Love and Death In the House of Prayer

[Warren Stupidity]

Tyler Deaton, a self-appointed apostle in one of the fastest-growing evangelical movements, loved Jesus, Harry Potter and, much to his dismay, other men. When his wife turned up dead, the secrets began to spill out

On October 30th, 2012, at 9:40 p.m., sheriff's deputies responded to a report of a dead body at Longview Lake Picnic Shelter No. 12, in Kansas City, Missouri. A tan Ford Windstar van occupied the far-northwest space of the parking lot. In the van's back seat, deputies found the body of a young woman. A white plastic trash bag had been pulled over her head and tied under her chin. She wore running shoes, black sweatpants, a light-blue fleece and a diamond wedding ring. A pair of eyeglasses had been folded and placed in a cup holder.

A handwritten note on the center console acknowledged the evil of suicide and alluded to a terrible choice made long before. Also on the console were two hundred-count bottles of acetaminophen PM, one unopened, the other empty. A photo ID for "Bethany (RN, Menorah Medical Center)" lay on the floorboard. Bethany Deaton was 27 and had recently completed her nursing degree. Her supervisor would later describe her as an excellent, empathetic nurse. On the front seat were several CDs produced by the International House of Prayer, a charismatic Christian movement based in Kansas City and the nearby suburb of Grandview. The adherents of IHOP, as it is generally known, believe that the Second Coming will soon occur and that God needs their help to return Christ to Earth.

Bethany had moved to Grandview nearly four years earlier, after graduating from Southwestern University, a small liberal-arts school in Georgetown, Texas. She had belonged to an IHOP worship group there, and most of the prayer circle's 20 or so members had relocated to Grandview, where they lived in two gender-segregated houses about four miles apart. In August, Bethany had married the worship group's leader, Tyler Deaton. It wasn't clear to people outside the group what would have motivated Bethany to take her own life. For years, she had longed to marry Tyler, and they had envisioned themselves enduring the Tribulation together. But the Jackson County Medical Examiner's Office ruled Bethany's death a suicide, and her body was released to her family for burial in her hometown of Arlington, Texas.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/love-and-death-in-the-house-of-prayer-20140121#ixzz2rQsL01N1
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[muriel_volestrangler]

1. A long and bizarre read

Cults - it's a world and mentality I can't understand at all. I've never known anyone who's ever looked at all vulnerable enough to get involved in them.

[cbayer]

2. Agree. I tried to read this the other day when

I first saw it, but it lost me early.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. I could see why you would find the article very uncomfortable reading.

Best to dismiss it as "cult" behavior.

[cbayer]

4. And what is your synopsis of the article?

[trotsky]

5. Do you think a god spoke to Tyler, and told him to do those things?

Careful, if you don't have *proof* that a god didn't then you have no right to say otherwise.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. A group of very religious people developed shared religious delusions that resulted in sociopathic

behavior, including it seems rape and murder. They were practicing their religion according to their beliefs. This was not one person acting alone, it was an entire group of people. I think that pretending that delusional thinking is not only harmless, but appropriate when it is cloaked in the mantel of religiosity results in societies that propagate this kind of nonsense, along with all sorts of other kinds of religion based nonsense. It is a very small step from believing in utter bullshit, to acting on those beliefs. In fact, if one truly believes in the absurd myths and legends of standard religions, acting on those beliefs seems to be the right thing to do. If your god says slay me a son, well then grab that child and start slaying. It is a very small step from believing that your holy book is the word of your god, to putting 'bad' women in pits and stoning them to death. It is a very small step from hearing your priest rail against the evils of abortion to blowing up a women's health clinic.

HOP is not a cult, it is part of the mainstream fundamentalist evangelical protestant christian religion.

[cbayer]

7. So what is your definition of a cult as opposed to religion.

If you take the position that all religions are cults, then you are not going to be able to distinguish (and most likely have no interest in doing so).

How do you distinguish a serious psychiatric illness, which this guy clearly had, from non-pathological belief?

