Liberal Christians: Santorum says none of you are Christians

[muriel_volestrangler]

ANSWER:
I could buy that. Again, yes, it goes to the larger question of whether I could buy that overall from that point of view. But is there such thing as a sincere liberal Christian, which says that we basically take this document and re-write it ourselves? Is that really Christian? That’s a bigger question for me. And the answer is, no, it’s not. I don’t think there is such a thing. To take what is plainly written and say that I don’t agree with that, therefore, I don’t have to pay attention to it, means you’re not what you say you are. You’re a liberal something, but you’re not a Christian. That’s sort of how I look at it.

When you go so far afield of that and take what is a salvation story and turn it into a liberation theology story, which is done in the Catholic world as well as in the evangelical world, you have abandoned Christendom, in my opinion. And you don’t have a right to claim it.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/rick-santorum-in-2008-theres-no-such-thing-as-a

Also under discussion in GD here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002338125

[rfranklin]

1. That's right, he follows Republican Jesus Christ and we follow the other guy...

who said help the sick and feed the poor.

Republican Jesus has a concealed carry permit and slays evil doers and lazy welfare cheaters wherever he goes. He also hates homos and immigrants.

[Goblinmonger]

2. And plenty of liberal Christians here say the conservatives one

aren't Christians either.

Round and round they go.

[rug]

4. What he's said reminds me of the accusations of cherry-picking made by nonbelievers.

[ZombieHorde]

14. I think atheists, conservative Christians, and liberal Christians all make accusations

of cherry picking, and rightfully so in my opinion.

By "all," I don't mean every single person in those three groups, but rather many vocal people within each of the three groups.

[Goblinmonger]

17. Both sides cherry pick.

That is the point of most atheists. I will offer up (which certainly is cherry picking, I guess) that which supports the other side when I see liberal christians cherry picking to dismiss the conservative christians, but I don't really have a horse in the race. I'm not arguing that one interpretation is the correct one according to the holy text since I don't think the text is holy. The point is that neither side has a monopoly on their interpretation and neither side wants to admit that but rather NTSs the other side.

[eqfan592]

27. WELL SAID! (nt)

[Angry Dragon]

3. I have set up a Christian testing site

It is the first and only Official Christian testing site in the world.

Fees are based on net worth sliding scale.
You will recieve a wallet sized Official Christian memnership card(laminated)
with a certificate suitable for framing. This is non-transferable.

[Brettongarcia]

5. One remedy for this problem with Santorum: point to liberal Christian ideas deep in Catholicism

First, note liberal Catholic cardinals: like Bernardin and McCarrick, say. These cardinals are not Christians? Those who think that are not, are not following Church authority, and are not following the Church.

One topical example? Catholic hospitals are Catholic - but they allow/offer contraception.

Another? When Jesus was asked what was the source of his authority? He said "the spirit/wind blows where it will."

Pretty liberal ideas.

Here liberal Christians could make themselves useful; generating hundreds more objections.

Santorum's pretty resistent to this stuff to be sure; but if you throw enough Bible quotes at a conservative, even he might eventually ... break down a bit.

I'm currently offering a rough working paper online, presenting 200 arguments, to the effect that the Bible and Catholic tradition, properly understood, allowed abortion.

Sometimes the biblical quotes get through.

Though? Maybe just direct confrontation, or turnabout; tell Santorum he's not a Christian. Be firm about it.

[LeftishBrit]

6. Firstly...

Santorum is not the Pope, and certainly isn't Jesus, and it's not up to him to say who is a Christian.

Secondly. how does he reconcile the words of the Bible about 'what you did not unto the least of these' and about rich men and camels, etc. with his version of Christianity.

Thirdly, he seems to want to impose some sort of religious dictatorship on America, based on HIS views of religion. How is this acceptable? Or particularly different from someone wanting Sharia law? (I used to call Palin 'the Ayatollah of Alaska', but he's worse than her, which is difficult!)

Fourthly it would be tempting for us Brits to be smug at this point about this sort of attitude not affecting Britain - but read this, by Tim Stanley in the Torygraph, and weep!

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100138208/british-politics-could-do-with-a-bit-of-rick-santorums-religion/

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. Amazingly, Stanley stood as a Labour candidate in 2005

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/100209/election-britain-america-campaign-england-president
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevenoaks_%28UK_Parliament_constituency%29

[msongs]

7. what part of the bible says a pope has the right to determine who goes to heaven or hell? nt

[madrchsod]

8. i got jesus on the mainline and he told me...

rickie ain`t getting past the pearly gate.

