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rug

(82,333 posts)
Mon Jan 27, 2014, 07:43 PM Jan 2014

Can you be a Jewish atheist? Ask this Humanist Rabbi

Chris Stedman | Jan 27, 2014

Can you be a Jewish atheist? It depends on who you ask.

Nontheistic Judaism has been a big topic of discussion recently. First, Pew released a major study on the American Jewish community a few months ago, finding that 68% of American Jews believe that there is no conflict between being a nontheist and being Jewish. Then, in a Tablet profile published last month, American Atheists president David Silverman argued the opposite: that Judaism is incompatible with atheism, and that you can’t be a nontheist and Jewish.

At the same time, communities for nontheists have been a hot topic as of late, garnering headlines throughout 2013. (It was one of my top atheism stories of the year.) But Humanistic Judaism has offered a community for nontheist Jews for decades.

To learn more about these overlapping issues I spoke with Rabbi Jeffrey L. Falick, who currently serves as the rabbi of The Birmingham Temple in Farmington Hills, Michigan. Originally a member of the Reform movement, Rabbi Falick—who strongly disagreed with Silverman in a post on his blog—got involved in Humanistic Judaism in 2009. Today he serves as president of the Association of Humanistic Rabbis and as a member of the Executive Committee of the Society for Humanistic Judaism.

http://chrisstedman.religionnews.com/2014/01/27/can-jewish-atheist-ask-humanist-rabbi/

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Can you be a Jewish atheist? Ask this Humanist Rabbi (Original Post) rug Jan 2014 OP
I am a Jewish atheist. immoderate Jan 2014 #1
That's what I thought Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #5
I have also come to the conclusion that... Meshuga Jan 2014 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author DesertFlower Jan 2014 #3
Yes. I am. LeftishBrit Jan 2014 #4
In one common translation, "Rabbi" just means "teacher" Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #6
But Silverman is Jewish and an atheist. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #7
Here he is trying to explain himself for 102 minutes. rug Jan 2014 #8
I wish I had the time, let alone the bandwidth. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #13
Silverman disagrees with you and has his justifications for his position Meshuga Jan 2014 #9
Interesting. I am no expert on Judaism. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #10
There is a unity... Meshuga Jan 2014 #11
Thanks for the explanation. That's pretty much how a perceived it. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #12
 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
1. I am a Jewish atheist.
Mon Jan 27, 2014, 07:53 PM
Jan 2014

It was from reading Isaac Asimov's books on the bible, that I recognized that Judaism is a tribal identity. It comprises more than religion.

It's also significant that Jews don't care what you believe. It rarely comes up. In my experience it's more important what you do.

--imm


Meshuga

(6,182 posts)
2. I have also come to the conclusion that...
Mon Jan 27, 2014, 08:53 PM
Jan 2014

...I am a Jewish atheist after all. Being Jewish is being part of a people and its heritage that you are born into. Unlike being Christian where you adhere to the label because of your religious beliefs.

Even out of those who call themselves "believing Jews," a huge number of them adhere to a non-theistic god idea (as in Mordechai Kaplan teachings which are a very influential in Judaism today). I used to be one a Kaplanian Jew given my non-orthodox background but eventually came to the conclusion that I don't need the religious jargon to feel that I am part of the tribe.

Response to rug (Original post)

LeftishBrit

(41,212 posts)
4. Yes. I am.
Tue Jan 28, 2014, 06:32 AM
Jan 2014

Being Jewish is as much an ethnic as a religious identity, and there are many people who identify with Jewish heritage and culture, but are not religious.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
7. But Silverman is Jewish and an atheist.
Wed Jan 29, 2014, 12:08 PM
Jan 2014

Is he in denial of his ethnicity? Being a atheist makes him no less Jewish than if he were to convert to christianity or islam.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
13. I wish I had the time, let alone the bandwidth.
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 10:31 AM
Jan 2014

The internet gets a little sketchy at times, down here.

Meshuga

(6,182 posts)
9. Silverman disagrees with you and has his justifications for his position
Wed Jan 29, 2014, 09:51 PM
Jan 2014

I think he makes a good case for himself so I respect his point of view and his wishes to be disconnected from Jewish peoplehood. He has some points I agree with but I also disagree with him in many of his points making me come to different conclusions.

From my point of view, if I were to use his argument, I could only come to the conclusion that even most of the religious Jews (I am not even talking about atheist Jews) are not really Jewish because the Judaism that exists today are variations of Pharisaic Judaism that only came about 100 years or so BCE. Biblical Judaism pretty much died with the fall of the second temple since without the temple in Jerusalem there was no way to practice Biblical Judaism. So, because of that, a variation of Rabbinical Judaism is all there is today. There was never one religious Judaism but there were always different religious Judaisms in the same way that there are different Jews from different backgrounds. So religion and belief is not really a good glue since Jews disagree in regards to belief. Heritage is more of the glue even if it is a farce as he puts. In any case, my background is Sephardic and I disagree that torah and religion is what links me to those with Ashkenazim background. There is more to it.

There is something bigger (that is non-religious) that gives me a sense of belonging and connection. Silverman doesn't want to call this connection a cultural, a national, or a tribal connection. But call it what you will, I don't see it as a religious connection and it is certainly not bound by the Hebrew Bible. Unless you want to call that bond as a historical bond.

Jews were always forced to form a nation within other nations since they were always seen as outsiders. Only after Jewish emancipation (when Jews were allowed to be citizens of countries where they lived) that Jews had to learn to live as citizens outside their closed communities. That emancipation is what spawned Jewish movements like the Reform movement to come about and (like Silverman) reject Jewish peoplehood in favor of reducing it to a religion as a reaction to maintain Jewish survival.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
10. Interesting. I am no expert on Judaism.
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 01:41 AM
Jan 2014

My understanding was always that Judaism is the religion practised by the Jewish people, and that ethnic Jews shared a common ancestry, principally via the mother. I guess i was wrong.

Meshuga

(6,182 posts)
11. There is a unity...
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 09:55 AM
Jan 2014

...As a people even when Silverman denies it to justify cutting his own ties with the Jewish people. Which is okay for himself. But I disagree with him for my own experience as many others in my position do as well.

Regardless, religion is not really the tie to Jewish peoplehood even if it makes it easier for Silverman to justify his own reasons. There was never consensus on religion and belief in most (if not all) of Jewish history.

The Jewish story is not that of a certain belief and truth but of heritage and survival. Religious beliefs/disbelief and practices were always different and reason for contention.

Jewish and Judaism are two different things. Farse or not, there is a sense of Jewish peoplehood that developed over the centuries regardless of different Jewish beliefs, doubts, or practices.

Regarding Judaism, there are multiple Judaisms that are practiced by different Jews. Orthodox Judaism is a religion based on the Shulchan Aruch which was written in the 16th century, Conservative Judaism looks at the Talmud and the community for its religious practice, Reform Judaism rejects Jewish Law as binding and uses the ethics of the prophets in the tanakh to make their religion based on social justice. They all have different approaches and opinions but see each other as Jews regardless of belief or lack of belief and cultural/regional background.

Just because outsiders think that being Jewish implies certain beliefs in a Jewish religion (which is not even true for believing Jews) it is not good reason for me to deny my Jewish heritage and also label myself an atheist. I have no issues with Silverman or anyone cutting ties but I won't define myself a certain way just because others can't see the difference.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
12. Thanks for the explanation. That's pretty much how a perceived it.
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 10:27 AM
Jan 2014

Judaism, the religion is not a prerequisite to being Jewish and the survival and endurance of an entire people. I have many atheist friends who are proud to be Jewish.

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