear my lungs. Right now, I just got over a summer cold and was fine until the dentist gave me antibiotics for a tooth infection, when the anti biotic series was done, this strange cough has started, I can't sleep for too long it wakes me, so tired I can barely clean house. anyway, won't talk to people on the phone, only text them because it is so bad sounding.

[eomer]

59. Maybe acid reflux?

I had a persistent cough for a couple of years. The doctor kept saying it was a sinus condition causing it. It wasn't - it was acid reflux. Now that I'm treating that with over-the-counter medicine my cough is gone. Of course that may not be the case for you, just saying maybe you should check.

[hollysmom]

79. no, I think it is related to having a cold while taking antoibiotics

probably created a resistant lung infection or something, I just want to stay awake long enough to mow my lawn today before the town decides I am neglecting my property. Tomorrow morning the docor and he is pretty good.

[eomer]

83. Best wishes, hope you can kick it soon. n/t

[Lordquinton]

56. same for me

It's more from family tradition than personal beliefs. My great grandfather was a Swedish minister, up in the wilds of canada and he said that, passed down through the ages.

[procon]

27. It never was a vital issue

In my early teens, I came to the realization that religion was little more than a slick con game wielded by clever hucksters to fleece the willing. As an atheist, I have never felt any compulsion to proselytize on the subject of my personal philosophical notions; it just is what it is.

Ranked in order of importance, the topic of atheism/belief falls somewhat below my indifference to beets in the overall scheme of life. It's confounding to me that someone's private convictions are of any concern or interest to anyone else.

[djean111]

33. Exactly.

I only care about someone else's private convictions if they are trying to force them on me and I don't agree with them.
It would never occur to me to ask someone if they are theist or atheist.

[Goblinmonger]

35. I'm only selectively out.

My wife knows (she's not an atheist--probably deist-ish). My kids know (both atheists--though baptized Catholic). Likely my kids' friends know. At the school where I teach, out of about 55 teachers, probably only about 5 know. That's about it.

It would not be good for me to be fully out in rural central Wisconsin.

[skepticscott]

36. Perhaps you'd better explain first

what it means for an atheist to be "out". Some posters here seem to be utterly clueless about that. Or so they claim.

[AtheistCrusader]

38. I thought they meant my belly button.

[Starboard Tack]

39. I guess I'm one of the "clueless"

What exactly does being "out"as an atheist mean?
Admitting one's lack of belief when asked?
Ridiculing believers?
Walking around with a sign saying "I'm an atheist?"
Or is it just about not hiding it?

[skepticscott]

40. Well. at least

you weren't dickish about your cluelessness. God bless you for that.

[pinto]

41. I guess my point, albeit poorly made, is that it doesn't matter, imo.

i.e. No big deal.

[Warren Stupidity]

43. I was wondering how this would be transformed into a shit flinging festival, now I know.

[edhopper]

48. There are repercussions to

admitting you are an atheist to people.
Sometimes it is easier to keep it to yourself.
If your family and/or friends are religious it can be anywhere from awkward to antagonistic.
Other times it can threaten your livelihood.
At least you admit you are clueless to the difficulties.

[skepticscott]

49. When you live in a bubble

none of that matters. As long as no one has ever treated YOU badly because you're an atheist, you're perfectly justified in dismissing the possibility that it happens to anyone else, because they're all a bunch of whiners and jerks, anyway.

[Iggo]

50. I guess.

[customerserviceguy]

54. It's a good question

And the OP related it to being gay, so I will go down that path.

When others around you try to drag you into something religious (I except weddings and funerals) do you merely say that you don't have time, or do you say, "That's not my religion, thanks," or, I'm atheist, and I don't do that kind of thing. I know that gay and lesbian people have had to make all kinds of 'excuses' as to why they don't have an opposite sex partner, or respond in other glancing ways when friends, relatives, strangers try to impose a heterosexual mindset on them, I know that atheists do the same thing.

If you're "out" as an atheist, it means that you'll say you're one when someone assumes to your face that you're probably religious like they are. It certainly doesn't mean going around dissing people who are religious.

[Starboard Tack]

57. I have trouble comparing religious belief to sexual orientation

Sexual orientation includes how one presents oneself to the world. Consequently, a gay person who is not "out" is more likely to guard certain behavior in public.
Religious belief is a purely personal thing and has no place in public unless the individual wants to flaunt it. Not declaring one's atheism from the mountaintop is hardly equivalent to being in the closet. Denying one's belief, or lack of belief or hiding from it seems rather dishonest, if not cowardly, and only serves to reinforce bigotry.
Why would anyone want to associate with people who don't accept them as individuals?

