Atheists dislike Mansfield's Good Friday policy

[rug]

6:59 AM, Mar. 3, 2012

MANSFIELD -- Atheist groups are objecting to a long-standing city policy that appears to allow municipal employees an hour's pay for time off to attend church services on Good Friday.

City officials say no employees have received cash and the poorly worded policy, which has been used through at least three mayors, will be rewritten.

"If you were going to take time off on Good Friday, you had to take some kind of accrued leave that you had earned -- vacation pay, comp time or personal days," Mansfield human resources director Dave Remy said Friday. "But you're not getting 'paid' to go to a religious service.

"It had to be taken as some kind of accrued leave -- vacation pay, comp time or personal days."

http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20120303/NEWS01/203030304/Atheists-dislike-Mansfield-s-Good-Friday-policy?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage

[Walk away]

1. As a life long Atheist I have no objections to this policy..

as long as everyone else get's a paid hour off on a day that they choose. If these people really need that hour off they should have it. And so should the rest of the employees. And I say this as a small business owner.

[cleanhippie]

2. Aaaand was there a point to be made here?

[rug]

3. Apparently, according to FFRF.

"Officials from the Freedom From Religion Foundation in Wisconsin, and from Mid Ohio Atheists, had written Mayor Tim Theaker, asking him to amend city policy to one that does not discriminate against non-Christians."

[Goblinmonger]

6. Do you agree with the FFRF in this instance? n/t

[rug]

8. No. n/t

[laconicsax]

9. Nice to see you standing up for religious discrimination.

Actually, that's wrong--it isn't nice to see you standing up for religious discrimination.

[rug]

10. That is, of course, a ridiculous statement.

Back it up.

[laconicsax]

11. The FFRF has asked the mayor to change a discriminitory policy, you disagree with that action.

therefore, you prefer the city keep a discriminatory policy.

[rug]

12. No, a FFREF characterization does not establish fact.

It wold be discriminatory if that were the only group whose religious beliefs were accommodated.

Admit your bias, don't mislead that you oppose religious discrimination. Deny that you believe any group's religious beliefs should be accommodated, no matter how minimally.

[laconicsax]

15. You might want to try reading your own article

"Employees who have other beliefs, and non-believers, wouldn't be eligible to take an hour off to attend an atheist meeting, or something like that," Markert said. "It is creating discrimination."

I also notice you're not even touching the fact that paying government employees to go to church is a clear violation of Church/State separation.

[rug]

21. You might want to simply try reading attentively.

You're quoting an FFRF staff attorney.

[laconicsax]

30. Yes. I'm quoting someone who has read and understands the policy.

You can look at this one of two ways:

1) The quote accurately represents the policy in question.
2) The quote misrepresents the policy in question.

If you choose option 1, you have to acknowledge the discriminatory nature of the policy and again decide if you're for or against religious discrimination.

If you choose option 2, you have to note that at no point does the article counter the quote and acknowledge that such a news source has little or no professional integrity and that by uncritically accepting and citing it, you weakened your own credibility.

FWIW: I'd prefer you chose option #2.

[rug]

31. How do you know she's read and understands it?

Have you?

[laconicsax]

33. Assuming the article you posted is telling the truth, then yes I have.

Did you not notice the portion of the article which quotes the policy?

It reads:

"City employees attending a church service on Good Friday will be permitted to use their normal lunch break plus one hour. Any other time taken by the employee will need to be their own accrued time requested according to normal procedures. Offices must remain open during this time."

The FFRF asked that they change that to read "City employees attending a church service on Good Friday will do so at their own accrued time."

[Goblinmonger]

17. Stay classy, rug.

So you are fine with a policy that would allow one group publicly employed to take time off from work while denying the same right to others just because of their religious (or non-religious) choices?

How exactly do you deal with the cognitive dissonance between that stance and being a progressive?

[rug]

20. Stay classy, Goblinmonger.

What other group is planning to take time off to attend church services on Good Friday?