If you take the position that all religious people have a serious psychiatric illness, then you are not going to be able to distinguish (and most likely have no interest in doing so).

Delusional behavior certainly can become dangerous, but since the vast majority of religious people aren't delusional, we are probably safe in our beds at night. Most non-religious people aren't delusional either, but some are. We are still probably safe.

It's a giant step from being a religious believer to what happened here.

But if you can't distinguish that, you are never going to understand it.

IHOP may not be a cult, but this splinter group meets all the criteria.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. Cult is not well defined, but certainly "bad outcome" is a dishonest definition.

HOP is part of the mainstream fundamentalist evangelical protestant christian religion.

[cbayer]

10. Yes, IHOP is.

Do you think that most of the members are in line with this guy? Do you think IHOP would say that he was working within what is normally seen as the framework for their group?

It's not just about a bad outcome, it's about a splinter group led by someone who appears to have actually crossed the line into a serious psychiatric illness.

It's really important to be able to distinguish those things when looking at something like this.

[skepticscott]

13. Oh, so now you're trying to dismiss

deeply held religious beliefs that are too far outside the pale as mental illness, when you keep scolding other people for saying that some religious people are deluded or have other mental health problems? Not only hypocrisy, cbayer, but a really lousy attempt at No True Scotsman.

Do you ever stop?

[Act_of_Reparation]

15. I doubt Deaton is psychologically ill.

He's been invested with enormous power and influence over others. You know what they say about power and corruption.

[cbayer]

16. You honestly read this and do not think he is psychologically ill?

I hope you are not in the profession, lol.

[Act_of_Reparation]

17. What would be your professional diagnosis?

Please, illuminate me.

[cbayer]

18. It would, of course, be unprofessional for any practitioner to make a

diagnosis without examining the patient.

But information available would lead pretty much anyone to believe that he had some kind of psychotic illness.


But I will illuminate you if you wish, lol.

[Act_of_Reparation]

19. And why "would pretty much anyone" believe that?

I'm interested to know how you arrived at your conclusion. Spare me the snark.

[cbayer]

20. Because the behaviors and thought patterns that are described fit the diagnostic criteria

for psychotic symptoms.

Again, it would be unprofessional for anyone to actually diagnose him without an examination, but I think most lay people would recognize this to be outside of what one would consider normal behavior or thought patterns.

While he might have another disorder that would be causing this, and that would have to be ruled out, he might have a purely psychiatric disorder as well.

Do you find his behavior and thought patterns normal?

Even the rather extreme group with which he had initially affiliated himself found him so bizarre that they disowned him.

[Act_of_Reparation]

21. "Normal" is a setting on a washing machine...

...or so my professors always told me.

While Deaton's behaviors and thoughts seem strange, they are lacking in one criteria I understand to be crucial to psychosis: disorganization.

Deaton's bizarre beliefs--the end times, tribulation, the non-stop prayer--are internally consistent with his religion, and his thought patterns show a kind of logical organization within that framework. That he was able to form and administer a religious organization, and that he was able to rationalize his seemingly contradictory actions via scripture and ritualization, belies drive and focus atypical of psychotics.

That he was using his followers for sexual purposes is hardly outside the pale, historically speaking. Joseph Smith used his self-proclaimed authority to take multiple wives, many of whom were already married to other men. David Koresh did the same. Ted Haggard. Eddie Long. There is a new story of a holy man taking sexual advantage of his followers literally every week.

And, it is worth pointing out Deaton's followers didn't abandon him until after one of them confessed to the killing.

Without an examination from a trained professional, we can't know anything for certain, but I do think it is responsible to explain away any behavior we find deviant as symptomatic of mental illness. Most mentally ill people are not violent, and most violent people are not mentally ill. We ought not to be reinforcing undeserved stereotypes and unwarranted fears with unnecessary speculation.

[cbayer]

22. Professors of what?

Normal is a medical term that means much more than just a setting on a washing machine and is used extensively when discussing health and disease.