[customerserviceguy]

58. I'll admit

it's far from a perfect comparison. What the two share most in common is how others not atheist or gay treat the person who is one of those things, and it's usually based on a religious teaching that those things are bad.

[Starboard Tack]

60. Very true, though there is no shortage of homophobia among atheists.

Bigotry is definitely reinforced by certain fundamentalist beliefs, but it is not exclusive to believers.

[Goblinmonger]

63. "No shortage"

You do know that atheists trend overwhelmingly left. Don't let reality bother you in your attempt to smear some of us here.

[Starboard Tack]

64. The key word being "trend". Do you think the left is free from bigotry?

I said no shortage, as there is no shortage of bigots either. Unfortunately, that is the reality. A reality often exemplified around here by some of your anti-theist buddies. But don't let that reality bother you.
Trust me, if they constituted a majority, I wouldn't be here.
Who did you think I was smearing?

[Goblinmonger]

66. The key words here are "no shortage"

which would mean that there are a lot. Statistics would not support you in that. On most surveys I have seen regarding social issues, the position of atheists is far more progressive than the other groups tested for. By that survey, a full 15% more "unaffiliated" support gay marriage than White Catholics. So if there are "no shortage" of bigots in the atheist realm, then I can't wait to see what you have to say about White Catholics.

Of course there are no shortage of bigots anywhere. Are there non-progressive atheists? Of course there are. Statistically, they are not the majority of atheists by a long shot. As we have discussed before, atheists are generally well educated and financially OK. They also lean heavily progressive. That you would go out of your way to note a group that trends more progressive than any other religious based group (except Jewish Americans on some issues from surveys I have seen on a couple issues) has "no shortage" of bigots whereas you generally say nothing about bigotry in religion is rather telling.

[Starboard Tack]

68. I guess we agree. No shortage does not mean a majority.

Of course there are bigots everywhere. I am not interested in discussing the bigotry of religious fundies on this board. They don't come here. I am far more concerned with those who identify as non believers and share similar views as myself, yet embrace intolerance and promote bigotry toward all people of faith, especially progressive believers. Their rhetoric is more in line with the RW fundies than liberal progressives. Of course atheists lean heavily progressive. I'm one of them. Yet there are plenty on the fringe who are not progressive, in any way. They are destructive and disruptive, and as we have discussed before, there actions tend to marginalize them to the point that, at least around here, they find themselves ignored.

[AtheistCrusader]

70. You might want to bing or google for "No Shortage" and "Expression"

and see how it is commonly used. It does imply somewhat north of 'half' in common use.


"Pained, bruised expression says it all for Canucks fans Club playing in Phoenix tonight. ... There was no shortage of reaction from stunned fans on Twitter."

"Born and raised in Montreal, there was no shortage of artistic expression that surrounded Alexandra growing up. With a mother and a grandmother both being fine ..."

"No shortage of taste, flair from Quatuor Ébène, expression was paramount in the second half, devoted to the quartet’s pop and jazz repertoire. The arrangements favored stylistic evocation over ..."

"No shortage of emotions as National Spelling Bee heads to finals – Los Angeles Times."

"There was no shortage of talent or energy surging out of Edmonds-Woodway High School. Teenagers filled the majority of theater seats to cheer, sing …"


I'm curious on what grounds any given atheist might also be a homophobe. Usually, even bigots, have a reason for such things. Take away that 'it's a sin' thing, and what's left?

[goldent]

73. "Take away that 'it's a sin' thing, and what's left?"

Seriously?

[AtheistCrusader]

75. Serious question.

If one does not presuppose there's something wrong with it, how does one become a homophobe? I've certainly never met one.

And this is consistent with the statistical left-bent of atheists on social issues.

[Starboard Tack]

77. Beats me too why anyone would be a homophobe, especially today

But most of us have held bigoted views at some point in our lives. Old habits are often hard to shed.

No shortage to me means exactly what it says. Enough to go around. Not a majority, by any means.

One wouldn't expect to encounter intolerants on DU, yet there is no shortage.

[AtheistCrusader]

78. Oh boy, here we go with the intolerant of intolerants is intolerance canard.

Your use of 'no shortage' is not common.