Accomodations should be made when necessary. You should familiarize yourself with the NYC fall school calendar.

[Goblinmonger]

22. Seriously?

"What other group is planning to take time off to attend church services on Good Friday?" is a real response from you? Why should one group that is employed by the government be given special rights just because of their religion. Maybe I want to go worship at the alter of Richard Dawkins on Good Friday. Why shouldn't I get my hour off?

Does the NYC fall school calendar only give Catholic dates off?

[rug]

23. Far from it. Check the calendar.

Now if you do in fact want to worship at the altar of Richard Dawkins on Good Friday, move to Mansfield, Ohio and make your case that it's a religious accomodarion.

[Goblinmonger]

24. Why does the city have to give a religious accomodation

and clearly state that non-Catholics would not get the accommodation? I don't have to move there. I have their policy to read which you posted. It's bullshit. The fact that you don't see that seems....well...par for the course for you, I guess.

[rug]

25. Really? I've been looking for the text of the policy but I haven't found it.

Please post it.

[Goblinmonger]

26. I'm going by your awesome article.

If there is some problem with what you posted, why don't you fix the problem. Otherwise, I'll go with what you post.

[rug]

27. This awesome article discusses the policy, it doesn't recite it.

[Goblinmonger]

28. OK, same point. I'm going with what you posted.

I'm discussion it. If there is a problem with what you posted or if you think something is lacking in what you posted, then go ahead and fix it. Otherwise, it seems pretty odd that you are trying to discredit me for going with what you posted.

[rug]

29. You said there was a problem with it, not me.

Journalists rarely post the text of a document they report on.

[laconicsax]

32. Except they did.

Atheist websites posted copies of a directive sent to all employees Dec. 15 by Service-Safety Director Lori Cope. It named 11 days city offices will be closed for holidays throughout the year.

The memo added: "City employees attending a church service on Good Friday will be permitted to use their normal lunch break plus one hour. Any other time taken by the employee will need to be their own accrued time requested according to normal procedures. Offices must remain open during this time."

Did you read the whole article before you posted it?

[rug]

34. It is an excerpt: "The memo added:"

The entire memorandum discussed 11 days, not simply an hour on Good Friday.

Keep digging.

[laconicsax]

35. Yes, it discussed the 11 days on which the offices would be closed.

In case you're wondering, those 11 days are the "legal holidays" described in the Ohio Revised Codes http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/gp1.14

Since city offices are closed on those days, all employees would be in the same boat.

[cleanhippie]

14. And? Not seeing the point, unless you are just providing this for general information.

[Jim__]

4. Winning the hearts and minds of working people everywhere. - n/t

[laconicsax]

5. Why should a group of employees get paid time off on the basis of their religion?

[Goblinmonger]

7. Non-Christians aren't working people?

Do you agree that if the city has that policy they need to just give everyone and hour off regardless of the reason and the religious can use it for their purpose?

[cbayer]

13. In New Orleans, it wasn't Good Friday that involved accomodation, it was Ash Wednesday.

Most Catholics wanted to receive their ashes. I never saw a situation where they were not accommodated, though it might have occurred.

It was just seen as respectful.

[Goblinmonger]

19. That view of respect, of course, comes from a position of privilege.

What if I need the time off for something that is important to me, but I'm not a Catholic so I don't get it, as per the article?

[madrchsod]

16. what`s the problem?

it`s not costing anyone other than the person who is taking off. remember ..this is the workers personal time and their choice. if the city feels that to many employees are taking this time off and it would hinder operations then they would put a sign up sheet. i worked at a plant where people signed up for good friday at the start of the year.

much to do about nothing

[Goblinmonger]

18. If I, as a non-Catholic, had a need to take an hour of my time

the article makes it pretty clear that I would not be allowed to do so because that option is only afforded to members of a certain religious sect.

Add to that that this is a public employee. You don't see some first amendment violations there (hint: google endorsement clause if you don't already know the answer)?