Disorganization is generally a critical symptom in schizophrenia, but not necessarily in other psychotic disorders. There are illnesses (and personality disorders) that may include high levels of grandiosity and highly organized behaviors.

So, if you are only looking at schizophrenia, you might be right. But if you look at the whole spectrum of psychotic disorders, you would be wrong.

In addition, there are other illnesses not generally considered psychiatric that can cause a person to exhibit psychotic symptoms. Until those are ruled out, one can't really come to a conclusion about what the problem here is.

But there is clearly a problem.

He is not the first charismatic and psychotic person to gather a group around him who are wholly dedicated. Think Jim Jones, Charles Manson and others. They know exactly who to recruit.

While you are right, I can't be certain, but I'd bet the farm on a serious psychiatric illness with this one.

This doesn't reinforce a stereotype. You are right, psychiatric patients are much more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators of violence. But recognition of a propensity for violence in a patient with a serious psychiatric illness is critical and to deny that it would exist at all is foolhardy, at best.

[Act_of_Reparation]

24. Agrostology

Normal is a medical term that means much more than just a setting on a washing machine and is used extensively when discussing health and disease.

The point they were trying to make, I'm sure, is that a thought or behavior cannot be thought of as symptomatic of illness based on how strange it seems to you. There's no such thing as "normal" human behavior. One can be "abnormal" without being pathological.

So, if you are only looking at schizophrenia, you might be right. But if you look at the whole spectrum of psychotic disorders, you would be wrong.

Except disorganization is a major trait of Schizophreniforms, Schizoaffectives, and Brief Psychotic Episodes, which make up the bulk of that spectrum. There only two psychotic disorders listed by the DSM in which is disorganization is not explicitly mentioned in the diagnosis criteria.

You could argue Deaton has Delusional Disorder, but you've already stated his behavior is obviously bizarre.

He is not the first charismatic and psychotic person to gather a group around him who are wholly dedicated. Think Jim Jones, Charles Manson and others. They know exactly who to recruit.

Manson has always seemed to me more antisocial than psychotic. I think he knows perfectly well what is normative and socially acceptable, but simply doesn't give a shit.

[cbayer]

25. Had to look up agrostology.

You mean there is no normal and abnormal in that field. Weird.

Er, murder is not just strange to me. There is normal behavior and it doesn't include that. One can not define disease without defining normal.

It's not a hallmark of some phases of Bipolar Disorder and not a necessary criteria for any of the disorders you have listed. It's also not a hallmark of psychotic episodes that may be induced by toxic states, drugs or certain brain disorders. Not being disorganized in no way rules out any of these things. It's merely a single symptom that may or may not be present.

I'm not arguing that he has any disorder in particular, just that something is very wrong with him and it appears that it is probably psychiatric.

If I'm going to make an argument here, it will be that people like this don't or can't get appropriate evaluation and treatment that might prevent tragedies such as this.

[Act_of_Reparation]

28. What defines "disease" not the strangeness of the behavior, but its impact

Er, murder is not just strange to me. There is normal behavior and it doesn't include that.

That seems to contradict what you said before. Most violent criminals aren't mentally ill, and that includes murderers.

One can not define disease without defining normal.

Traditionally, psychologists have defined pathological behaviors as those which have a significant impact on one's socio-occupational functioning.

It's not a hallmark of some phases of Bipolar Disorder and not a necessary criteria for any of the disorders you have listed. It's also not a hallmark of psychotic episodes that may be induced by toxic states, drugs or certain brain disorders. Not being disorganized in no way rules out any of these things. It's merely a single symptom that may or may not be present.

That's true, but all that really leaves us with are delusions and/or hallucinations. Short of strapping him into a PET to see if his mesolimbic pathway lights up like a Christmas tree, we can't really verify whether he is 1) hallucinating, 2) lying, or 3) really believes God communicates to him through prayer, just like millions of other Christians across the planet.

This case reminds me of the Lafferty Murders, covered by Jon Krakauer in Under the Banner of Heaven. FLDS troglodyte Ron Lafferty commanded his brother, via God of course, to kill Ron's ex-wife and infant child. Despite claiming to have received a hitlist from the Big Man Upstairs, both men were deemed competent to stand trial.

