The religious left is struggling. Can the cause of economic justice help it rise again?

[cbayer]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/the-religious-left-is-struggling-can-the-cause-of-economic-justice-help-it-rise-again/2014/04/24/b9fa0708-cb5e-11e3-93eb-6c0037dde2ad_story.html

By Michelle Boorstein, Updated: Thursday, April 24, 4:30 AM
The religious left was never as powerful and cohesive as the religious right. But a new report based on many interviews with religious progressive leaders finds that the Obama era may have further weakened Democrats’ interest in the non-secular.

The report released Thursday by the Brookings Institution argues that religious progressives could be heading for a renaissance if they can focus on what some see as the civil rights issue of our time: economic justice.

The report, by the institute’s Governance Studies Program, is based on polling and interviews with many of the top players of Washington’s religious left. This includes John Carr, formerly of the U.S. Bishops Conference, evangelical writer Jim Wallis and Rabbi David Saperstein of the Reform Jewish movement.

It starkly lays out the challenges facing religious activists and voters who work for causes such as immigration reform and limiting budget cuts for the poor.

more at link

[merrily]

1. Another "the left is on life support" report.

[cbayer]

4. I'm not so sure.

It speaks specially about the religious left, which has a really steep hill to climb to recover from the damage the religious right has done.

I see signs of it happening and I don't really see this as a pessimistic piece at all.

[merrily]

8. Obviously, we don't see it the same way.

[cbayer]

13. Maybe. What in it do you see as a message about "life support"?

[merrily]

15. ? Words like "struggling" and "weak" suggest something ailing.

So does the concept that the religious left needs to be revived and maybe economic justice will do the trick (as if the religious left--or the secular left--ever believed in economic injustice, anyway).

IOW, the signals being sent about the religious left are not all that different from the signals always sent about the left in general. Religion is just one more angle to approach the same tired theme.

And did I mention there is an enthusiasm gap on the left that suggests the right will prevail this November.

Please.

[cbayer]

17. I see your point, but I think the religious right is waning

and am optimistic about the progressive religious groups getting more active and mobilized.

I hope to see this particularly among younger people.

There have been an increasing number of articles about activism from the religious left and, in particular, articles about interfaith groups and those that include both believers and non-believers.

At any rate, the embers of enthusiasm should be stoked, imo, not doused with pessimism.

[merrily]

21. Huh?

Kindly specify exactly how I doused any embers of enthusiasm with pessimism. To the contrary, I identified what the writer was doing by painting the left was weak and refused to buy into that meme.

I never said that the religious right was either thriving or waning, so I don't know which comment of mine you are disagreeing with.

Also, please don't should on me. If you disagree with what I post, fine. By all means, state your disagreement if you wish and disprove what I posted, if you can. But don't tell me how I should post. Especially when your comment suggests the direct opposite of what I actually posted. Thanks.

[cbayer]

24. Sorry. Didn't mean to sound like I was telling you what you should do.

Just trying to have a discussion with you.

See you around.

[merrily]

23. Wait.

Did you mean this statement about an enthusiasm gap?

And did I mention there is an enthusiasm gap on the left that suggests the right will prevail this November.

Please.

It was pure sarcasm. I was simply giving another example of media pushing the meme that the left is doomed. Hence the "please" after it. From my first post on this thread, I have been objecting to people pushing the meme that the left is weak or dying.

ETA: Never mind. I posted this before reading your reply about how you were the one trying to have an honest discussion with me then telling me you'd see me around.

[cbayer]

26. I did not recognize that as sarcasm and perhaps that is where we lost each other.

I also object to the meme that the left is weak or dying.

The difference is that I read this article as the opposite of that and you read it as saying just that.

That's ok. Perspectives always color interpretation, don't they?

[merrily]

28. The author's starting premise was that one segment of the

left was weak, ailing and in need of rescuscitation in that it might be saved by pursuing economic justice--which the religious left always has pursued anyway.

I did not think that part of it was my perception. It's how the author framed the issue.

If it isn't the religious left that is ailing, it's the left of the left. If it isn't the left of the left. If it isn't the left of the left that's dying, then it's the center of the Party has misjudged and is about to wreck the Party.

