Can atheism be a kind of salvation? n/t

[Plantaganet]

[laconicsax]

1. Maybe. n/t

[1ProudAtheist]

2. It Sure Is

A great alternative to mind control through fear, and living one's life just to appease a ficticious manifestation of man's inferiority complex.

[safeinOhio]

3. Take a look at Secular Humanism and Ethical Culture.

No belief in a god needed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
Secular Humanism, alternatively known as Humanism (often with a capital H to distinguish it from other forms of humanism), is a secular philosophy. It embraces human reason, ethics, and justice while specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, pseudoscience or superstition as the basis of morality and decision-making.
Though it posits that human beings are capable of being ethical and moral without religion or God, it neither assumes humans to be inherently evil or innately good, nor presents humans as "above nature" or superior to it. Rather, the Humanist life stance emphasizes the unique responsibility facing humanity and the ethical consequences of human decisions. Fundamental to the concept of Secular Humanism is the strongly held viewpoint that ideology — be it religious or political — must be thoroughly examined by each individual and not simply accepted or rejected on faith. Along with this, an essential part of Secular Humanism is a continually adapting search for truth, primarily through science and philosophy.

[Walk away]

4. It saved me from a childhood of wasted Sunday mornings!

It also saved me asking "what would Jesus do?" instead I just ask myself "What am I going to do?" and that's what it's really all about.

[GliderGuider]

5. First ask yourself, do you need saving?

From what?
Why?

[saras]

14. Precisely. The sad truth is that some people do, and some of them grossly misinterpret "from what"?

If Jesus saves -- well, He'd better save Himself
from the gory glory seekers who use His name in death.

Ian Anderson, Jethro Tull, Hymn 43

[Plantaganet]

17. Great band, btw! n/t

[Kurmudgeon]

6. Nah, it's just disbelief. Nothing more, nothing less. Saves you from nothing.

[laconicsax]

7. It can actually save you from lots.

It can save you from dissonant cognitions, having to get up early on a Sunday, arbitrary (and pointless) dietary rules, being ashamed of your own sexuality, etc.

[Kurmudgeon]

22. Again, nah. Human nature is human nature.

If religion wasn't around, something else would be found to rail against.

[laconicsax]

23. That's a fine response.

Too bad it has nothing to do with what I said.

[ZombieHorde]

8. If a person is tormented by their belief in a god, and then that person converted to atheism,

then we could say that person was saved from the negative belief.

So atheism can be a kind of salvation, but it is not always a kind of salvation.

[saras]

9. Define salvation in a way that the people who use the term all agree with, then come back and ask...

An outsider would say that salvation seems to describe, in many cases, a very specific emotional conversion experience, where a relatively fundamental viewpoint is altered, thereby changing someone's emotional response to, and judgment of, their own life history.

I think it would be possible for someone raised with bad religion, for example, to have such an experience when they realize that the universe they can relate to, and not a transcendent humanoid, is what they have to interact with to continue learning and growth. Sasha Shulgin describes such an event in his book Pikhal, although it isn't specifically religious in content...

It was an hour into the experiment, and still no acknowledgment of any activity from the MDMA. Then, came the unexpected question, the "off the wall" question.
"Is it all right to be alive?"
"You bet your sweet ass it's all right to be alive! It's a grace to be alive!"
That was it. She plunged into the MDMA state, and started running down the hill, calling out that it was all right to be alive. All the greens became living greens and all the sticks and stones became vital sticks and stones.

But I think that's not what usually happens. And I certainly don't think that most Christians would agree that this is an example of salvation.

[GliderGuider]

10. +1 That experience sure sounds like salvation to me.

I keep meaning to read that book.

Thanks.

[Plantaganet]

11. Aye.

There's the rub.

My definition of salvation would have to be something along the lines of:

- Being a generally contented individual
- Able to give and receive love
- Understanding yourself and, therefore, others...

All concepts very much related to this world. Rejection of "hell" as a state of mind that renders your life devoid of meaning.

But the truly pious would frame it as something that takes place after death because that's their frame of reference.

[cleanhippie]

12. Being a theist or an atheist will neither deliver any of that.

You can deliver those qualities to yourself anytime you wish. Belief nor disbelief in a god have nothing to do with it at all.

[Plantaganet]

16. Yes, precisely.

For instance, as a gay teen I was really tortured with thoughts of going to hell.

And, as a result, I left the Catholic church. Many people share this story.

When God... "died," so to speak, that's when I began to repair myself. Therapy, meditation, etc.

But religion had to be eliminated in order for me to get better.

So it's an interesting paradox. Leaving religion made me happier - happiest.

Atheism led to salvation. Curious.

[GliderGuider]

18. If religion is the source of your suffering, then atheism represents liberation.

I prefer the term "liberation" rather than salvation, because the word "salvation" binds you to the framework you're trying to leave.

[Plantaganet]

20. Ahhhh...

Excellent point!

[Brettongarcia]

13. Belief in Reason; a kind of salvation?

[GliderGuider]

15. This kind of salvation can be found in a good meditation course

Especially if you couple it with a valid "human potential" program that emphasizes inner inquiry and self-discovery. (Landmark need not apply, IMO).

I did three years of study with a small program called The Inner Journey that offered exactly that, and that is exactly what I got out of it.

ETA: And it works for theists and atheists alike.

[no_hypocrisy]

19. More like self realization than salvation.

When I finally understood there was no God and no Devil, I was finally able to determine my life without intervention or destiny. I was truly independent and autonomous. I don't sin; I make mistakes. I'm not promised heaven or hell when I die; I'll return to wherever I was before I was before I was born.

[backscatter712]

21. As an atheist, I would describe becoming an atheist as liberating.

I'm no longer worried about what some deity thinks of my actions. I act in accordance with my own judgments of what is right and wrong.

I'm no longer concerned with an afterlife that I'm convinced isn't real. I strive to live this life to its fullest and help others live better lives.

Religion, in my view, is a straitjacket for the mind. Taking it off feels good!

[FarCenter]

24. No

Since there is no god, there is no sin in the sense of a transgression against god-given ethical and moral rules. Therefore, there is no salvation in the sense of being saved from sin or the consequences of sin.

An atheist may transgress his own ethical and moral rules or the ethical and moral rules of his community, but that is a different problem to be solved psychologically and practically relative to himself and his community, without religious processes such as confession, repentance, atonement, and forgiveness relative to a god.

Since there is no life after death, there is no salvation in the sense of being saved from death, either via a union of the soul with god or via the resurrection of the body.

An atheist simply ceases to exist after death.

[PassingFair]

25. If you consider acceptance to be salvation.

“We are afraid of the known and afraid of the unknown. That is our daily life and in that there is no hope, and therefore every form of philosophy, every form of theological concept, is merely an escape from the actual reality of what is. All outward forms of change brought about by wars, revolutions, reformations, laws and ideologies have failed completely to change the basic nature of man and therefore of society.”

-Thomas Jefferson


Atheism is basically the acceptance of the unknow-ability of our lot.

I don't see it as "salvation", I see it as reality.

[dmallind]

26. From what?

From wasting a lot of time, expense and misguided priorities in life? I guess.

Salvific from some kind of divinely established damnation for either individual or racial sin? Obviously not. If such salvation were a possibility, atheism would be wrong.

[The Straight Story]

27. Whom has it 'saved' and how you define being saved? (nt)