Why? Because personal revelation isn't unusual within FLDS circles; practically everyone believes it, or at least claims to, and it isn't unusual for people to claim to have received it. This end times nonsense and prayer-all-the-time schtick may seem strange to you and me, but I assure you, in some circles of Christianity it is not. Proving that Deaton is insane and not a true believer in these things would, I think, be an uphill battle. I'm fairly certain that if he were ever dragged in front of a jury, he would be found mentally competent to stand trial.

[cbayer]

29. Let's back up here a minute.

If you are trying to make the argument that this guy doesn't have a significant psychiatric disorder then I don't think we have anything else to talk about here.

We are speaking a different language here, probably based on our own unique education, training and experience.

Competency to stand trial is a completely different issue. Many people with psychiatric illnesses will become competent to stand trial with treatment. That doesn't change the fact of their illness. The real issue is whether he would be able to pull off a not guilty by reason of insanity plea.

[Act_of_Reparation]

30. I misspoke on that one; hadn't had my coffee yet...

I shouldn't have said "competent to stand trial"; the Laffertys tried for a "not guilty by reason of insanity" judgement and were denied. Elder brother Ron was sentenced to death, while Dan was sentenced to life.

I think we both know successful insanity pleas are exceedingly rare; if Deaton ever goes to trial, his chances of being judged insane and therefore not guilty are practically negligible.

[cbayer]

31. NGRI is really difficult.

One can have a major illness and still be guilty. It comes down to knowing the difference between right and wrong at the time the crime was committed.

One can be declared "insane" and still be found guilty.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. "Deaton's bizarre beliefs--the end times, tribulation, the non-stop prayer" - are not very bizarre

in fundamentalist evangelical protestant religions.

[Heddi]

8. It seems to many people on this board and in real life

the difference between a "cult" and an "acceptable religion" is whether or not they agree with it.

Don't believe in it? CULT !!!

Believe in it : oh well those are just deeply held beliefs and who are we to judge?

[rug]

12. Here's a more intelligent description.

http://www.cultclinic.org/qa3.html

Are you having problems with this board, Heddi?

[trotsky]

14. Or the closest they can come to defining a cult is the old...

"I know it when I see it."

Which is ironic coming from the same folks who say everyone's view is subjective and has meaning only for them, so who the hell are you to judge the beliefs of others?

But they never see that.

[rug]

11. It is a cult.

Its founder, Mike Bickle, came out of Joel's Army, yes, another cult.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2008/fall/arming-for-armageddon

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. Via Slacktivist: What Rolling Stone didn't tell you about Tyler Deaton

Republic of Gilead directs us to another source offering additional information and perspective on the story Tietz covers so well. Blogger Kendall Beachey was a classmate of Tyler Deaton’s at IHOPU — the church’s unaccredited Bible college. He knew this group of IHOP disciples quite well — although, as he says, it turns out not as well as he thought he did. Beachey offers an up-close, first-hand account:
...
Beachey’s account is fascinating in part because he is — or was — sympathetic to the peculiar form of religious devotion in which Deaton and his group had gotten swept up. He is fluent in the details of that little world and ably translates some of its idioms, conventions and mores for the rest of us. To an extent, though, he’s still more fluent in that language than in the one the rest of us speak, and some of what is most fascinating in Beachey’s series of posts is what he leaves untranslated — the way phrases like “prophetic word” or “forerunner” appear as matter-of-fact references to commonplace ideas.

Like Tietz, Beachey describes a culture of spiritual abuse and manipulation, yet he doesn’t see Tyler Deaton’s groups and its practices as an exception to the larger culture of IHOP. “What makes Deaton’s vision so different from Bickle’s?” he asks.