It's incessant--and not only on the part of the media; and I object to it.

Meanwhile, in reality, it was the RNC that dramatically declared it was conducting an autopsy on its own party and can't seem to get out of its own way.


That is why I asked you to be specific about what I had posted that you considered pessmistic.

Anyway, whatever.

[cbayer]

29. I am a fan of Michelle Boorstein.

She wrote a book about Buddhism that played a critical role for me at one point in my life ("It's Easier Than You Think&quot . It's a book that I still refer to during times of struggle.

At any rate, that might explain some of the difference in the way we experience this article. I have always found her a very thoughtful and positive voice. At any rate, she is far from a doomsday critic of the left.

[merrily]

31. The way she framed the issue seems to me to be indisputable.

The religious left is struggling. Can the cause of economic justice help it rise again?


By Michelle Boorstein, Updated: Thursday, April 24, 5:30 AM E-mail the writer

The religious left was never as powerful and cohesive as the religious right. But a new report based on many interviews with religious progressive leaders finds that the Obama era may have further weakened Democrats’ interest in the non-secular.

Those are her words, from your OP. (And btw, it's bs that the religious left was never as powerful and cohesive as the religious right. The religious left was plenty cohesive and powerful until the political right, faking religious zeal, very purposely went to work, especially on Christians and began succeeding.).

Usually, looking to rise again is spoken of in the context of someone or something being dead. She could have taken issue with the findings. Or, she could have agreed with the findings but framed her article differently. She certainly could have omitted the bit about the religious left NEVER having been cohesive. But, she framed this as a look at yet another dying segment of the left and I object to that bit.

That is all I have been saying since my first reply. I have not criticized her personally, or her entire body of work and certainly not her religion or her impact on you. I am not trying to demonize the woman, but I am not buying into her framing of this article, either.

ETA: as to Obama weakening the religious left, I don't know of any US President, including Dimson and Sunday School teacher Carter, who mentions God as much as Obama has, or who began his campaign in a church and campaigned with his pastor at his side (until Wright hit the fan, anyway).

[cbayer]

32. Well, the religious left has been struggling.

They seem to have lost their way, acquiesced, become complacent and been completely overshadowed by the religious right.

This has been so dramatic that the term "christian" is now felt to describe the religious right and their leaders. They even have to try to take the label back.

That's a long and hard road and they need to focus on the issues that have always been their base - social justice, civil rights, peace and economic justice.

I think that's pretty indisputable and the leaders among them need to be focused and forceful, imo.

When she says they have never been as organized and cohesive, I agree with her. The right sets rigid, dogmatic policy then recruits with the understanding that everyone will walk in lock step. The left just doesn't operate that way, but we can be equally effective when we do get organized.

While Obama has spoken about religion, I think her point is that he pushed what had previously been issues embraced by the religious left in a distinctly secular way. While the conservatives were constantly waving their religious flags, Obama seemed to stay away from that. That was a good political move, imo, because so many in this country are sick to death of the religiosity being injected into the government.

I'm not attacking you here. I take issue with your POV, but that's what we do here, right?

[Prophet 451]

2. If it doesn't, it's a missed opportunity

There are millions of Americans who are Christian but not conservative nutbags. It would be a waste to not mobilise them.

[Warpy]

3. There's a whole generation out there that doesn't self identify as Christian

because the pompadoured frauds stole the name and then blackened it. These are kids who are believers and don't think they have anyplace to go.

[cbayer]

6. Agree and I think they will flock to groups that share their political

agendas.

That was a major factor during the anti-VN war era, at least where I was living.

[Prophet 451]

7. Absolutely

I'm not even Christian (I'm a Luciferian Satanist) but when the mental image conjured up by the word "Christian" is Pat Robertson rather than, say, Spong, the public image of Christianity has a real problem. The ultra-conservatives have hijacked the faith and turned it into a tool to glorify money and Republican policy. They're not even about Christianity anymore, they're just the religious outreach arm of the GOP.

[Warpy]

11. I'm an atheist and I remember churches being centers of activity

and mainstream Protestant ministers spearheading the campaign to get early abortion legalized since they were sick of seeing their church members maimed and/or dying in ERs from illegal abortion.