[Starboard Tack]

80. So, intolerance is OK? Or should it be confronted?

No canard. You tell me. Are you OK with the ugliness that goes on?

I don't care whether "no shortage" is common or not. To me it means a fair number. Like there is a fair number of intolerant anti-theists. I think they call themselves the "New Atheists". I guess I'm an old one.

[okasha]

84. What's left?

Pure hatred of "the other" or the perceived "other."

One of the worst phobes I've evet met was a conservative atheist. She thought she was "tolerant" because she once went to a women's basketball game.

[AtheistCrusader]

85. Homophobe and conservative atheist?

I would want to ask that person 'what for'.

Without the 'sin' baggage, I have a hard time imagining what she would view as 'other' about her, being similarly human.
It's a mind-boggling concept.

I really need to meet one of these people, and see what the deal is. I suppose it could be a passed-on cultural thing, but even that, what's the motive? Who profits? I can see a profit motive for religious sources that want to turn us against ourselves, make us reach out for salvation from 'our sins' and what we perceive as shortcomings, but where the hell does it come from, for secular/nones?


To paraphrase Mr. Degrasse Tyson, I want to know why that 'oppose' number, that I posted earlier for secular/nontheists of all stripes, for same-sex marriage isn't zero. Yeah, we're top of the pile, next to Progressives, but why is the 'oppose' number a whole number at all? Same for Progressives. Why isn't that oppose number zero?

It's personally frustrating to me that it isn't zero. And I look around in my life at all the 'out' atheists, and all the progressives, believers or not, and I can find none of these 'oppose' people anywhere. Do I just not know enough people?

[Goblinmonger]

72. That's not what I said at all.

"No shortage" means a majority. It means they are pretty common place. There was a point in time when I would have thought you were being deliberately obtuse.

So you are saying that the vocal atheists here on DU aren't progressives? Kind of sounds like it.

[eomer]

61. Re: Why would anyone want to associate with people...

When they are family. Also when they are friends of family or friends of friends. Also when they are work associates. Would you suggest we disown our family like Jesus 'said' Christians should do?

In my case several of my in laws have made an ugly issue of my atheism. I don't discuss religion with them unless they bring it up and even then usually suggest that we talk about something else, which has allowed us to have peaceful family events (together with the same approach for politics).

[Starboard Tack]

65. Sounds like you're handling it well by not discussing it

They all know you are an atheist and as long as religion is left off the table, all is well.
It came up once with me. I made it clear where I stood and the subject has not been raised since. Live and let live.
Politics is a whole other thing.

[Warren Stupidity]

62. In which universe is religious identity

a purely personal thing?

It certainly isn't this universe, in which throughout human history religious identity has frequently gotten people killed. There are vast sections of our own country where not identifying with the dominant faith immediately marks a person as an untrustworthy outsider. We have a religious identity based war going on right now in the Middle East. As an alleged atheist you must certainly be aware of the pervasiveness off religiosity in our culture, so it is simply astounding to see you utter such bland transparent canards.

[Starboard Tack]

67. Did I say "identity". Thought not.

That would be you who is caught up with this need to identify and label. Maybe that is the universe you live in. Most of us live in a world where we don't give a damn what anyone believes in. We're more interested in how we treat each other.
There may be vast sections of your country where you are made to feel like an outsider, but that may have more to do with how you relate to the inhabitants rather than your personal religious beliefs.
I spent 35 years in your country and never experienced any alienation. Much of that time was in bible belt.
I now live in countries where the dominant faith is Roman Catholicism. Guess what, I've encountered zero animosity from anyone, and I am open concerning my lack of belief.
In fact, the only animosity I've ever felt has come from a handful of intolerant anti-theists in this group and a handful of extremists in the Gungeon.
Go figure!
But then again, I live in a bubble according to them, so what would I know.

[Warren Stupidity]

71. "Religious belief is a purely personal thing " - no it isn't, but you did say you were clueless.

"coming out" with respect to religious belief includes at least identifying what one's religious beliefs are, it is making public one's religious identity. That is not "a purely personal thing".

In fact, the only animosity I've ever felt has come from a handful of intolerant anti-theists in this group ...

yeah why on earth would that be?


The fact that you claim that you are an atheist and an atheist who has never encountered any animosity for proclaiming your atheism (except of course from other atheists) is anecdotal nonsense. Quite frankly, I don't believe either of those assertions.