Beachey seems genuinely torn as to whether or not Micah Moore’s original confession of murder and serial rape can be believed. Moore is a troubled, suggestible young man — an easy target for manipulative “spiritual” leaders. That’s what makes his confession believable, but that’s also what makes it possible that he was manipulated into making that initial, sensational confession. That confession, among other things, shifted the blame and the focus of the criminal investigation away from the church and onto Deaton’s small cadre. Beachey notes that Shelley Hundley,* director of IHOP’s “Forerunner School of Ministry” seems to have played a large role in convincing Moore to make that initial confession, which seems to echo some of the themes from Hundley’s own sensational conversion testimony.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2014/01/27/international-house-of-pride-beware-of-gods-special-apostles-who-bring-the-prophetic-word-from-god-that-they-are-apostles-and-that-they-are-special/

At the November 12th meeting with staff and students, Mike Bickle (founder of IHOP and Chancellor of IHOPU) said he had never seen Deaton before. He claimed Deaton was so inconsequential at IHOP that Bickle didn’t recognize him by name or face.

While this may demonstrate Deaton’s lack of influence within IHOP as a whole, it does not absolve Bickle of IHOP’s knowledge of Deaton and his activities. In August of 2011, over a year before Bethany’s death, Stuart Greaves (Director of the Nightwatch, the six hour section of the prayer room going from 12-6 a.m., and on IHOP’s Executive Leadership Team) came to speak to me about what I knew of Deaton’s group. Students were telling their small group leaders they could not attend IHOP-hosted worship meetings because they were committed to going to Deaton’s worship meetings instead. Greaves and I argued. I advocated the students’ right to define their own schedules and base their activities around their personal values and goals. Greaves insisted that the students’ job was to submit to their leaders. “No student is above their teacher,” he told me, quoting Jesus to drive home his point. We also debated the subject of Boze Herrington (a former member of Deaton’s group who knew Tyler from Southwestern and contributed heavily to Tietz’s article) and his excommunication from the group — the full extent of which I was unaware of — and the concept of spiritual discipline in small group settings. In that meeting, Greaves told me he planned to meet with Deaton the next day and asked me not to mention our talk to Deaton until Greaves had a chance to meet with him.

When I talked to Deaton after his meeting with Greaves, he was visibly shaken. He described the conversation as feeling like emotional rape. He said Greaves would soften to him — causing Deaton to open up and be vulnerable — then would come down like a hammer when Deaton said something with which Greaves disagreed. A friend of Deaton’s (who supposedly served in the Army and later ran the group’s end times preparedness training) said Deaton’s description of his treatment sounded much like the types of interrogation tactics taught in military training to wear down and break a suspect. Having not been there, I cannot be sure what happened during Deaton’s multiple meetings with Greaves. Having, along with friends and acquaintances, been on the disagreeing end of taxing and, at times, spiritually and emotionally abusive meetings with Stuart Greaves, I can only say that Deaton’s treatment bears striking resemblance to that which myself and others have experienced.

Around this same time, Hundley received an unsolicited prophetic word via email from the group. Deaton and his group were fixated on Hundley and her story of childhood sexual abuse within a religious context while her parents were missionaries in Columbia. She has shared this story publicly on more than one occasion, most notably in the Turn Word prophecy she gave to IHOP. Deaton’s group felt that due to her unique past, Hundley was walling herself off from others and was, by extension, holding IHOP back from experiencing true community. When, the prophecy stated, Hundley opened herself to others it would bring IHOP as a whole into a new level of biblical community as well. Troubled by this email, Hundley accused Anthony,* a fellow faculty member at IHOPU (whom she subsequently forced into taking an involuntary “sabbatical” from teaching), of being behind the group, suspecting his involvement in Deaton’s formation. Seeing Anthony’s academic role as one of Deaton’s IHOPU instructors, Hundley misconstrued this classroom relationship as being a central influence on the more extreme elements of the Charismatic theology and practice in Deaton’s group. Responding to the prophecy, she informed the group to never email her like this again.

http://thecosmiccathedral.wordpress.com/2014/01/23/what-rolling-stone-didnt-tell-you-about-tyler-deaton/

[cbayer]

27. Curiouser and curiouser.