I remember mainstream churches being central to the civil rights struggle.

Then the tent meeting hucksters discovered TV, just in time for Millennial Fever to set in.

What they did to the name of Christianity is something it will take a very long time and very careful return to the egalitarian gospels to overcome.

[cbayer]

19. The mainstream churches were also critically involved in the anti-war movement.

I agree that it will take a long time and a careful return. They have to speak to the younger generations.

I just posted an article about how millennials have been leaving churches in large part due to their positions on GLBT civil rights. This is clearly another area where the mainstream churches need to step up to the plate.

[merrily]

12. There are plenty of places to go, but those places are not publicized.

Also, the right invested a lot of time, money, effort and years in winning over the churches and other organizations, especially young people. The infrastructure they gained was huge. The PTB on the left never challenged any of that or tried to provide an alternative. Still, more young people vote Democratic.

[cbayer]

5. Absolutely, and they have been far too complacent for far too long.

I think the pendulum is swinging, though.

There was a significant amount of religious activity in OWS and it looks like this could be where the liberal church really comes back into it's own.

[Prophet 451]

9. I think this Pope is a big help

Don't misunderstand, I have a lot of issues with this Pope, but the fact that he's loudly speaking out on economic issues must help push the message that Christianity doesn't have to be just about hateful old dickbags hiding their bigotry behind a Bible.

[cbayer]

14. I am with you on that. I think he is playing a critical role

in turning this ship around.

I wish there were more he would or could do to address some of the other issues, but I applaud him for his stance on economic justice.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. What of his silent approval of his Bishop's aggressive support of the Ugandan

anti gay pogrom? Or is that a detail that you see a trivial compared to the 'religious left's' need to repackage their product?
Are you even aware of what is going on there? All Francis has to do is open his filthy, corrupt mouth. But he won't.
Cheers for him are like curses thrown at good people for existing.

[cbayer]

25. It's heinous, BNW, and you know that is my position.

I don't see it as trivial, I just don't share your POV that all of his actions should be condemned because some are antithetical to my own position.

I am willing to support him when he is doing the right thing and criticize him when he is not.

We just approach it from a different perspective.

[merrily]

16. Exactly--or provide them with an alternative, such as things based on ethics and morality.

After so many decades of the right very purposely co-opting religion, I have to wonder why there was no push back until relatively recently. And when the alleged pushback came, it came in the form of trying to seem more like the religious right and stumbling awkwardly and/or apologetically over issues like equal rights for gays and self determination for women.

[Prophet 451]

18. I think the left's inherent disorganisation didn't help

The fact is, righties are easy to convince to march in lock-step while lefties pull in all kinds of directions.

[merrily]

22. I don't think the left is disorganized, either.

But that is a way more complicated subject than I will get into on this thread. Maybe not even on a message board.

(I do know what Will Rogers said.)

On the other hand, the Koch brothers and others got themselves that Tea Party thing going and it's helped defeat several Republican candidates, so the right is not all that much in lock step either. They always had their John Birch Society types. And their Paulist types.

[Bluenorthwest]

10. On DU I see people excusing horrible bigotry by shouting 'economic justice'

and that will not bring redemption. First they need to correct some wrongs they allowed to fester, they need to stand with people and equality and stop telling us some hate mongering cleric is wonderful when he's overseeing a pogrom.

[el_bryanto]

34. Are you referring to the terrible events in Uganda?

And are you suggesting that Francis is overseeing it?

Or is this something else.

Bryant

[JEFF9K]

27. Can the Religious Left exploit fear, ignorance, and hatred ...

... like the Religious Right does? If it did, it wouldn't be the Left.

[cbayer]

30. It is because the religious left doesn't do this that

they have lost so much ground over the last 30 years.

They come to prominence when they speak to people about social justice and civil rights and peace, imo.

[trotsky]

33. Perhaps because more and more of us on the left understand that these issues...

are far greater than religion, and don't need religious language and appeals to religious belief to justify them?

Perhaps it's because when some of the religious left embrace the pope because of his statements on economic issues, many others bristle at joining hands with the leader of a homophobic organization that actively fights against the liberal agenda on many other issues?

