Religion
Related: About this forumAbout my controversial "speak for yourself" post...
Well, I guess it was controversial. A Host of this group has linked to it at least 3 times now, in responses to other DU'ers, including some of my fellow atheists.
I'm not sure why. But frankly, I'm a little tired of running into that post over and over, and would like to explain why I posted it.
Here's a link to the full thread on 19 Jan 2012, so you can read it yourself: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12186646
My post says exactly what I feel. I find the Liberal Xian god just as unlikely - and hilarious - as the Conservative Xian god.
To put it in context, that post followed a number of threads about a "new feeling" in Religion. Also a long thread in the Meta-Discussion group about making the Religion group "a nicer place."
To me, this looked like an attempt to hijack the Religion group as a safe haven for mostly religiosos - especially of the Lib'rul Xian variety. I have posted on that subject several times and won't repeat myself here.
So why am I so touchy on that subject? Because, in my many years at DU, I have seen the non-believing minority thrown under the bus MANY times by the believing majority. And this looked like a repeat.
Along with the other usual suspects - gays, uppity women, racial minorities - this is most likely to happen to non-believers in election years.
Like this year - when DU Xians worry that non-believers are costing the party votes. Though it can happen any old time the believers perceive a threat from the non-believers. Which has always reminded me of Josef Stalin's USSR perceiving a threat from Finland. But I digress.
For a really bad example, let's jump in the Wayback Machine and set it for 2006.
One of the biggest liberal Dem sites on the web, Raw Story, ran this article. It caused a firestorm here on DU (and the Web) that raged for weeks.
For the impatient, it is literally a call to purge non-believers from the Democratic Party:
The left's own religious whackjobs - Melinda Barton - Raw Story columnist
The religious nutballs on the extreme right have kept us rational lefties so busy that we've neglected an important although onerous duty -- cleaning the atheist whackjobs out of our own attic, the extreme left...
The article concluded: ...the greatest danger the atheist extremist poses now is to the integrity and success of progressive movements. If we are to truly uphold the liberal ideals of freedom and liberty, we must stand against extremists of all stripes who would threaten those ideals. Secondly, in a nation comprised predominantly of those who believe in some sort of supreme being, our success as a movement depends on disavowing the atheist extremist as a legitimate voice of the left. Finally, our commitment to truth demands we counter the fallacies being perpetuated in our name.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/The_lefts_own_religious_whackjobs_0422.html
Atheists asked for a simple apology from Raw Story. We didn't get it. R.S. dug in its heels and stood by the article as written.
"Well, so what?" Some of you are probably saying. "That was 6 years ago, you pathetic old geezer!"
Er...except that in 2008, non-believers were outright banned from a Democratic Party "values and morals" rally. That ban came directly from the CEO of the Democratic National Convention Committee - and Pentecostal minister - Leah Daughtry:
http://atheism.about.com/b/2008/08/23/leah-daughtry-atheists-arent-welcome-in-the-democratic-party.htm
To conclude - FINALLY! Yes, I will continue to fight the common enemy and support the agendas we discuss so often here on DU. But I probably won't sit down and sing "Kum-Ba-Yah" with the believers. Though I'll be perfectly happy to sing "The Preacher and the Slave" (a/k/a "Pie In The Sky When You Die, It's A Lie" .
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Well Done.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)According to the new DU3 structure:
Post something the group hosts do not like and your are banned...some hosts have used that power IMO to avenge personal slights and created all sorts of hate and discontent. Other hosts are treating their groups like DU2 forums and doing next to nothing.
The level of capriciousness I have seen is not a good thing, but Earl and Skinner are determined to see if things balance out over time. Until then...
Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #3)
eomer This message was self-deleted by its author.
iris27
(1,951 posts)forums became groups, the group collectively voted on an *open* SOP.
Other groups exist that can serve as safe havens for DU believers. This group is not one of them.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)at least in their most recent incarnations, its just that the Republicans are much more open about it, and the theology for them is much more extreme. The Democratic Party is obviously not a secular party, though they sometimes try to bill themselves as such. Neither party, nor their members, respect separation of church and state except when its convenient for them.
ON EDIT: To illustrate the difference, the Republicans want to hang atheists on the gallows, the Democrats want to bleed us dry with a thousand paper cuts, in either case, we are still dead.
Response to onager (Original post)
Brettongarcia This message was self-deleted by its author.
Brettongarcia
(2,262 posts)Why give the (false) impression that Democrats are absolutely opposed to all religion?
Won't that lose a LOT of votes?
Should the Religion forum, be an atheist form, very often? Now and then perhaps. But...
eomer
(3,845 posts)It's a discussion forum so... people could enter into discussions and post their thoughts in reply to each other.
The impression created would then be one of people who appreciate and exercise one (maybe a couple) of the most important freedoms our nation was founded on.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)THIS group is for the general discussion of religion and religious issues, from all perspectives. If you want an echo chamber, try one of the safe-haven groups.
PVnRT
(13,178 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Brettongarcia
(2,262 posts)The "safe haven" groups are probably guessable? Like the "prayer" section?
rug
(82,333 posts)The only thing frowned upon is stupidity.
eomer
(3,845 posts)Go to the group and at the top there is an "About this group" button. Then you can see the Statement of Purpose, which should make it obvious that a group is a safe haven whenever that is the case.
The Statement of Purpose for the Religion group:
So clearly it's not a safe haven for believers to be shielded from hearing disagreement from non-believers.
onager
(9,356 posts)You and your doppelganger the 'Umble One, of course.