[bmbmd]

9. My theory is that Santorum's worldview

is seriously distorted and damaged by his wife. Karen, who was quite the hotty, spent several years of her life living with an older, sophisticated, worldy lady's man by the name of Tom Allen. I would certainly be intimidated if the love of my life was "entertained" by such a fellow in her earlier years, and would feel unable to compete. Santorum is bound to know that he can never measure up to Dr. Tom. Ergo, he has renounced love and affection and sexuality and free-spiritedness as evil, a demon to be conquered and avoided. He can't be as smart or sexy or funny or competent or interesting as Dr. Tom, so he chooses to be more fanatical, uptight (sweater vests?) and asexual.

[2ndAmForComputers]

11. Which just proves the NTS fallacy cuts both ways.

[bongbong]

12. I thought

I thought the Bible says that judgment of others is reserved by God.

The only "Bible" these right-wing nuts care about is the "Handbook Of Grifting & How To Fleece Your Flock"

[spin]

15. Good point...

Judging others is above our pay grade.

Luke 6:37-42

New International Version (NIV)

Judging Others
37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

39 He also told them this parable: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher.

41 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6%3A37-42&version=NIV

Excellent advice for a true Christian to follow.

[darkstar3]

13. I wonder if local NTS defenders will find THIS to be religious bigotry?

[Sal316]

18. Yes, it is.

Secondly, in the scriptures when Jesus preaches his first sermon, he reads the Isaiah scroll, which is a scroll of liberation.

Santorum's got it wrong.

[Humanist_Activist]

16. For the believer, they have to look in the mirror to find the only true christian in the world. n/t

[Bluerthanblue]

19. Santorum's opinion doesn't really matter.

unless he is 'Christ'.

[dmallind]

20. Does that go for others who say the same things?

That the "beat your baby to death for Jesus" Pearls aren't Christians? That the Phelpses aren't Christians? That this week's "I killed for God" life-time churchgoer isn't a Christian? Do these opinions matter when not coming from "Christ"? Are they more or less valid than Rick's and why?

[Bluerthanblue]

21. what is the value of a 'label'?

Last edited Thu Feb 23, 2012, 03:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Santorum is using his interpretation of the label to mean one thing- others (some who claim the label and others who detest it) have different standards of what 'being a christian' means.

Claiming a label or hiding behind a banner of any kind, doesn't really mean much in the end. You can call yourself a 'compassionate conservative'- and be selfish, lavish with your spending when it comes to your own pet projects. Does that label matter in reality?

I used to care about the label of Christian. But I've learned that labels- be they political, religious, physical, etc. are more often just a kind of costume that people put on to give themselves a sense of meaning/value/belonging.

A Christian by logic, would be one who follows or espouses the life and teachings of the man known as Jesus Christ. Each one of us has to measure our own interpretation of whether a person who claims a label is doing so because it actually defines or disguises who they really are.

[E_Pluribus_Unitarian]

22. Someone should ask Santorum...

if Lent is found anywhere in the scriptures? He wouldn't want to practice anything that wasn't scriptural, would he? In this case, by his understanding, seems that he's either not a good, scriptural Christian or is not a good Catholic. Dogma's a bitch, ain't it, Slick Rick?

[Jamaal510]

23. I think Santorum, along with the RW fundies, have been possessed by the Devil.

Much of what they say and do contradict with the teachings of Christ. Christ taught everyone to care for the poor and to love our neighbors, yet they constantly accuse Obama of being a Muslim as if that's a bad thing, they oppose equal rights for gays, and they demonize raising taxes on the so-called Job Creators instead of cutting safety net programs.

[dmallind]

25. And he advised people to do that as individuals, not governments

You'll find that's the standard RW answer - and they have charitable giving and volunteer data to show they do so at least as much as liberals. Sadly JC was silent on politics and spoke exclusively about people - sometimes espousing more right wimg ideas and sometimes more left.

[CJCRANE]

26. Do you think that if governments can help more people

more efficiently that Jesus would be against that?

[LeftishBrit]

29. In that case, why should it be the government's role to pass laws against abortion and homosexuality

The right-wingers can't have it both ways.

Since governments of the modern sort didn't exist in Jesus' time, or for centuries afterwards, it is hardly possible to take anything in the New Testament as a detailed prescription for government. But if one does take it as such, why is it OK for governments to ban abortion (about which the Gospels say nothing) but not to help poor people?

Also: while this does not describe all right-wing voters, there is a distinct tendency for the right wing to take a mean-spirited attitude to poor people; to think that their problems are their own fault, and that they should be forced to 'stand on their own feet'. This is an individual-level, not just a government attitude.

[dmallind]

24. The EXACT arguments more than one liberal believer here made in reverse

Wouldn't a faith based on a God speaking personally on matters of faith be far less likely to be misconstrued (whichever side is doing that) than it apparently is?

[LeftishBrit]

28. Rick Santorum is scum of the earth.

And for that matter, he is obviously doing some 'interpreting' of his 'document', which says nothing about abortion or contraception, and very little about homosexuality.