[Starboard Tack]

76. Actually it is a purely personal thing.

There are different levels of cluelessness. I'm sure you can relate.
The "coming out", the "declaring to the world" are not personal beliefs, but actions. If you cannot see the difference then you may want to seek clues elsewhere.
I don't "claim" to be an atheist. I am one by definition. I do not believe in a creator, or any deity. I am not an anti-theist and I have no issue with anyone who believes in a god or gods. This seems to be a problem for some simple minded anti-theists, who see me as some kind of apologist for the crimes committed by people and organizations, in the name of religion.

As one of those who shows animosity toward me, maybe you'd care to explain. Is it because I lack the prerequisite persecution complex of the "true atheist"? Or is it because you think I am lying and only posing as an atheist?

You see, we're at an impasse. We are here for different reasons, regardless of shared beliefs. I'm here to promote tolerance and you are here to make believers see the light and realize how deluded and mentally ill they are.

And what you believe or don't believe is of no interest or concern to me.

[AtheistCrusader]

69. There are places in this country where non-attendance to a church is noticed.

Noticed and has consequences.

Where I live, they are powerless, but the PacNW is a bit different than say, the deep south.


OP is not comparing religious belief to sexual orientation. It's comparing persecution of each, which does exist. You've seen the 'trust' survey. That has consequences in real life. No, we don't necessarily wear atheism on our skin tone, or facial structure (comparing to racial discrimination) but when discovered, it most certainly can be a problem.

"Why would anyone want to associate with people who don't accept them as individuals?"
This is the root cause for my 'find another religion that reflects your values' suggestion that has drawn such ire from cbayer. Perhaps you can explain it to her, since you seem to share my position.

[Starboard Tack]

74. What "consequences" are we talking about exactly?

People talking behind one's back kinda consequences? Or something more serious?
I'm a big believer in standing up to bigotry.

I'm not familiar with your latest drawing of ire from cb. I'll have to look that up unless you have a handy link. Though I must say, we rarely discuss these things. I think we've both come to the realization that most discussion about religion is safer on anonymous internet boards than at the dinner table, no matter how in line one's views may be. That said, I do enjoy reading her threads with you and others.

[okasha]

88. Not being trusted is prejudice,

but it's not persecution.

Persecution is being tied to a fence, viciously beaten, and left to die. Persecution is being tied to a truck bumper and dragged to death.

Granted, there are places where atheists are persecuted, right along with others who believe or behave "incorrectly." But the stats say that hate crimes against atheists in the US are pretty rare.

[AtheistCrusader]

89. But not being trusted has consequences as well.

Setting up one group as 'the other'. I agree, there are not nearly as widespread cases of outright physical violence against atheists. What we face usually comes in the form of 'no you can't work here' or 'get out of our school', harassment/bullying.

I am not aware of any equivalents to Matthew Shepard, for instance, on the secular side of the religious not-religious rift. There may be such a person, but I am not aware of it.

[Warren Stupidity]

44. My parents were atheists.

So there was no family issue. We were encouraged to make our own choices, only one of my three siblings doesn't identify as atheist. I rarely discussed belief at work, but after 9-11 and the insane reactive religiosity here, I made a point of not keeping my atheism to myself in any situation. Where in the past I might have said "no religion" I have since then always said "atheist".

[customerserviceguy]

52. After I read Richard Dawkins' book

"The God Delusion". In it, he explains that atheism is not the solid assertation that you know there is no supernatural force in the universe, it's pretty much that you reject the idea that any one religion or combination of religions has figured the whole thing out.

After that, I went from referring to myself as an atheist, rather than an agnostic. And you're right about the correlations, there is still a significant stigma in telling people that you're either an atheist or an agnostic. One just has to be comfortable with one's own self in either case, and work towards changing laws that interfere with who you are, even if who that is makes other people uncomfortable.

[mr blur]

81. Atheist as long as I can remember. Never had to "come out".

My parents never cared whether or not I believe in god(s), nor anyone else in my family. Nor anyone else I've ever met (apart from a group of serious-but-harmless people at University who called themselves, proudly, "Jesus Freaks" Hey, it was the 1970s).

Places of work - people would have shuffled aside in an embarrassed fashion if anyone started talking about gods. This is partly because of British reticence to talk about anything "personal", partly because they would think one was (as Tony Bliar pointed out), "a bit of a nutter" and partly because, well, why would anybody care?

[pinto]

82. Jesus freaks. That's a blast from the past.