The right is more willing to overlook these conflicts. Right wing footsoldiers ignore that they are voting against their economic best interests, because they will support anyone who agrees with them on their hot-button religious issue. There just aren't as many on the left willing to do that, IMHO.

[pinto]

35. I think the secular and religious left will join forces around progressive ideals, especially

Equal rights, voting rights, economic fairness, access to health care - all big ticket issues. And I hope the fusion is truly progressive, forward looking. The right has been *against* something or someone for quite a while. People are taking notice of that. I think we can counter effectively by being *for* something or someone.

[cbayer]

36. I think so too and that bodes very well for the democratic party.

I plan to spend a month or two back in the US this summer and will be interested in what is happening, particularly in the south.

[struggle4progress]

37. Isn't the question put backwards? Shouldn't it be

Can the religious left help the cause of economic justice?

[cbayer]

39. This is an excellent point, but I'm not sure one question eliminates the other.

[skepticscott]

38. So why does the religious left need social causes

to help it "succeed" and gain legitimacy? Unless all they're really looking for is media attention.

It's very telling that nowhere in the article does it even mention the god(s) these progressives are supposed to believe in and to worship. Why is THAT not the focus of attempts to strengthen their religion(s)?

[greendog]

40. As long as the "top players" of the Religious Left...

...continue to have issues with gay people and full equality for women (reproductive choice ) it will continue to struggle. The problem with the religious left is that many of it's visible leaders are old, white, socially conservative men ( Jim Wallis, John Carr) and the young people they need to attract might welcome their help on social justice issues but won't be drawn back into that type of community. There are exactly two denominations that are unambiguously liberal, the Episcopal Church and the United Church of Christ. A few other mainline denominations may or may not be liberal on a church by church basis. Most "Liberal Christians" can be found sitting quietly in conservative churches. That's not going to attract the young folks either.

[cbayer]

41. Who are the "top players" on the religious left?

Bill Moyers? Gene Robinson? William Barber? Jesse Jackson? Jan Cope? Gary Hall?

Who exactly are you referring to? The Pope? He is hardly a top player of the religious left.

Jim Wallis is not what I would consider a leader, and I can't even find a reference to a John Carr in a google search.

[greendog]

42. Jim Wallis and John Carr were both mentioned ...

...in the article you posted at the top of this thread. They were called "top players" in that same article. John Carr worked for the Council of Catholic Bishops.

[cbayer]

45. My bad. I didn't note that they had been mentioned as some

who had been interviewed for this report. My apologies.

However, I don't consider them the top liberal religious leaders at all.

Do you?

[skepticscott]

44. Excuse me?

If you search "John Carr religious left" on Google, it hits on the same damn article that YOU posted. Of course the reference to John Carr as a leader of the religious left is IN your OP, so we have to wonder why you're feigning ignorance here.

[MellowDem]

43. No...

The foundation of religion is bankrupt, any ideology that rests on it will continue to falter as the population becomes more educated and progressive.

[cbayer]

47. Yep, bankrupt ideas generally last thousands of years and involve billions of believers,

even as populations become more educated and progressive.

Yep, that's the ticket.

[MellowDem]

48. They do last thousands of years...

People have only become relatively educated and progressive recently, and at a much faster pace than in the past, so it's not surprising that the bankrupt idea of religion is falling fast in the developed world and still thriving and wrecking havoc in the developing world.

[cbayer]

50. People have only become relatively educated and progressive recently?

I think the word "relatively" makes your whole sentence incorrect.

Things have progressed very rapidly at different times in human existence, yet religion has persisted.

Religion is here to stay, MD, whether you like it or not.

[MellowDem]

51. Yes, for thousands of years...

We've never seen the increase in the rates of education like we have in the last two centuries. It's exponential compared to any other time in history.

Religion will be playing a much smaller role as people become more educated.

[skepticscott]

49. How long did the idea of slavery last?

How many billions of people thought it was perfectly fine?

[skepticscott]

46. I guess it's silly

for us to expect you to actually read what you post before you post it.

[rug]

52. No sillier than expecting an impartial comment on it from you.